TRohr Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 Hey everyone, I am really glad I found this forum and all of you cool people. My story is the same as a lot of yours probably... to keep it short, I live in the middle of an extremely sheltered city... I had a trip one night and stumbled upon Ott's Hallucinogen In Dub mixes at the peak of it. My mind was blown away and now I would like to share psychedelic trance with everyone I come in contact with. I need help though.... So far my setup is... -Numark DXM 09 three channel mixer -Alesis Multimix 8 -Axiom 49 midi controller -Kaos Pad 3 -Decent laptop with a Gigaport external USB soundcard -Reaktor -Cubase LE -FL Studios XXL Production edition -Live 6.0.1 -ACID Pro -Bandstand -Home Studio -Traktor -Virtual DJ -Mixmeister -Mixed In Key -a ridiculous amount of samples and SFX's -a ridiculous amount of psychedelic trance So far things have been going well.... I prefer to DJ because I know it is going to be years before I can rise to the likes of artists such as Mycel, Children of the Bong, Eskimo etc. I am very happy with my mixing style and feel it is very distinct; I know what I want the audience to feel and I think I do a good job of relaying those feelings through my mixes. I am not happy with merely DJ'ing though. I think DJ'ing is a sorry excuse to get out of producing ones own music because, truthfully, anyone and their grandmother can DJ. So I tried to step it up a notch.... I went out and rented about 80 SciFi movies and created all sorts of fun samples to relay my stories to the audience a bit more distinctly but I am still not happy. I am wanting to DJ but I would like to create ambient sound-scape's and new beats between tracks so that my mixes become truly personal. I haven't the faintest knowledge about music theory but plan on researching it in extreme depth for the next few months (who knows maybe the rest of my life) to get a general idea of music notation, music structures, maybe some history etc. I also have a general idea of the structure of a psychedelic trance track and how things are introduced throughout the song which I think helps a little.... In the end I need to know where I should start. I guess to be more specific I need to know where to find all sorts of mind bending sounds/voices/bass. I have already read through much of this forum and the web regarding sound synthesis and I have decided that I am going to dive into Reaktor and tomorrow I think I am going to go buy a MicroKorg Synthesizer/Vocoder to create custom voices/sounds. Also, I am sure studying music theory will help me quite a bit in piecing all of the sounds and things that I have synthesized together.... I will probably stick with Ableton because I love the interface and it seems like it has quite a bit to offer..... I wish I could be more specific if I haven't already been specific enough.... How do you all start production? So far I just start by smoking a huge joint then mix music till I get a really powerful feeling. I take that feeling and then fine tune it... but as far as producing music to fit that feeling.... Should I go into Ableton, create a beat, create some melodies, create a whole bunch of squelchy fun sounds and then work on getting it to flow together? What order should I do things in? Melodies, basslines, fun squelchy sounds? Squelchy sounds, basslines, melodies? Maybe I do in fact have what it takes but I need to play a bit more.... Should I buy a MicroKorg? Where is "The Easy Button?" Would I be fine sticking with Ableton and Reaktor (though I do love playing with hardware)? Keep in mind that my setup needs to remain portable.... I can't afford nor do I want to own a full sized production station/workstation (or at least at this time) because I am going to be studying abroad in Tokyo, Japan for an entire year starting in two weeks.... Thanks for everyone who has read through my rantings to this point.... I hope you all have some advice for me because all of it is greatly appreciated. Thanks~. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric blue Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 i dont agree with what you think about djing. "I am not happy with merely DJ'ing though. I think DJ'ing is a sorry excuse to get out of producing ones own music because, truthfully, anyone and their grandmother can DJ." producers make music (i am talking about the ones that use their own samples and stuff) djs mix them into parties and ritualistic gatherings. both are not easy... a more physics biased aproach to music may be what you need, by the way. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRohr Posted August 26, 2007 Author Share Posted August 26, 2007 producers make music (i am talking about the ones that use their own samples and stuff) djs mix them into parties and ritualistic gatherings. both are not easy... I agree with you in that DJ'ing can be pretty difficult.... I use Virtual DJ without a controller (just my mouse) and having to create seamless loops for the next two tracks, match pitch for all of them without anyone noticing, match their beats, fly to my mixer to adjust EQ levels, jump over to my (dj) mixer to adjust EQ levels, fade in the next two tracks using various effects and cutting out bass levels to really get ones heart racing while flipping back and forth with the crossfader the entire time to make it seem like the new voices are part of the track, then somehow managing to jump to my KP3 to throw in a sample or two out of thousands to fit the moment (using more effects that you thought ever existed) to create a really interesting buildup or breakdown in about 10-30 seconds isn't exactly easy. Soon i'll be working a MicroKorg into it all somehow too.... Then having to do it consistently yet with enough variance that it doesn't get old.... All I was really saying was that these days it's easy for anyone to call themselves a DJ. I don't know if you have used Mixed in Key or MixMeister fusion before (sadly even Virtual DJ) but it adds seamless beat matching, seamless looping, a dummy proof auto fade in case things go south (or in case all you want to do for the night is throw a bunch of songs into the playlist and let it DJ for you the entire night), BPM detectors so all of your tracks can be harmonized and flow well no matter how you mix them.... So I would like to