Colin OOOD Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Crono - thought I'd better listen to some of your tracks just in case you have a point that I missed... Through The Fractal - the kick here is obviously from a real bass drum, and is lacking in click and sub-frequencies. Also - you do realise the handclap you're using is synthesised, and not a recording of real handclaps? Musical Constant of the Universe - can't hear the kick well enough to tell anything about it but the rest of the real perc you're using sounds ok (although I'd suggest cutting around 100Hz on the toms as they're very boomy). Prog Demo - again, synthesised handclaps... was waiting for the kick to come in but it never did... might well be intentional though, it's obviously not the complete track. Automat Demo - the kick here is the weak point of the clip - very middy with no real bass or definition. I may not have chosen a selection of your tracks that accurately represents what you're talking about though, so if there's another tune of yours that proves your point please let me know. You've got some good ideas and many of the other sounds and riffs you're using are great, but what I've heard has been universally let down by the kickdrum. I stand by what I said... dance music stands or falls partly on the quality and qualities of the kick, and 99.999% of the time, kicks taken from real drum kits just won't do it on the dancefloor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronodevir Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Well, i don't make dance music...which probably would explaine alot. And most of the time, i pruposely make my kick sound undancy, i don't really like those 'phat black bassy' thumps people use in thier tracks.. :/ Alot of my tracks are supposed to [many probably don't ] entrance a person, not get them dancing, i usually make a track with the intention of the melody or what not getting stuck on them, in thier head. Sometimes, i don't even add percussion, because the sound alone does it....but most people probably wouldn't dig that as much...i have like 70 tracks that i haven't shown anyone, some are done, some arn't, some are expriements... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin OOOD Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Well, i don't make dance music...which probably would explaine alot. And most of the time, i pruposely make my kick sound undancy, i don't really like those 'phat black bassy' thumps people use in thier tracks.. :/ Alot of my tracks are supposed to [many probably don't ] entrance a person, not get them dancing, i usually make a track with the intention of the melody or what not getting stuck on them, in thier head. Sometimes, i don't even add percussion, because the sound alone does it....but most people probably wouldn't dig that as much...i have like 70 tracks that i haven't shown anyone, some are done, some arn't, some are expriements... Fair enough. I guess I was confused by your description of your music on your Soundclick page as being "Pay/Goa trance", which (when spelled correctly ) is a form of dance music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronodevir Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Hell, i have no idea what kind of music i make to be honest, i just do it. Most people who listne though, say Goa. Who knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznik Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 i think astral projection uses very shitty kicks(i havent heard much of their work though), cant really enjoy the tracks because of the kick, thus you see a good kick is most important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 i think astral projection uses very shitty kicks(i havent heard much of their work though), cant really enjoy the tracks because of the kick, thus you see a good kick is most important.I personnaly like the shitty kick of astral cause its meant to be "shitty".. In goa music kick isnt so pronaunced and doesnt have to be banging cause the lead is the main focus.. And to cronodevir.. Man we are making electronic music, I didnt listen to your stuff but if u wanna go and play in some band go ahead..But that wont make u goa head.. Kick doesnt have to be real nor does the percussion, thats why we use synths, to synthesize, make something different.. Although its great to combine unreal sounds with real.. But synthesizers are not meant to just emulate real sounds but to create new as well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronodevir Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 synths aren't meant to emulate real sounds, thats my point....trying to make a real sound with a synth is pointless. but a kick is a kick electronic music does not = dance or club music btw....electronic music is music that is made on a synth, thats the only thing that sets it apart, electronic music is not 'club music', it most certainly is not only danceable music...and goa defianitly isn't only danceable music....if they wanted to make it danceable, they would go to europe and make some tiesto... i don't want to play in a band..and..............goa head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jikkenteki Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 And Nemo u didnt answer.. Do u use factory presets as they are? If yes than I think you should stick with magix music maker or something like that, there are many sampled loops and kicks there, you just put them altogether and u have a hit track(thats been chewed million times over and over).. Simon Posford has used straight factory presets on many occassions, yet I don't see people complaining about that all that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin OOOD Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Simon Posford has used straight factory presets on many occassions, yet I don't see people complaining about that all that much. The intro sound to Hallu - LSD is a Kurzweil K2000 preset patch played in octaves. Shpongle have used whole chunks of demo songs from sample CDs as major parts of their tracks... they say 'talent borrows, genius steals'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Dont worry, acidkills is just fetching for something, since he knows hes wrong STEALING software, but needs to get the attention AWAY from that. I bet you he uses presets as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidkills Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Dont worry, acidkills is just fetching for something, since he knows hes wrong STEALING software, but needs to get the attention AWAY from that. I bet you he uses presets as well. OK u got me there.. :clapping: But thats just cause I got new discovery PRO and I couldnt resist, it was so tempting.. But lets turn it the other way, why is stealing software bad and stealing kicks/presets isnt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznik Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 using factory presets is not stealing at all, they come with the software you paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 OK u got me there.. :clapping: But thats just cause I got new discovery PRO and I couldnt resist, it was so tempting.. But lets turn it the other way, why is stealing software bad and stealing kicks/presets isnt?sampling, can you spell it? if it was not for sampling, a lot of music that you LOVE would not exist. if that music would not exist, you would not make the music you are doing, and you would not know music as it is today. if you sample and are creative about out, there is nothing wrong with it. if you are sampling, and you sound just like the original, you should think whether you are a musician or not I am sorry, but I have punctured every aspect of your argumentation, and here is another needle in your balloon. who says stealing when I actually BUY the presets? HOW