NEMO.BOFH Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I did not know where to post this, offtopic, general or in music making. This is not about psy trance though, so offtopic prolly is the right place. Now, I download and listen to quiet some music that has been released on Beatport and the likes. And it has occured to me that there has never been so much electronic music made ever. However, I also think that 98% of it is pure crap (according to MY taste). So it got me wondering, what is it that enables so many people to make so much music all of a sudden, and it HAS to be Software, RIGHT? Its the ease on obtaining your sequencer, synths, whatever, that makes it easy for some kid just to go and make a track, start a net-label and then release it on Beatport or the likes. Right? What do you think? discuss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 Sorry, I moved this to music making. It belongs there more than to the off topic section imo. Music Making philosophy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devious Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I did not know where to post this, offtopic, general or in music making. This is not about psy trance though, so offtopic prolly is the right place. Now, I download and listen to quiet some music that has been released on Beatport and the likes. And it has occured to me that there has never been so much electronic music made ever. However, I also think that 98% of it is pure crap (according to MY taste). So it got me wondering, what is it that enables so many people to make so much music all of a sudden, and it HAS to be Software, RIGHT? Its the ease on obtaining your sequencer, synths, whatever, that makes it easy for some kid just to go and make a track, start a net-label and then release it on Beatport or the likes. Right? What do you think? discuss! I honestly think you're right. It's the software. It's the fact you can download the latest and greatest versions of everything from your nearest torrent or p2p site. I also have to say I disagree, 98% is too nice, I'd say 99.9999% of it sucks. There's no time, there's no effort, everybody wants to be famous, everybody rushes to be famous. No time or effort is spent in making the music, they just think oh golly gee, i just made that and push it out the door onto the next one. Now had there never been a computer world and everything was always physical, you'd only find those who had a passion for creating music releasing it and thus would expect higher quality. It's part of the Internet revolution though. Music at a great price produces crappy releases. Then again though, I know people with some quality equipment [Myself included] that aren't computer related vsts and sequencers...that can't produce a mouses turd, hah! -d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 That's a double-sided situation. One side is that is much easier to create music with software only, so YES it's really easy to everyone non talented musician(?) to create a crappy track. The other side is that working only or mostly with hardware is really difficult, it needs experience and money and many many guys with plenty of talent that couldn't for some reason to work with hardware now in the software era can finally create their great music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 I honestly think you're right. It's the software. It's the fact you can download the latest and greatest versions of everything from your nearest torrent or p2p site. I also have to say I disagree, 98% is too nice, I'd say 99.9999% of it sucks. There's no time, there's no effort, everybody wants to be famous, everybody rushes to be famous. No time or effort is spent in making the music, they just think oh golly gee, i just made that and push it out the door onto the next one. Now had there never been a computer world and everything was always physical, you'd only find those who had a passion for creating music releasing it and thus would expect higher quality. It's part of the Internet revolution though. Music at a great price produces crappy releases. Then again though, I know people with some quality equipment [Myself included] that aren't computer related vsts and sequencers...that can't produce a mouses turd, hah! -d I have to add that at the moment I dont use ANY hardware to create my music either. I use only software (sometimes I sample my good old Alpha Juno, but thats about it). But there is something that you said that made it more clear all of a sudden to me, the RUSH in which they make the tracks, and thats where I think that I differ. I am never happy with my creations, I really work until the point of being stupid hehe. Quality before Quantity! And I think its a good thing that software exists, because some of the kids out there ARE really talented, and if it wassnt for the software, they would never get discovered. But yeah, it has more downsides than upsides... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 To be honest, yes it is easy to make crap music and get it even released. But to make music amazing, something unique and quality produced using only software is more difficult than to do with hardware. Most of the software instruments don't even touch the sound quality the hardware units produce, thus u need to use a whole lot of effects just to give that same impression that a hardware synth can do. But then again, you have so much more options with software, so many ways to twist them around and control them in different ways that it almost, if not entirely makes you forget about the sound quality issues and lets yourself be more creative as a music maker. Believe it or not, software and hardware instruments are very similar in their core. The software instruments use the main processor to do all the work for them, using 1's and 0's, and the hardware ones use tranzistors, resistors, diodes, oscillators etc etc, which are also a part of computers, but in hardware synths, they all work together to form the sound, while in computers they are used for the processor and various other pc components, which means you get a very "calculated" sound result in the end, not something that passes thru all those electronics... The