really distinguish myself somehow. I figure producing my own music or soundscapes would do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike A Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 a. don't buy anything until you really thing that this is the next thing you need in order to make your music better. b. get monitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric blue Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 I agree with you in that DJ'ing can be pretty difficult.... I use Virtual DJ without a controller (just my mouse) and having to create seamless loops for the next two tracks, match pitch for all of them without anyone noticing, match their beats, fly to my mixer to adjust EQ levels, jump over to my (dj) mixer to adjust EQ levels, fade in the next two tracks using various effects and cutting out bass levels to really get ones heart racing while flipping back and forth with the crossfader the entire time to make it seem like the new voices are part of the track, then somehow managing to jump to my KP3 to throw in a sample or two out of thousands to fit the moment (using more effects that you thought ever existed) to create a really interesting buildup or breakdown in about 10-30 seconds isn't exactly easy. Soon i'll be working a MicroKorg into it all somehow too.... Then having to do it consistently yet with enough variance that it doesn't get old.... All I was really saying was that these days it's easy for anyone to call themselves a DJ. I don't know if you have used Mixed in Key or MixMeister fusion before (sadly even Virtual DJ) but it adds seamless beat matching, seamless looping, a dummy proof auto fade in case things go south (or in case all you want to do for the night is throw a bunch of songs into the playlist and let it DJ for you the entire night), BPM detectors so all of your tracks can be harmonized and flow well no matter how you mix them.... So I would like to really distinguish myself somehow. I figure producing my own music or soundscapes would do the trick. wow.. i had 3 cd players and a mixer.. thats all when i was playing.. i have a different view on djing by the way, less technical, more spiritual. there is a set (from good old times, lol) in my signiture if you re interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRohr Posted August 26, 2007 Author Share Posted August 26, 2007 there is a set (from good old times, lol) in my signiture if you re interested. Ah, thank you very much for mentioning that set. I know exactly what I am going to do tonight. I only listened to the first minute or so of it... it's so brutal! I'm going to chill on my trampoline, stargazing, while listening to this stuff with some vegetables~. I don't think it deserves any less. Also, I think I have found my "easy button." I went and bought A MicroKorg today, and though I am not creating my own instruments/sounds... and I am sure Reaktor has soooooo much more to offer if I would just sit down and learn how to use it (... I do like my hardware though~) I figure this thing will be an excellent learning tool for sound synthesis. It's pretty much fool proof and the possibilities are endless it seems. I plan on syncing it up with my KP3 as well for more sample/synthesis debauchery... more or less like this guy->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEucKtMahjI. Oh well... gotta just give it lots of time and experimentation I guess. I'm probably off on the right foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric blue Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 your comments would bennice to hear.. and again, a little dive into physics would do the trick.. mechanically at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verb Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Get Decent Listening. to me it's so weird that people settle for the sound they have at home. they can just by rearranging some furniture, putting some cash into rockwool and other stuff make their listeningroom so much more enjoyable. to the point where you're actualy stunned by music and sit in rapture. thing is, if you're into music, in anyway, listening, making etc, a good lsitening enviorment comes as number one. Then it's off. if you don't know what you're listening to because of bad room acoustics, it's quite hard to move from there at all. Get yourself decent monitors. Personaly id recomend something rather alternative to what i think most would recomend, id say buy yourself a Class T amp (rather new copyrighted to tripathchipsets) for 140 $ (trends audio not tntaudio) or build one yourself thats alot better and alot cheaper from http://www.41hz.com/ and then find yourself a really good DIY passive studiomonitor kit. there are lots out there if you just look for em. or buy passive speakers. The class T style of amplifying is really cheap. and really fucking good. im talking 1000$ good but at 140$ price. and thats a better amp then you get in msot active speakers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyman2.0 Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 if you dont know basic subtractive synthesis reaktor is probly a bad place to start unless you want to spend the next six months learning reaktor and drinking alot of coffee. i would say start with albino, cosmosis posted some nice patches on his site and you would be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRohr Posted August 27, 2007 Author Share Posted August 27, 2007 if you dont know basic subtractive synthesis reaktor is probly a bad place to start unless you want to spend the next six months learning reaktor and drinking alot of coffee. i would say start with albino, cosmosis posted some nice patches on his site and you would be good to go. I'll definitely give it a go. I have some tutorials that I pulled off of the NI forums/homepage for Reaktor but I doubt they'll help much (I haven't read them yet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffel Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 em. i forgot the question, but i think u need a host for coordinating the synths. just try fl, ableton and logic. the rest u listed is a djs' crap for mixin' trax producer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needle ninja Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 It sounds like you know what you're