acidkills Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 For introduction I wanna state my 1st impressions of Ableton.. Lot of people on this forum talked about using Ableton is better than Cubase etc.. So I gained impression that it really can be used in production although I knew its for live performance as the name tells it.. So I tried a demo and I 1st thing I thinked about is that midi mapping is well done.. But I didnt explore it so much cause its was a demo.. Now I have full version and Im really interested in it.. When I opened it again my second thought was: Man, where are the controls? OK, it has some FX but its really meant for pure live performance.. Then again after I read the manual and explored it further I realized its just about the loops and creative way of recording and playing them.. Of course it supports VSTs, thats what I want.. But when I loaded VSTs there was 1st disappointment.. It couldnt load any synth made for live performance.. It supports only FX as I see it.. Than 2nd dissapointment.. Why cant I load some of my midi sequences, patterns, phrases and such into it.. How will I recreate live on stage what I do at home.. I could use a VST sequencer for rhythm and split my keyboard so I can play bass, leads, pads and stuff separately on my synth but even if I could knew to play all of them at the same time with my 2 hands and even if I only splitted the keyboard and used rhythms from synth to play my melodies that cant be possible cause Ableton does not support synth Im using nor sequences import or something like that.. However I really have faith in that program and hope that someone will tell me Im wrong.. So to make it simple, how is live performing of your stuff made in cubase done? I wanna be ABLE to sequence my bass lines, rhythms and play my leads live, maybe spilt the keyboard so I can play bass patterns live and drop some loop here and there? We are making trance (synthesizeing sounds that have never been heard before, not looping something thats chewed and spitted many times(although we are implementing short loops of such stuff but thats just a little dose)) so I see no great use of loops, that could be more apropriate for ©rap, or hip hop and such, even minimal.. Is ableton ABLE of to do that? It has really great GUI and midi implementation so it would be waste of such good program.. If ableton is unABLE I hope stainberg V-STack is but again V-STack has support for 12 VSTs but without sequencing.. Or is the only way putting all my cubase projects into one big track and twiddleing the knobs.. But thats not as live as I want it to be.. Even some dj mix program support use of vst and playing midi patterns automatically while at the same time you are in the mix and are controling everything with midi.. So here it is, I know its a long read but I really wanna go live, its natural progression when u have some of your production material.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 17, 2007 Author Share Posted November 17, 2007 Oh, come on, where are all those ableton freaks now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caban Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 I think you should spend some more time with it and dive in more to the manual before you get disappointed. Drag over an instrument on the plugin display for a MIDI track and you have VST instruments ready to play. Or pull a bunch in different chains in an instrument rack and choose what one should play when by modulating a controller. Drag a MIDI file from the file browser onto an empty slot in session view or on to the arrange page and it will play on the instrument on that track. The MIDI editor can seem a bit simple when you first try it out, but if you learn all the keyboard commands and learn your way around it I find it quite good. The implementation of controller drawing the really good. As for building up a live set with Live, there is many approaches. One way is to bounce down most parts as audio and leave just a few as MIDI that you want to tweak in realtime. then make different scenes of the different parts of the song. Then you have a premade order or the arrangement of the track to fall back on but you have freedom to manipulate it as you see fit. Or you could even trigger all elements of the track in realtime by triggering with a controller. The possibilities is quite endless and you will for sure have to spend some time with it before you will find the way you will use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jikkenteki Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 But when I loaded VSTs there was 1st disappointment.. It couldnt load any synth made for live performance.. It supports only FX as I see it.. I play vst synths live in my live sets all the time. One possible problem is that you have the mixer channel settings wrong so you aren't hearing it. I often have that issue when making a live set, usually I just need to set the monitor from "Auto" to "In" and then I can hear what I am playing no problem. Midi loops I haven't played with so much (I tend to use audio loops) but when I have, again its usually just been a routing issue to get them to work properly. In my experience everything in Live seems like a pain until you figure it out, after which you are usually like "Oh, how did I miss that?"/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 "Oh, how did I miss that?"/Yeah, I sometimes have that experiance with cubase.. Anyways thank u guys for help, I just needed to know that it can be done cause I went through all the manual and not a word of midi editors and such.. Anyways I can drag n drop only vst effects onto track but not synths.. In the browser it wont open the folder of particular vst.. I choosed my cubase vstplugins folder and when I first loaded them it sent me one after another "this vst cant be opened with live".. So u are saying that all of your vsts u use on cubase are working in live.. I must get this to work, that what I wanted and knew that it must have options but seems Im having some problems.. Ill mess with that and see maybe it will work.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 WHAT?