Guest antic Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 outside of psy, when it comes to artists who already have it made and are rich as a donkeys asshole, then i say its fair game to download the shit. but also, if it werent for the internet and downloading any psy album, i wouldnt have found out about ANY PSY AT ALL also, i think its about the music. not the money. that means that a true artist into the MUSIC does now care about the fuckin money they make, but about how many people are moveed by their work. that should be the greatest reward. if they cared about the money, they would pull an infected mushroom. and bitch about wanting to make movie soundtracks and shit. and move to hollywood. and get a boner for madonna... Not this stupid argument again! If you want your music to be of good quality, then the artist should be able to spend as much time as he has to to write it. How can he do so, if he can't make a living of his art? If he has to go working in an office 9 to 5. How much time would be left for him to come up with something new and creative, assuming he's not dead-tired after all-days work? When will people understand that most artists in our scene do not want to get rich!? Every sensible person should come to the conclusion that in a scene so relatively small & underground it is simply impossible! They just want to have a modest, normal life without having to be worried all the time if they'll be able to pay the rent or buy food for their family... Writing music is a job as any other. If you're good at it then you should be paid for it. If you suck, go find another one. Period. IM are so big because they're good at making music, even if you and I and many others find the direction they've taken to be a bad one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 With that said, I think most labels could definitely do a whole lot more even with the 4 pages they are using already as most releases I buy now are practically empty inside. No interesting text, nothing much new art wise. It sucks, doesn't it? I remember for example Billy Cosmosis writing about all the tunes on Synergy - what was the inspiration, how they were created etc... That was lovely! But now, most CDs do not even have credits or 'thanks to' list. I wonder why is that? Do they not have friends, do they just make the music because they can, without even thinking about it, is there nothing they'd like to share with their audience? I think the empty booklets pretty much reflect the state of the scene nowadays... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted April 22, 2007 Author Share Posted April 22, 2007 I've only ever downloaded to see if I like something. I'm in the 'downloaded music sounds crap compared to CD's' camp but, anyway, that's another topic altogether. You asked - Maybe I didn't understand the question but it sounded like you were asking would I buy an album from a local store if it was half the online price. Yes and since you answered yes to my question i presumed you dont buy much buy at the normal price that they sell cd's at nowadays and prefer to download unless you are getting it for half the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 solution - artists/labels release their stuff on p2p/torrents aswell, ofcourse as 320mp3 at first, and people who like that music donate to artists account, as much as they think would be fair only problem - people have to evolve to such level where they could be able to go and donate for a p2p release. Dream on... donations don't work. In an ideal world, sure... but not in this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Dream on... donations don't work. In an ideal world, sure... but not in this one.hence the: only problem - people have to evolve to such level where they could be able to go and donate for a p2p release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlancer Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I will be sincere. I only download. I don't buy. But don’t judge the following from this. The thing is I have read this thread and there's nothing mentioned here, to make me want to buy (regardless if i do so or not). I don't care if i have it on cd or on mp3. I don't care about music quality so much (mp3 192kbps is more than enough for me, and most mp3's are of better quality). I don't care about having the booklet nor about the cover, i can have the cover in a jpeg file in the albums folder. It's the same as having my photos in files and not printed. About the artists that can't make music if they don't have money. Piracy exists for years now, i don't see any decrease in the music that is released. Quite the contrary i'd say. There's so much music out there, that my whole lifetime is not enough to hear everything. And yes, there are many quality releases among them (speaking for music as a whole, not only for psytrance) With that said, even if X artists stops making music, there are a lot more waiting in line. Again, piracy exists for years now, artists knew the situation and they knew what to expect. They kept making music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daybrain Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 piracy, whats the solution ? a part of the solution would be to forget about the term piracy and call it Copyright Infringement. (for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 About the artists that can't make music if they don't have money. Piracy exists for years now, i don't see any decrease in the music that is released. Quite the contrary i'd say. There's so much music out there, that my whole lifetime is not enough to hear everything. And yes, there are many quality releases among them (speaking for music as a whole, not only for psytrance) They haven't done with ur help then! Do u really think if everybody did