doing. Most people start out as DJs, you will find it is good to keep on djing. If you want to make your own "personal" sounds get an analogue sythesizer. See my little phatty review somewhere far below. I think you get insperation by hearing sounds so listen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRohr Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 ...If you want to make your own "personal" sounds get an analogue sythesizer. See my little phatty review somewhere far below. I think you get insperation by hearing sounds so listen... I actually went and bought a MicroKorg and am absolutely loving it. I haven't been able to synth anything really amazing yet, but I enjoy playing with it. Unfortunatley I don't know if i'm going to be able to keep it.... I have decided that I am going to dive into Reaktor for the next year... it sounds like that's the way to go when it comes to synthesizing ridiculous voices/sounds/instruments etc for psychedelic trance~. I am going to be traveling abroad for quite awhile, so having all that power on my laptop will be nice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 I haven't tried Reaktor but that was my first instinct when I wanted to get some good software. I read a lot of reviews and ended up with Reason. The reviews for Reaktor generally stated that the learning curve was too steep and analytical for a lot of people. Reason got good reviews regarding the learning curve, but I find, after a year and a half that it is powerful yet limited. If I could do it again I would get something that was more complex and more open to technology, but also not so crazy. Which is why I purchased Cubase not too long ago. I'm still hesitant to really dive into it because I'm so comfortable with Reason, and having the new version of Reason coming out in a couple months may make it even more difficult to break away. What you start with may be what you end up staying with, so make the choice wisely. Get something you enjoy, but also something you'll have years to grow into. Also, there are lots of odd programs out there that are not top-shelf names, but that do some very interesting things, if you're interested in being unique rather than making music on a grid. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeros Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 and I have decided that I am going to dive into Reaktor and tomorrow I think I am going to go buy a MicroKorg Synthesizer/Vocoder to create custom voices/sounds. You may be going the wrong way here. Start Small Reaktor is possibly the most complicated synth out there, not to mention so CPU intensive you'll maybe only have 3-4 instances of it in one composition before maxing out your CPU. Reaktor has amazing presets but there is so much functionality and mini-synths inside it that if you were to create your own sound it would take you days. Modulating existing presets into new ones is also a challenge. I would not delve into buying hard synths or producing with the cutting edge of software technology until you have learned and mastered the basics as if they were an instrument. You hear about pro artists using these complicated systems so much because 1) they have messed with this shit since they were 12 and 2) they like to brag, and this stuff is their hobby and passion so they'll get their hands on everything they can play with. If you are just starting, building a studio like this is not the way to go - start with softsynths, they are very easy (compared to hard ones) and all the tallent that revolves around production is learning to translate what you come up with in your head to come up into the program - that means when you imagine a sound you should know exactly what you have to do to hear that sound out of your speakers without having to even think about it. If you want quick results this is what i recommend, starting small. Pick one of your many acquired softwares or peices of hardware and stick with it - for a year even. Then when you learn all you can out of those peices, you can integrate new things into your work flow - if you master one of them you have mastered all of them. The other vital peice of knowledge is what works for one person might not work for others - so if you really take to heart what I just said you can even disregard everything I've said here, and that too could be the best advice to give The best thing to do really is do what makes the most sense to you. Buying all of these things and trying to use all of them in your productions doesn't make very much sense if you still haven't mastered the techniques behind production, mixing (composition mixing), synths, FX, and the most vital of all, music composition. For a starting synth I also recommend albino, 80% of the things I compose use that software, its very flexible and extremely powerful if you know how to use it (Cybernetika has invented some mindblowing FX synths unique only to his darkpsy music) Albino will make no sense at first but play with alot of presets and you'll get the idea of how it works - kind of peculiar to learn but really powerful once you master it. As for software you will probably get the quickest results with FL. Picking what softare to use is tricky though since you'll likely stick with it forever and detest the others since you'll have to re-learn their UI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I'd recommend following synogen's post here. Start out easy. Altho you've allready bought all this equipment. Eventually tho you will learn to use it all. It just takes time. However I wouldn't recommend starting out with Reaktor. It's like buying a spaceship, but never even driven a car before. I like the enthusiasm, how u said you were going to work on it for the whole next year. Usually when people start out with it, they realise how little they know, and how little they can accomplish because of that and then they just quit the whole idea of making music. But if you really want to start out with Reaktor, I'd recommend you read some basic intro books / manuals for it before attempting to do something big by yourself. That way you can start to understand the whole concept of this synth maker and slowly start to build up your own synths with it. Music making can be a lot of fun, but sometimes it can just piss you off when the software isn't doing what you're asking it to do. Don't let it put you down, if you're stuck, review what you've done and try to find an answer to your problems, don't give up . Hope it turns all well. Good luck with music making m8! