Mastering Suggestions for the Free Music Movement

[Basilisk]

Hello all... I have been mulling this one over for some time, so perhaps a bit of community input would help I'm working very hard on pushing free music as a viable release strategy in this scene, but one aspect of the process often trips me up: mastering. Artists see the value of releasing music for free (either for promotional and exposure or simply because they love to share), and of course I am quite happy to provide hosting and online promotion at no charge to anyone... the little wrinkle is this intermediate step--the mastering--which I consider essential for a high-quality end product.

 

There are two specific thrusts to my enquiry here. The first is general: what should artists releasing their music for free do? Are there people who will master a release for free knowing that it is non-commercial? I would like to be able to have a list on hand of people who would like to donate some time to support the cause... but I don't know how realistic that is.

 

The second aspect of this issue deals with my own netlabel, Ektoplazm Records. I've got a bunch of free releases lined up, but I have been having some difficult finding any pros willing to work for a cut rate in exchange for promotion or other favours. Even if I do spend several hundred dollars on getting the mastering done, it would not be a step toward a sustainable solution. I am not opposed to spending some money on mastering; I just find that the amounts charged are really beyond my means both as a poor university student and a guy who spends most of his free time working hard to give stuff away any suggestions on studios who might have some sympathies in this area would be really cool...

 

So, there you have it... I am still working this through--still waiting on responses from some studios and in negotiations with others... but this mastering issue has been the toughest thing to crack so far. Any help would be greatly appreciated, both for myself and for everyone else keen on releasing music for free

[wojchie]

i think its really nice you do this , i wish i could help, but mastering is a point where improvement is still needed for me .

If i get good enough i'll let you know

[cronodevir]

just an idea, have two sections of tracks? oen section, which will probably be the majority, and one section will be the really good stuff, the purpose will be to help people find the 'good' stuff...

 

imho, the best option is to not worry about how mastering is going to get done, and to find out a way to form this issue into your system..its not somethign thats going to get fixed instantly, and you also have to know that making music is a fun activity, mastering is never fun, and relize that people who are doing music for free, probably arn't to worried about the mastering, considering that IS a comercial standard, in the free world, its a perk...

 

the best thing would be to say hey, some tracks are mastered good and some arn't, i need to find a way to catagorize these two groups...

[Colin OOOD]

I can do the odd track here and there for you but I'm doing a lot of free netlabel stuff at the moment and I need to keep my schedule somewhat free for paying jobs, so I'm not really interested in taking on a large free project at this time. Like I said though, ones and twos is possible.

[devious]

I really think that as more artists jump on the freedom of music bandwagon, they should start taking notes on mastering as soon as possible. It's cool if somebody wants to spend 2 weeks learning a VST/VSTi or synthesizer. Maybe divide it up and conquer it all. It's really the only way I see a resourceful solution coming to terms.

 

Or maybe we need to start having more than one person labeled in a group. "me, him, her" where me and him are doing the instruments and her, she's doing the mastering but comes along to all our gigs and does some crazy sound mixing with the main board, you get my drift.

 

It's really up to the community to become creative and unless they want mastered songs to flood the data streams, it's just going to have to be raw and untouched. I for one find it intriguing to devote time learning all realms of music from synthesis to understanding mastering as well. I don't later on in the future want to release something until it's fully cut. I also won't have the necessary resource of time to do it for random people either being a single dad and I sure don't like paying people for something I am only considering a hobby at this point.

 

So alas, I say...all producers, if you spend a day making music for 4-6 hours, maybe add or cut one hour out of that time to study a bit on mastering technique and knowing sound mixing better. That's what needs to be promoted, I think! A complete production/mastering suite all in each music makers home/studio

 

Other than that, Colin is offering to help you, a little. I doubt there's going to be someone who does it professionally on a day to day basis charging hourly or per track who's going to commit to using up their resources they have to pay for to do something for free regardless of any revolution [my own term don't take offense] that takes place. There's a lot of money in mastering more so than there seems to be in music itself these days.