like u there would be that many releases....??? Its not a healthy attitude more a radiculous one if u ask me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlancer Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 They haven't done with ur help then! Do u really think if everybody did like u there would be that many releases....??? Its not a healthy attitude more a radiculous one if u ask me! Man, you didn't get me. It doesn't matter if it is ridiculous or healthy or anything. It's a fact, a fact that doesn't give downloaders a reason to buy. That's what i'm trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Dream on... donations don't work. In an ideal world, sure... but not in this one. Watch the simpsons episode where homer takes lisa to the museum & there is a suggested donation of $5. That is what would happen in reality! People download because they can. People like freebies! What really pisses me off is when downloaders who never buy any music or pay for parties complain that such & such an artist changed their style. Newsflash, they are not going to make music for the people who are stealing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rino Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I don't care if i have it on cd or on mp3. I don't care about music quality so much (mp3 192kbps is more than enough for me, and most mp3's are of better quality). I don't care about having the booklet nor about the cover, i can have the cover in a jpeg file in the albums folder. It's the same as having my photos in files and not printed. About the artists that can't make music if they don't have money. Piracy exists for years now, i don't see any decrease in the music that is released. Quite the contrary i'd say. There's so much music out there, that my whole lifetime is not enough to hear everything. And yes, there are many quality releases among them (speaking for music as a whole, not only for psytrance) With that said, even if X artists stops making music, there are a lot more waiting in line. Again, piracy exists for years now, artists knew the situation and they knew what to expect. They kept making music. You got a point there. Actually, the bottom line is that most people don't give a shit about the cover art and all, plus most people listen to their music behind their own four walls. And MP3, neverminding its inferior sound quality, is more than satisfactory. And yes, there is so much music out there, that not is a lifetime insufficient to listen to it all, but it's too short to even find it all. Of coarse, not that it justifies downloading... And yeah, artists are conscious of the piracy issue. Or that I hope at least. But they kept making music because they chose to keep on making it, and because they know there is a fanbase who actually will buy their releases. And personally I don't mind that much the whole downloading vs. CD feud, but what seriously pisses me off is when you for example have an artist or band you are really fond of. You really consider yourself to be their fan, and their music really means something to you. And then, people don't have the decency to show some minimal respect and give those same artists at least something in return. Those miserable 10-15 euros for an album... Is that too much? I'm not saying that music fans should go around buying entire albums because they like a single track on it, but at least show some respect. Man, somebody put forth an effort to make all that music available, at least show your respect where it is due, or where you think it should be do. Because by downloading, you show 0 respect. Oh yeah, and of coarse artists can make music without (or limited amounts of) money. Some of the greatest musical albums were recorded in basements, sleeping rooms, etc., but that is not the issue here... The money serves for paying bills and buying food and clothing. And when you're trying to make an honest living by working hard, and certain individuals then blatantly rape your work, that once again, just sucks! And all those viewpoints like: "Well, they can always quit producing if they don't like it, and find another job!" WTF? Why on earth would anybody quit doing a job he/she really likes and thouroughly enjoy, and replace it with something else, that would give you financial stability, but leave you utterly sad or whatever on a more personal level? Man, you didn't get me. It doesn't matter if it is ridiculous or healthy or anything. It's a fact, a fact that doesn't give downloaders a reason to buy. That's what i'm trying to say.Yeah, unfortunately donwnloaders obviously don't have a reason to buy. And I don't blame 'em, as we cannot all view music in the same way. I, for example, just cannot reduce my music to a bunch of files and folders ordered on my hard disk. From my wievpoint, that is just lame. I am not saying that makes me better than you or anybody else, or viceversa for that matter, but only that I like to have CDs on my shelf. I like to feel them, I like the shiny discs, I like the superior sound quality once I play my music loud as f**k on my living room speakers and all, and I especially like those good ol' vinyl big covers and that background sound the vinyl produces once the needle hits it. Marvellous! That is something MP3s still cannot do for me. But those are only my two cents, that nowadays most people couldn't care less about! I do however use and have some MP3 music, but hopefully only for a short time usage, until I get the real thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 ...and would you?Yeah. Providing a CD is genuine and legal I'll buy it from wherever is cheapest. Yes and since you answered yes to my question i presumed you dont buy much buy at the normal price that they sell cd's at nowadays and prefer to download unless you are getting it for half