unique thing about hardware might be that it's not as accurate as a software instrument, making the sound more "natural" as it passes thru the electric circle. While these things come natural with a hardware synth, you would have to emulate it in a software instrument. Well this is my opinion anyways, I'd be equally happy with a Virus TI or a modular vst synth, it all depends on the artist and his creativity and experience on how "good" the music will be in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I wouldnt blame the software also, I think the main reason is greed.. I am thankfull for the software cause vsts enables someone who cant afford hardware to create.. For instance take infecteds younger brother, kid was learnd to use a synth before he could walk cause he had all the hardware and a good teacher.. I worked 3 years just to get a synth, sound card and a controller and still, even I sold my car I wont have the half of money to buy used nord or virus.. But obviously, younger brother has much better karma :-D For me trance is art but nowdays I dont even listen to psy so often, I preffer progressive cause there u can still find some artist that really makes art out of music.. When I listen to todays tracks they all sound same to me even with lots of filters, effects, breaks, lifters and explosions in full on and I even dont wont to mention dark stupid sounds which gives you nothing but a bad trip.. I know its really hard to modulate all that stuff and but it still sounds hollow.. Much simpler tracks can be much more better.. From my experiance I know that it is music without effort that ruins all.. Second track I created in a month of really hard work and sleepless nights is way better than track I did in two days after almost half a year of making album.. I felted, finally I can make this, I must get it released, just do it, fill the space on that CD, you are years behind if you dont do this quick nobody will ever hear ya.. And now I regret cause debut album must be good and I dont want to release all of my tracks.. But still, last track I did is almost done after three days and its better than any before but thats due to experiance I gained.. I would blame record labels for releasing crap simply for the money.. Finally they are the ones in charge.. And net labels I even dont take into account.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubicidal Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Yeah, I do have to agree that there's an amazing amount of uninspired stuff out there. It's like everyone's trying to copy each other and churn stuff out without focusing on creating something interesting. Or if they're going for interesting/different, it ends up really disjointed or not interesting musically, but just in the effects/sounds... :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 why rush when you have all the time in the world and you shouldn't judge it, you should deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Yeap.. Better to do one good track than a whole bunch of bad.. But in the time of goa you could find only one great track on album, probably track number 6 or 7 and others are so so, as I would say just to fill up the space.. So that mentallity was not just now with massive production but from beggining.. Could you explain a bit more about judging and dealing with.. Also I cought myself recently that I have that bad attitude of competing with others, you know stuf like, mine has to be better and so.. And with that attitude I underestimate some tracks that are crap.. I hate that, cause its helping your ego growing which is bad.. Most of the producers make their first album piece of art and others are more and more commercial and made just for the money.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 even with oldskool various CD's and full albums; the usual 3-4 good tracks and all the rest utter shit mostly todays full-on puke can even range from 0 to 1 stunning track on a whole CD! worth the buy!!! only very few artists in any genre achieve making a likeable album from beginning to end.(for my tastes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abort_now Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 i don't think it's permanent, but due to all of the options that are being presented to us in terms of new vst's and new technology that will make your music sound unique and/or listenable if you use enough of them, people are just going wild, and forgetting about the music. not only that, but these new vst's are so non-linear in the way they are meant to be used, (listen to a loop, go back, tweak a little, listen, go back, try a new preset, etc...) that it's like, as the person writing the music, the right side of your brain really has to fight to still even be involved in the process, much less in control, and you can hear that in the music. Sure it's polished, and it has interesting sounds, but there is no _flow_. And I don't mean flow, like does it follow the standard techno/psytrance template. I mean the flow of a true artist, where you can tell that they were tapping into a place from deep within. I know very few people who can ever hope to keep their emotions/conciousness/whatever at that level of flow long enough to produce a track using the vst formula, but unfortunately that's what sells right now, so we'll just have to keep sifting until someone comes along and reminds us what it's all about once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Nicely said, especially that about right half of the brain and the flow.. But u are actually saying that most of music is made with VSTs today, is this true? I think Ill take good preparations and settings before future productions to keep my emotions/conciousness/whatever on a high level.. Its not just about rushing into it and messing with the VSTs, you got to have a plan what you whan to do and deeply concentrate on that or else your mind will go from preset to preset on a VST without being focused on a real point you are trying to make.. I dont like shifting the presets cause its neverending story, its better to know what u are searching for and when u get close to that develop that according to your own taste.