 

-d

[acidkills]

I had also that troubles.. My first tracks were.. well I dont want to spit on my work but when u opened a track in a wave editor it was horrible.. And second I grab my track and go to a friend to let him test them and what did he say, he said its so quite, I can hear just hats.. That really pissed me off so I start to studie that part of production cause simply if the quality is not good, it doesnt matter how good arrangement and ideas are.. But otherwise even a bad track can sound good when its good mixed and mastered.. It took me long time but step by step I learned and now I can master track that looks good, sounds good and its loud without clipping.. I also got some great tools I gathered in two years.. It was hard work but its paid off.. I cant guaranty u pro work but if u dont know anything about it I can help a little(very little cause I too have to produce).. Just for fun and experiance..

[Otto Matta]

Seems to me, what with the increasingly sophisticated and affordable in-the-box mastering software, combined with the relatively new idea of "creative mastering", the sound engineer is slowly but surely going the way of the producer. Electronic artists have had to produce their own stuff for a while now, and will soon be mastering their own stuff just as much. Fine with me. I'd rather spend five hundred bucks for software once than five hundred bucks every time I need some mastering done. Not only that, but I like the idea that with the help of good software I'll have creative control over the mastering aspect - that mysterious technicality - as well, rather than leave it in the hands of someone who doesn't necessarily share my vision.

 

Not that it's entirely helpful for Basilisk's purposes now, but give it two years or so. Either way, I think it's up to the artist to find a way to get it accomplished, at least in the world of small labels.

[Mike A]

Mastering is not only software - you also need very good monitors, good acoustics and a lot of experience.

[Otto Matta]

Mastering is not only software - you also need very good monitors, good acoustics and a lot of experience.

Definitely, if you want a professional job done right. BUT...The gap is closing, just like it did with production, which used to require an actual studio. And since we're talking about netlabel music on a budget, it can safely be said that the age of budget in-the-box mastering is approaching, if not already here. I hate to get too far off the subject with speculation, but that's just the way our digital age works: Consumers will often choose semi-professional and cheap over professional and expensive. I haven't looked closely at mastering software, but I know it exists and is getting talked about.

 

Also, let's not forget this creative mastering trend, where sound engineer and music-maker have become increasingly united. Combine that with mastering software "for the masses", and you're going to have some interesting results, to say the least.

[NEMO.BOFH]

I am going to take a mastering course very soon, as soon as I can afford it, and after that I would also be up for mastering for free here and there. Great initiative! I am also moving my studio to a proper studio, not my studio at home, even though, I have now managed to get the acoustics somewhat right here, it is just impossible for me to create here :/

[chatnik aka alien]

Hello man, i have saw that you looking for someone who will work on mastering for your net label compilation. I can help You for a couple of compilations, of course for free.

You can check my mastering work on VA - Voice Of Sauron /// Ultiva Records

 

 

Cheers.

[Witch]

Mastering is not only software - you also need very good monitors, good acoustics and a lot of experience.

I can confirm this! Even if you got tones of software it's nothing more than toys on your PC without real good convertors + monitoring + acoustics and ofcose experience, which something that not comes over night! Also one thing i would like to add ---> Artist can not make proper mastering for own music! What ever he/she do, it's sounds good to him/her, cose of during long sessions brain simply adapted to this sound and he/she can not hear what's missing or needs to be added anymore!

 

On topic, hey Basilisk i tried to contact you several times on msn and by e.mail...but i had no answer from you! I wanted to give you some free music for your releases, but seems that your ignorance is bigger than YOU. Why you not replay and say thank you, but this is not what I'm looking for...or something like that!

 

Anyway if material for your next VA is suitable for mastering, i could probably do the job for very little price for you if you like to! I'm sorry, but i can not do it for free as at least my electricity bills has to pays.