IS IT STEALING when the preset came with the synth that I bought? The EULA actually tells me that I can use it however I want, and the result is MINE. I think you confuse stealing with plagiary? so why is stealing software bad? well, i think you know the answer to that question already. Tell me some of your favorite STOLEN vst's and I tell you what would happen if everyone would steal it, instead of buying it. sorry man, but you have NO ARGUMENT here, you are nitpicking and being annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Why is this discussion still going on??? why is stealing software bad and stealing kicks/presets isnt? you've just won "PSYNEWS' most rhetorical question of the year award" I'd like to make a nice pic of a cup but i'm too lazy to bother right now. software = few thousand lines of code+hard debug process + marketing+ update+ production etc etc a creative process, only for a selected few who have the brains,money and dedication to complete such complex projects kick= "pok" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Why is this discussion still going on??? cause im stupid enough to answer. can you please make that cup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 :posford: :posford: :posford: SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! *waiting for acidkills' speech* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 :posford: :posford: :posford: SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! SPEECH!! SPEECH! *waiting for acidkills' speech* in the name of reger: :LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 again: Haaaaa. +1 i think astral projection uses very shitty kicks(i havent heard much of their work though), cant really enjoy the tracks because of the kick, thus you see a good kick is most important.I personally LOVE Astral Projection's kicks, especially from their earlier stuff. Totally phat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike A Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 kick= "pok"best definition of a kick drum ever. anyway, stealing a kick alone is not good enough usually, i always eq, compress and sometimes even use the pencil tool to make it fit my own sound. using a kick straight away will mostly suck, no matter how good it is. actually, there is no such thing as a good kick. there is a kick that fits the rest of your mix, and stealing a kick for that is like using a preset and tweaking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I doubt it...and if it did, again i ask, why? If it sounds real, why not just skip that whole waste of time, and use..a REAL kick? This is something i don't get about trance music sometimes, tries so hard to not sound organic, yet when it comes to percussion, they try to sound as organic as possiable, using a synth or what have you....stop wasteing time, thats probably why most electronic songs are mearly catchy dance tracks "because we gotta make sure that kick sounds real mate!!! don't forget to master it.....what? melody and harmony? GTFO i like my kick bass kick bass kick bass kick bass line..that shit is tizight!!!!" I'm just saying, a synth isn't going to make a kick drum sound more realerer [sp??] than an actual kick, so why not just use a recorded kick drum and modify that? Thats useualy what i do. i don't waste time trying to turn my 404 into a real authentic kickdrum...besides, people will think its a sample anyways if it sounds too good. Its amazing how much of a waste of time people spend on stuff... [b]"hey, lets make a kick drum that sounds real instead of useing a real kick drum"[/b] its as if several 'exprts' gathered around, decided on what is the hardest method of doing something, agreed on it, and published it, and everyone started to catch on and do it that way......................oh wait, that is what happened. ---- And if you use a TR909 for percs now, people will laugh at you because it sounds too synthetic....not real enough. ---- You tell me which is better, former or latter: http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/qksp/kickthing What it boils down to is, does it sound good? imho, if it doesn't sound real, its basicly crap....in the sample i made, the second kick sounds leages better than the bassy bluraggggygsgkjg-ness of the first one. first one is a synth kick and second one is a sample taken from deepest india thats the whole point of creative music...trying to make a sound from an instrument that isnt meant to make that sound?? tb-303 anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronodevir Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 thats the whole point of creative music...trying to make a sound from an instrument that isnt meant to make that sound?? tb-303 anyone? No, the point of creative sound is making sounds that people have not heard. Technically, having a kick is the most cliche and uncreative and unoriginal aspect of any electronic song....you name the song, it has a kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 No, the point of creative sound is making sounds that people have not heard. Technically, having a kick is the most cliche and uncreative and unoriginal aspect of any electronic song....you name the song, it has a kick. dude if you make a sound out of an instrument that isnt supposed to make that sound,you HAVE made a sound nobody has heard. C-R-E-A-T-I-V-I-T-Y My songs dont have kicks. I do beatless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 dude if you make a sound out of an instrument that isnt supposed to make that sound,you HAVE made a sound nobody has heard. C-R-E-A-T-I-V-I-T-Y My songs dont have kicks. I do beatless. yeah? cool, i wanna hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 yeah? cool, i wanna hear well you cant hear...cz am an idiot and I forgot all my projects back home ....well I will go get the monitors today and start making new ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amygdala Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Try telling Vince Clarke that. Or the guy who designed that synth, what was it called again, oh yes - the TR909. Also: where do you think all these kick samples come from in the first place? They don't just fall from the sky, thrown down by Thor to give man the Gift of Bass; people make them. On synths.I second that. And I am thrilled to see Vince Clarke mentioned here, because he really does amazing stuff with good'ol' synths. I think he has gone mostly software now, but still... I am naming my first son "Vincent"! To embrace both ends of this discussion, I really dig Vince's creativity when it comes to synthesizing drums and percussion. I also readilly use "Lucky Bastard", a sample CD packed with a tiny bit of his doings. Dude, you can get a PHAT kick from a subtractive synth, not to mention some wicked hi-hats and snares, percussion, FX, etc. Stealing (borrowing/sampling) percussion can be an artform in the right hands. I second that t(w)oo... These days I do my kicks on an SH-1. That machine can knock the air out of vacuum, if you twiddle the filter enough. software = few thousand lines of code+hard debug process + marketing+ update+ production etc etc a creative process, only for a selected few who have the brains,money and dedication to complete such complex projects kick= "pok" I second that third! I work for TC Electronic and especially the debugging phase of writing music software is a massive bitch. Musical software is a musical instrument, and if you steal a guitar, then you're a thief - follow the implication. A kick is a musical "event" so to speak, just like a guitar-riff. "Stealing" a guitar-riff isn't theft - so I would say that you can't really steal something that "happens" as opposed to a physical thing (software counts as physical...). Sampling a musical event is therefore fine in my opinion. -A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.