the price. I buy lots of albums, usually at knockdown prices from places like Amazon, eBay, cdwow, play.com etc. but would rather pay full retail prices than download poor quality copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Man, you didn't get me. It doesn't matter if it is ridiculous or healthy or anything. It's a fact, a fact that doesn't give downloaders a reason to buy. That's what i'm trying to say. But then again thats only because some people actually buy stuff. If nobody did there would be music, but u probably wouldn't be seeing that much. I just think its a very spoiled way of justifying it... Although I understand why people wanna leech, cus its free and its easy to don't care about it, but I just don't like it. I can also understand why people don't wanna buy all they listen too (I do this my self sometimes) cus its just too expensive for mortal people, but that another story imho... I hear what u say you don't care if the quality sucks and u don't get a physical product thats fair enough, but still if u really like an artist wouldn't you wanna help the guys/guys making some more music? Or don't you care about that either? Its an honest question, not a sarcastic remark btw I'm just trying to understand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 And personally I don't mind that much the whole downloading vs. CD feud, but what seriously pisses me off is when you for example have an artist or band you are really fond of. You really consider yourself to be their fan, and their music really means something to you. And then, people don't have the decency to show some minimal respect and give those same artists at least something in return. Those miserable 10-15 euros for an album... Is that too much? I'm not saying that music fans should go around buying entire albums because they like a single track on it, but at least show some respect. Man, somebody put forth an effort to make all that music available, at least show your respect where it is due, or where you think it should be do. Because by downloading, you show 0 respect. Oh yeah, and of coarse artists can make music without (or limited amounts of) money. Some of the greatest musical albums were recorded in basements, sleeping rooms, etc., but that is not the issue here... The money serves for paying bills and buying food and clothing. And when you're trying to make an honest living by working hard, and certain individuals then blatantly rape your work, that once again, just sucks! And all those viewpoints like: "Well, they can always quit producing if they don't like it, and find another job!" WTF? Why on earth would anybody quit doing a job he/she really likes and thouroughly enjoy, and replace it with something else, that would give you financial stability, but leave you utterly sad or whatever on a more personal level? thats the exact extension of what i was wanting to say ... support the artist by contributing whatever minimum you can so they do not stop doing what they do best .. and cutting piracy is the first step and making the price of cds affordable so more people can buy . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlancer Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Ok, let's say i respect the artists, i want to support them etc The thing is, times have changed. It's not as if there are 10 albums every month. As i said, theres sooooooooo much music out there, if i wanted to support each and everyone of the artists i like, i would be broke instantly Music has become massive. And since it's so easy to obtain, you can hear new music everyday. Yes, there are albums you will hear many times and not throw them away, but still there are too many. Yea, i woke up today let's hear a happy morning tune, then i am tired let's put some chilling stuff. Afterwards i am n the car with friends, let's play something uplifting shit. Relaxing at night? Some melodic idm tracks will work nice. Or should i have beatless ambient playing will i'm sleeping? (and i could go on foreva...) You will say "support a few ones you choose". But then how will i hear all the other stuff? How about the few tracks i liked from that album though the rest of it was crap? I'll have to download. So i'm still a pirate, and piracy continious. Times have changed and so did the way we see music. EDIT: Oh, and something i forgot to say You do realize ofcourse that a great percentage (and an important one i'd say) are young people, student's who don't have an income except from their allowance. I don't expect them to buy cd's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 EDIT: Oh, and something i forgot to say You do realize ofcourse that a great percentage (and an important one i'd say) are young people, student's who don't have an income except from their allowance. I don't expect them to buy cd's That's just stupid. I don't go to the store and steal food or go to the street and steal a car only because it is there, but I can't afford it. When you steal music, you steal someone's (hard) work for which he has the right to be paid (as I explained few posts back). If you can't afford something, you can't have it. It IS very simple, but seems beyond comprehension for some... