Ormion Posted October 8, 2007 Author Share Posted October 8, 2007 Well the topic's tilte is ''Why did we end up in a world..'' not in a scene. Ok, my bad for saying from house to psy, but in the other most known dance genres djs win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rino Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Well the topic's tilte is ''Why did we end up in a world..'' not in a scene. Ok, my bad for saying from house to psy, but in the other most known dance genres djs win. Techno? No way Jose! And shame on you for even thinking it is so. The golden rule of techno is that behind every great DJ there is an even greater killer track that got him where he is. Check ALL the legends: Garnier, F.E.O.S., Clarke, Mills, Slater, Speedy J, Vath, Derrick May, Beltram, Liebing, Lakebusch, Dundov, Kanzyani, DJ Rush, Robert Hood,Vogel, Pet Duo, Mullero, B.M.B., Beyer, Ben Sims, Brikha, Green Velvet, Carl Craig, Dave Angel, Ishii, Umek, Claude Young, DJ Hell, Takkyu Ishino, Parisio, and the list goes on and on and on and on... Each and every one of these legends became a legend because they ALL had ground breaking, chart topping singles! Subsequently, they became in demand DJs. A great DJ only gets full recognition when he is backed up by top notch production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted October 8, 2007 Author Share Posted October 8, 2007 Techno? No way Jose! And shame on you for even thinking it is so. The golden rule of techno is that behind every great DJ there is an even greater killer track that got him where he is. Check ALL the legends: Garnier, F.E.O.S., Clarke, Mills, Slater, Speedy J, Vath, Derrick May, Beltram, Liebing, Lakebusch, Dundov, Kanzyani, DJ Rush, Robert Hood,Vogel, Pet Duo, Mullero, B.M.B., Beyer, Ben Sims, Brikha, Green Velvet, Carl Craig, Dave Angel, Ishii, Umek, Claude Young, DJ Hell, Takkyu Ishino, Parisio, and the list goes on and on and on and on... Each and every one of these legends became a legend because they ALL had ground breaking, chart topping singles! Subsequently, they became in demand DJs. A great DJ only gets full recognition when he is backed up by top notch production. I don't see anything different to what you said with what I said. What's the conclusion? Djs get more attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rino Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I don't see anything different to what you said with what I said. What's the conclusion? Djs get more attention. Nope, they don't. You probably don't follow techno music very closely if you think we were saying the same thing. All of the names I listed above are simultaneously producers and DJs. What got them their superstardom status is first and foremost their killer production. Examples: Jeff Mills = The Bells, Alarms Umek = Gatex, Lanicor Ben Sims = Manipulation Laurent Garnier = Greed, Acid Eiffel Sven Vath = Dein Schweiss Dave Clarke = Wisdom To The Wise, The Wonk Speedy J = Ginger, G Spot, Krekc Valentino Kanzyani = Teaching How To Do It Richie Hawtin = Minus Orange Green Velvet = The Stalker Adam Beyer = Igniton Key, Acid Code Petar Dundov = Kaskada Joey Beltram = Energy Flash  .......... I hope you understand I can keep doing this for days.......... These are all examples of producers who thanks to their amazing and jaw dropping production became extremely famous DJs. So, you only become an important and stable DJ once your production breaks through, ergo there are no real DJ unless they are backed by their own, fantastic production... And that is not what you were saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Nope, they don't. You probably don't follow techno music very closely if you think we were saying the same thing. All of the names I listed above are simultaneously producers and DJs. What got them their superstardom status is first and foremost their killer production. Examples: Jeff Mills = The Bells, Alarms Umek = Gatex, Lanicor Ben Sims = Manipulation Laurent Garnier = Greed, Acid Eiffel Sven Vath = Dein Schweiss Dave Clarke = Wisdom To The Wise, The Wonk Speedy J = Ginger, G Spot, Krekc Valentino Kanzyani = Teaching How To Do It Richie Hawtin = Minus Orange Green Velvet = The Stalker Adam Beyer = Igniton Key, Acid Code Petar Dundov = Kaskada Joey Beltram = Energy Flash  .......... I hope you understand I can keep doing this for days.......... These are all examples of producers who thanks to their amazing and jaw dropping production became extremely famous DJs. So, you only become an important and stable DJ once your production breaks through, ergo there are no real DJ unless they are backed by their own, fantastic production... And that is not what you were saying. all of them (except for beyer, never liked his music nor djing, but still kick ass dj and producer)  oh, and Cari Lekebusch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I personally feel this is the case because the vast majority of people are more interested in going to parties, getting fucked up and dancing to killer music (escaping), as opposed to the minority who go because they appreciate artistic ingenuity and are there primarily to listen (arriving). I don't know how many live acts I've been to where people are talking more than they're listening. Pan Sonic in Chicago was the worst example. They have lots of space in their music, and all the talking wrecked the experience for me. Happens a lot, and is one of the reasons I've stopped going to live shows. Â In a general population, there are, symbolically, far more "DJs" than "artists". That's just the way it is. If everyone were a creator our society would disintegrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I personally feel this is the case because the vast majority of people are more interested in going to parties, getting fucked up and dancing to killer music (escaping), as opposed to the minority who go because they appreciate artistic ingenuity and are there primarily to listen (arriving). I don't know how many live acts I've been to where people are talking more than they're listening. Pan Sonic in Chicago was the worst example. They have lots of space in their music, and all the talking wrecked the experience for me. Happens a lot, and is one of the reasons I've stopped going to live shows. Â In a general population, there are, symbolically, far more "DJs" than "artists". That's just the way it is. If everyone were a creator our society would disintegrate. Yeah, but most djs are also djs, thats what we are saying here, right? Â edit. in our little scene I meant.. sorry for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Yeah, but most djs are also djs, thats what we are saying here, right? Â edit. in our little scene I meant.. sorry for that! Aren't all djs djs? Â No, I hear you. But the other, original, point is that there are a hell of a lot of great artists who do not have the renown that DJs can achieve, which makes little sense from the artist's perspective, but makes total sense to someone who goes to a music event to get effed up and socialize (i.e., most people). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rino Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Aren't all djs djs?  