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike A Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I think you are all wrong. VST and software is the best thing that has happened to music ever. Yes, there is a lot more music produced and also a lot of crap music produced but the ratio of good:bad music remains and there is a also a lot more good music produced. Saying that 99% sucks is your personal taste, because you grew up in a different time and music is after all about taste and trends. Music you think that sucks today will be the classics for people in 10 years, so... Anyway, talent is not related to money. There was crap music also 15 and 20 years ago when only the rich could afford making electronic music. It's just that no one remember it because, well, it sucked. Same goes for today's music. Don't blame the tools for the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I think you are all wrong. VST and software is the best thing that has happened to music ever. Yes, there is a lot more music produced and also a lot of crap music produced but the ratio of good:bad music remains and there is a also a lot more good music produced. Saying that 99% sucks is your personal taste, because you grew up in a different time and music is after all about taste and trends. Music you think that sucks today will be the classics for people in 10 years, so... Anyway, talent is not related to money. There was crap music also 15 and 20 years ago when only the rich could afford making electronic music. It's just that no one remember it because, well, it sucked. Same goes for today's music. Don't blame the tools for the product. +1 It's all about technique technique technique. No matter what tools you use, the only limit is your imagination and the will to continue your work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubicidal Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I got into this music only in the last 4 years and I still think that what was made in the early to mid 90s was much better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 +1 It's all about technique technique technique. No matter what tools you use, the only limit is your imagination and the will to continue your work. yeah, of course it is, but people dont care about techniques even... taste or not, I am sorry, but have you actually see how much music is being released at the moment on sites like Beatport and the likes?! over 4000 tracks a WEEK sometimes !Q%#@ !%R$!)@#($% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeros Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Reaktor I here it everywhere in pop music and most mainstream production. Its got thousands of great presets that sound extremely good and need no thought to put together. I even hear it in loads of bulk psytrance these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Same goes for Reason, thats why I abandoned it.. VSTs are good, u can create your own studio in way that suits you the best.. Implement some hardware and live instruments and its up to you what u make of it.. But I wouldnt limit my self only to VSTs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 it's all about what's it called.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 yeah, of course it is, but people dont care about techniques even... taste or not, I am sorry, but have you actually see how much music is being released at the moment on sites like Beatport and the likes?! over 4000 tracks a WEEK sometimes !Q%#@ !%R$!)@#($% Nah what i was saying is it depends on youre technique and skills on how your track will sound like. If people dont care for them then stuff like this happens, 4k tracks a week on a regular basis heh. But that doesn't mean people will buy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goa Bill Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I think you are all wrong. VST and software is the best thing that has happened to music ever. Yes, there is a lot more music produced and also a lot of crap music produced but the ratio of good:bad music remains and there is a also a lot more good music produced. Saying that 99% sucks is your personal taste, because you grew up in a different time and music is after all about taste and trends. Music you think that sucks today will be the classics for people in 10 years, so... Anyway, talent is not related to money. There was crap music also 15 and 20 years ago when only the rich could afford making electronic music. It's just that no one remember it because, well, it sucked. Same goes for today's music. Don't blame the tools for the product. +1 Reaktor I here it everywhere in pop music and most mainstream production. Its got thousands of great presets that sound extremely good and need no thought to put together. I even hear it in loads of bulk psytrance these days. You can also create your own synths that will not sound like what everybody else's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike A Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 yeah, of course it is, but people dont care about techniques even... taste or not, I am sorry, but have you actually see how much music is being released at the moment on sites like Beatport and the likes?! over 4000 tracks a WEEK sometimes !Q%#@ !%R$!)@#($% ok, and how many good tracks there are in beatport? much more than everything released a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getafix Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I agree with what Mike A has said. If you think 99% of the music released is crap why are you even in this scene? Why don't you move on to something that suits your taste better. I agree that there is a lot of crap being released but there are also the occasional gems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 I agree with what Mike A has said. If you think 99% of the music released is crap why are you even in this scene? Why don't you move on to something that suits your taste better. I agree that there is a lot of crap being released but there are also the occasional gems. Who said anything about Psy (This scene!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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