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike A Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 they are very easy (compared to hard ones) :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeros Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 oh lol, unintentional pun. Was referring to hardsynths Haha To touch up on what malevol3nt said, it will be a very frustrating process, if you aren't prepared to blow absolute ass for the entire first year, suck for the 2nd, and be average for the 3rd, producing might not be the thing for you. The only way to be good is to do it so much that it all becomes second nature, then - like an instrument, the ideas will flow into composition and you won't have to think about it. Until then, its like learning the most complicated instrument in the world - and the way you have your studio, you're setting yourself up to learn 10 of the most complicated instruments ever, it can be a daunting process. But its very rewarding and there is a euphoria that comes out of producing, I get it every time...every time a track breaks through and starts to sound complete, and you actually have accomplished a track which you will dig very much , perhaps more than other people since you're the one that makes it. Its a really strong feeling, its almost like you're feeling the glowing smiles and fun of the thousands of people partying to your song in the future, and you feel that all at once. The better it is the better the response you know your song will get... Plus its just so much damn fun! I love producing, its the best way by far to vent creativity and inspiration, more rewarding and enjoyable than any traditional art. Whether you make it or not is just up to your own detirmination and inspiration, even you first tracks are fun and exciting even though they suck. There is a nice loop hole you can take if you want your first tracks to sound decent and not suck, yet still learn from them - try making some ambient style tracks, or even simpler some soundscapes. Simple stuff but it'll teach you the same concepts from producing goa or psy. Then build your way up into including beats and basslines. Word of advice, never try to replicate someone elses melodies or remix a track. I don't say that because its wrong to, but because you will never get it as good as the original artist, it'll only dissapoint you if you keep trying to make hallucinogen - LSD remixes. You can't share the same inspiration as other artists, its best to use your own and your own only. Do this and you're guarunteed your own style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRohr Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 ...I like the enthusiasm, how u said you were going to work on it for the whole next year. Usually when people start out with it, they realise how little they know, and how little they can accomplish because of that and then they just quit the whole idea of making music..... Ahaha, I love how you mentioned that.... I'm going through those feelings now. I did realize though that I knew nothing about music production and that I am not going to become the next Simon overnight without any practice ^ ^. I know it's going to be quite some time before I can produce anything worth distributing.... I actually ended up taking the Synth back but I am still going to keep all of my DJ gear because it gives me such a huge natural high mixing all of my favorite tracks. I've decided I am going to stick with FL Studios for awhile to get an idea of how to piece together a track. I have Ableton too, but it doesn't have nearly as many awesome voices/instruments etc. as FL Studios. I will also mess around with Albino as soon as possible. I DL'ed a bundle pack recently with all sorts of VST's and goodies~. I really appreciate all of the suggestions, support, and not flipping me shit ^ ^. I'm going to go and try to produce something remotely decent and then I will post it later on. Thanks guys~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyman2.0 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Well it really depends with reaktor. I learned synthesis on it but i had also been trying to learn csound for awhile. Reaktor is not hard if you read up on actual different synthesis types first. You will have a much deeper knowledge then too. check out the isratrance forums, i have a bunch of my synths posted in the reaktor thread thats on the first page right now. Its not that cpu intensive unless you have an older machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeros Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Try doing some signal processing (linking FX) with reaktor. Apparently 3.2ghz is good for about 3-4 instances of it before it maxes your CPU and you can't do anything. TRohr, if you are using FL your best tool right now is their getting started tutorial, its beefy but will introduce you to all the basic concepts of studio work. It might be this -> http://fls.e-officedirect.com/GettingStart...ual/English.zip but they've changed alot of their site and features so that might not be the exact tutorial I have in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRohr Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 check out the isratrance forums... I'll definitely get my ass over there soon. I've heard a lot of good things about that place. I'll probably make some time tomorrow night to read through their forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike A Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 I've heard a lot of good things about that place. killllllaaaaaaarghhhhhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psytones Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 offtopic I've heard a lot of good things about that place. music creation/equipment .. and some info sections world wide .. the chill-out ... review and soooometimes DJ-label section are good places for information rest is pump the spam and what Mike Å said + ego + pretenciousness + some really fun people with light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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