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 I just cant get open vst synths when I drag and drop them in ableton, only vst effects.. And I doubt thats the audio setup problem.. I just tried it now again and it just wont open the folder where particular vst synth is.. And it can open folder where vst effect is normally and than I drag and drop effect and it works, but Im saying the synths wont open, none.. Which vsts u use in ableton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needle ninja Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Just last night I watched a video of a producer using Abelton. He was using it "as a scratch pad" on his laptop then he took what he did and transfered all the tracks to Cubase so he could isolate them on buses but that still wasn't the end! He had to cut out all the silent parts in Cubase and do some cool timestretching and he said that he didn't export the output of Cubase because the effects weren't good he had a Yamaha Os1 console that he recorded into and used its effects. He was a hardcore producer and I sware he looked like he was on speed - just frenetic - probably just like Resnik. He was good though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 I just cant get open vst synths when I drag and drop them in ableton, only vst effects.. And I doubt thats the audio setup problem.. I just tried it now again and it just wont open the folder where particular vst synth is.. And it can open folder where vst effect is normally and than I drag and drop effect and it works, but Im saying the synths wont open, none.. Which vsts u use in ableton? no probemld here... but then again, I own it.... ALL synths that i have work. From ABL to z3ta... you really need to spend some more time with it, and i would suggest that you read more about it, i mean comon, you seem to read so much other stuff, why not dig into THIS manual.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Just last night I watched a video of a producer using Abelton. He was using it "as a scratch pad" on his laptop then he took what he did and transfered all the tracks to Cubase so he could isolate them on buses but that still wasn't the end! He had to cut out all the silent parts in Cubase and do some cool timestretching and he said that he didn't export the output of Cubase because the effects weren't good he had a Yamaha Os1 console that he recorded into and used its effects. He was a hardcore producer and I sware he looked like he was on speed - just frenetic - probably just like Resnik. He was good though. link?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jikkenteki Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I just cant get open vst synths when I drag and drop them in ableton, only vst effects.. And I doubt thats the audio setup problem.. I just tried it now again and it just wont open the folder where particular vst synth is.. And it can open folder where vst effect is normally and than I drag and drop effect and it works, but Im saying the synths wont open, none.. Which vsts u use in ableton? All my vst's work in Live. Just an idea, but are you dropping them into audio or midi tracks in Live? From what I recall (away from my Live'd lappy right now) synths run from midi tracks and won't load into audio tracks. I also seem to recall if you just double click a synth it will automatically open in a new track in the mixer for it. I know there are some native cubase plug ins that won't work in other apps, but everything else works here no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needle ninja Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 link?! It was Computer Music Magazine Sept. issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share Posted November 19, 2007 no probemld here... but then again, I own it.... ALL synths that i have work. From ABL to z3ta... you really need to spend some more time with it, and i would suggest that you read more about it, i mean comon, you seem to read so much other stuff, why not dig into THIS manual.... First I cant spend time when nothing is working, I would stick with it for long if it works.. Anyways dont think Im not getting music production seriously, I've read throughly lives manual with as much patience as I have when Im reading the holy scriptures.. My manual has 44 pages and maybe its incomplete.. All my vst's work in Live. Just an idea, but are you dropping them into audio or midi tracks in Live? From what I recall (away from my Live'd lappy right now) synths run from midi tracks and won't load into audio tracks. I also seem to recall if you just double click a synth it will automatically open in a new track in the mixer for it. I know there are some native cubase plug ins that won't work in other apps, but everything else works here no problem.Thats more logical solution since fx should work on audio tracks and synths on midi.. That should work but its not.. Like I said it shows nothing when I open some vst synth folder so I have nothing to double click on but it shows the effects.. I tried it just now and when I set vst plugin folder in live to that cubase is using live just crashes.. Im compensating that now by copying vsts to another folder and deleting native instruments vsts so well see what happens.. I just found out that I have live v 1.0, I think thats obsolete version, I could get live 6, what is the current version? How could I download old live that doesnt supports vsts.. Man OK so I deleted all native cubase vsts along with some synths live proposed and now there are no nag screens when loading vst folder but it still wont open synths.. How do I choose between audio and midi tracks? When I create new track its audio by default and I didnt seen any midi track so far in live.. Also I didnt try it but according to the settings it seems I have similar problem with output on headphones like with deckadance so it looks like Im gona have to use sb live sound card to achieve prelistening option.. Ill mess with that later, live should support two sound cards, is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznik Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 download live ver 6 everything works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share Posted November 19, 2007 download live ver 6 everything works Naturally, its in progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 23, 2007 Author Share Posted November 23, 2007 It was Computer Music Magazine Sept. issueMan thanks for recomendation, its really great quick start, I warp now and its great, it took me few minutes till I dig it but now its awesome.. Live is probably best tool for live performance and I plan to use it in that way and for remixes.. But for production cubase is a must although live offers some inovations.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needle ninja Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Your welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 stop complaining, you are using a cracked version. shame on you! :drama: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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