No, I hear you. But the other, original, point is that there are a hell of a lot of great artists who do not have the renown that DJs can achieve, which makes little sense from the artist's perspective, but makes total sense to someone who goes to a music event to get effed up and socialize (i.e., most people). Now to a certain extent I agree with you. But, it seems to me that what you're saying is the equivalent of not going to soccer matches any longer because all the cursing, shouting and wilding out ruins the game for you... It's an integral part of the match, and I cannot even come close to imagening a party where everybody would just quietly pay maximum attention to the music. But maybe I just got you wrong  As for the producer/renown relationship, I agree with you. But that is the unfortunate rule (one of) of life: the fact you have talent won't make you necessarily successful. It takes much more than just gift and being blessed with more ability than others to pour it into success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 As for the producer/renown relationship, I agree with you. But that is the unfortunate rule (one of) of life: the fact you have talent won't make you necessarily successful. It takes much more than just gift and being blessed with more ability than others to pour it into success.It really depends on how you define success. Just look at all the talentless producers that make it in the scene. For them it seems they have made a success even without much work done. So even without talent you can be "successful". And even tho that is not a rule of life, unfortunately it is a fact. To most artists out there, they bond success very closely to money income. Income may be a part of the success they make, but it shouldn't be the bigger part of the equation. imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rino Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 It really depends on how you define success. Just look at all the talentless producers that make it in the scene. For them it seems they have made a success even without much work done. So even without talent you can be "successful". And even tho that is not a rule of life, unfortunately it is a fact. To most artists out there, they bond success very closely to money income. Income may be a part of the success they make, but it shouldn't be the bigger part of the equation. imo What you said above is the same thing I said, just switched around See: a talentless idiot can make it not even knowing how or why he made it, while a producer packed with ideas and talent, and balls to carry them all out can remain incognito for an entire life time... That's why I said it takes more than just talent. How I define success is not relevant; it's a subjective matter- be it money or satisfaction on a more personal, should I say spiritual level... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I wonder what all this says about the electronic nature of the genre. I mean, in Rock or Hip-Hop, for instance, yeah, I guess there are DJs, but the bands themselves attract all the people. Whereas the DJs who spin pop music are reserved for certain clubs, restaurants and weddings. I can't think of a superstar Rock DJ off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarbiter Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Maybe, because they're the ones who created the music in the first place Actors, directors, etc. = the artist  The guy at the film theater who sits at back and 'plays the film' = the dj Erm? lol @ what you qouted Anyway let me say again: DJs get more attention because no one cares about the name of the producers because they don't buy music. They only hear music in clubs played by DJs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Techno? No way Jose! And shame on you for even thinking it is so. The golden rule of techno is that behind every great DJ there is an even greater killer track that got him where he is. Check ALL the legends: Garnier, F.E.O.S., Clarke, Mills, Slater, Speedy J, Vath, Derrick May, Beltram, Liebing, Lakebusch, Dundov, Kanzyani, DJ Rush, Robert Hood,Vogel, Pet Duo, Mullero, B.M.B., Beyer, Ben Sims, Brikha, Green Velvet, Carl Craig, Dave Angel, Ishii, Umek, Claude Young, DJ Hell, Takkyu Ishino, Parisio, and the list goes on and on and on and on... Each and every one of these legends became a legend because they ALL had ground breaking, chart topping singles! Subsequently, they became in demand DJs. A great DJ only gets full recognition when he is backed up by top notch production. I fully agree with rino, and same goes for trance producers, most of trance producers dj, but they actually suck at, I say they should stick to producing only, and let the DJ's only to dominate in their field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 People with talent spend most of their time indulging that talent, creating music in this case in respect to what they love. People without talent spend far more time marketing themselves as talented & so often get more recognition than people much more talented than themselves. In all walks of life it is not usually the most talented who is the most popular but in fact vice versa! DJs have time to promote themselves, to scout what people want to hear & therefore play to the crowd & be idolised because they don't have to spend their time creating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Aren't all djs djs? Â No, I hear you. But the other, original, point is that there are a hell of a lot of great artists who do not have the renown that DJs can achieve, which makes little sense from the artist's perspective, but makes total sense to someone who goes to a music event to get effed up and socialize (i.e., most people). Haha, I didnt even spot my mistake after reading your reply twice... I was thinking "what the hell is he talig about?!" haha Cheers for correcting me hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 What you said above is the same thing I said, just switched around See: a talentless idiot can make it not even knowing how or why he made it, while a producer packed with ideas and talent, and balls to carry them all out can remain incognito for an entire life time... That's why I said it takes more than just talent. How I define success is not relevant; it's a subjective matter- be it money or satisfaction on a more personal, should I say spiritual level... Yea, i just did a follow-up reply m8 However theres little chance that a talented artist packed with ideas and the balls to carry them out can remain unknown for an entire life. He would have to be someone that plays live like once a year 500 feet underground in a top-secret club performing in front of 5 people. And the odds for that are what? 1 trillion to zero. Besides, if he really has the balls to show himself to the world, the only thing stoping him if he allready has talent and ideas, is that he's either lazy as fuck or he just doesn't care for music. But then again, if he doesn't care for music he isn't really a producer now is he?. There's hardly anything else that could stop him from becoming a great artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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