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Such an analogy doesn't work. If you could download food for free, wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Yeah agree with that there are too many releases to buy them all (obviously) and that its nice to have variety of all kinds of music, as we have becomes used to in these time of mass information... I don't buy all my music (as I already said)... but and yes there is a but... It still does not change that you never will support favorite artist, label or what ever and yes as rino already said, u would pay them 0 respect.... is that OK? But maybe its because u don't have any favorites or doesn't really like the music, I dunno? And by the way this has nothing to with changing time... There has always been poor teens, I bought CDs when I was one, but not as many as now though, even though I am still poor, and its all about what priority u give it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Such an analogy doesn't work. If you could download food for free, wouldn't you? It doesn't work the way YOU understand music, apparently When you 'buy' music you don't buy the actual, physical something. Music is intangible, no matter if it is recorded on a vinyl, CD or comes in a form of mp3 file. People listen to music to make them feel better, to improve their mood, to have fun with their friends... You do not buy a product, you buy 'good time' and no matter how it was delivered to you, you should pay for it. How come you pay for the internet, the cable-tv, the theatre, the books and all other types of entertainment and you see nothing wrong with it, but when it comes to music you all think you should get it for free? That artist should be making music to please you, not to make a living? I don't even want to mention about 'respect' in that context, because it sounds like a bad joke here... [remark: I used 'you' several times, but it is not directed at you directly Basilisk - just a general observation] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 EDIT: Oh, and something i forgot to say You do realize ofcourse that a great percentage (and an important one i'd say) are young people, student's who don't have an income except from their allowance. I don't expect them to buy cd's When I was a poor student I still bought quite a lot of CDs & records. Can't quite remember how I could afford them & go to parties but it probably had something to do with working in the summer & part time while at school! People who download I always think just aren't that into music, which is fine but I struggle to understand it! I love music with every fibre of my being. I love people who are more talented than me & can make it & I would like to show my support to them. That's just stupid. I don't go to the store and steal food or go to the street and steal a car only because it is there, but I can't afford it. When you steal music, you steal someone's (hard) work for which he has the right to be paid (as I explained few posts back). If you can't afford something, you can't have it. It IS very simple, but seems beyond comprehension for some... Capitalism? I'm a firm supporter of capitalism. People expecting artists to produce music for free are communists (Communism - Nice in Theory, not in Reality) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Capitalism? I'm a firm supporter of capitalism. People expecting artists to produce music for free are communists (Communism - Nice in Theory, not in Reality) This meaning that artist giving away music for free is communists???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 This meaning that artist giving away music for free is communists???? No, artists being expected to give away their music for free is!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 When I was a poor student I still bought quite a lot of CDs & records. Can't quite remember how I could afford them & go to parties but it probably had something to do with working in the summer & part time while at school! +1. Same here, apart from the fact that even then I could only afford 1-2CDs a month tops, but I guess that's the relative prices issue I mentioned in other threads (the CD costs the same, but people earn different money in different countries) Capitalism? I'm a firm supporter of capitalism. People expecting artists to produce music for free are communists Yeah, I guess most of us live in capitalist countries so those rules apply to us, don't they? People have the guts to claim they have the right to free music only because they can get away with stealing it so easily... But I'm realist in this matter - if there is an opportunity, people will use it. But for God's sake do not come here with stupid excuses like "artists should create for free, because only then the music is 'true'" or "I don't feel guilty downloading, because there's too much music out there and I can't afford it all" or "I download the music and spread it to my friends and maybe some of them will get hooked and start buying"... Yeah, right! Simply have the balls to admit that you're stilling someone's intellectual property and you don't care about it. [remark: again, this was not directed at you Joseph, because I know you're one crazy music lover in a best possible meaning of this word ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlancer Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 well, i'm not a firm supporter of capitalism anyway. The fact that i live in a capitalistic country doesn't mean that i agree with all it's rules. In fact i disagree with most of them. Will i follow them? Depends. It's not possible to not follow the system. But when there's a chance not to, i take it. Ofcourse downloading is stealing. I never argued with that. And downloaders don't care much about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 well, i'm not a firm supporter of capitalism anyway. The fact that i live in a capitalistic country doesn't mean that i agree with all it's rules. In fact i disagree with most of them. Will i follow them? Depends. It's not possible to not follow the system. But when there's a chance not to, i take it. Ofcourse downloading is stealing. I never argued with that. And downloaders don't care much about it. Haha, you see - even now you're unable to say "Yes, I'm a thief and I don't care" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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