 

Cheers

[Colin OOOD]

Also one thing i would like to add ---> Artist can not make proper mastering for own music! What ever he/she do, it's sounds good to him/her, cose of during long sessions brain simply adapted to this sound and he/she can not hear what's missing or needs to be added anymore!

Not always true I had a lot of good comments from people who really know their shit about the mastering I did for our Voice of Cod album. But yes - most often it really helps the sound for a different pair of ears to make the final overall adjustments.

[devious]

Mastering is not only software - you also need very good monitors, good acoustics and a lot of experience.

You're wrong about the very good monitors. Most mastering takes place on Yamaha NS10's in major production studios. Why? Because if you can get it to sound good on those crappy Yamaha's, it'll sound good on anything.

 

So if you want to make music? Have great monitors. But if you're going to master it, don't use your best speakers. Usually, you'll go from let's say those Yamaha's, and once you think you're finished, you'll have a do-over on your better monitors to finish the process. One set of monitors of very high quality is only going to get you mediocre results if that in the end. Must have crappy and good monitors

 

-d

[Witch]

Most mastering takes place on Yamaha NS10's in major production studios. Why? Because if you can get it to sound good on those crappy Yamaha's, it'll sound good on anything.

 

 

 

-d

I'm sorry, but what a bullshit statement

[devious]

I'm sorry, but what a bullshit statement

PLZDOTELL!

 

-d

[devious]

PLZDOTELL!

 

-d

For the record, I'd take the big names who do Hollywood production and such over somebody who would tell me otherwise who does trance and makes 10 dollars a year off his services. SRSLY!

 

My statement comes from lots of studying, and learning, and asking questions not from psynews, but from people who own hundred-thousand dollar studios who do this every day for their food on the plate.

 

So, I wonder, how is that a bullshit statement? Really, the NS-10's are referenced as studio monitors, but most big studios use them as their pair to make sure that they can get the proper sound so the mix can sound good on anything basically. We're talking 2 dollar speakers all the way up to your Adams, Events, Genelecs....It's just that way.

 

Do I need to reference big names who state this? Should I link you to their comments? I've been srsly evaluating monitors for the last month now and these come up quite a bit on a audio-pro site and yes, for someone making music, they're shitty, they're not recommended, but for somebody who's mastering, they're on a top list to have.

 

Fact is, not everybody has JBLs, or Infinity's or whatever else there is high-end in their cars, their computer speakers, etcetera. The Yamaha NS10's will compensate for this overall but I shouldn't argue with you, URJUZGUNNASAYIZBULLSHIT even if I link about 50 different owners of high-end mastering/production studios.

 

k? k!

 

-d

[devious]

Here's a quote from skidmore's academic site where they teach mastering:

 

"These are our Yamaha NS-10 studio monitors. They are used as our "near-field" monitors. They are a standard in the professional recording industry. Students often choose these monitors for their mixing work because they simulate the sound of smaller consumer speakers (car radio speakers, tv speakers, etc.). When mixing, it's important to try your mix over as many different sets of speakers (including headphones) as possible."

 

Should I quote about 200 more academic music schools as well as professional hollywood/industry standard studios? I guess for trance, everybody has a high end pair of monitors sitting around so it's best to have the best and not have crappy and the best. You'd be amazed if you were some poor bloke, listening to a psytrance mixdown - in a cd player with shitty speakers, like say, my radioshack computer speakers, or even plugged into a television set using the tv speaker as your sound - done on some Genelec 1032's or something. It would completely SUCK and that's why I think trance in general has poor quality, you can't just pop it in a cd player and hear the subtle layers of the mix, only the brighter parts. People and their "high end" mixing gear in electronic music who fail to see the proper procedure in doing a final mix down, then again, Trance's target aim isn't the consumer market in general, just a select few, I suppose.

 

-d

 

edit: i know this has been brought up before on psynews too, the quality of a mix down to the final product on shelves and how it sounds horribly mastered. i do honestly think a lot of it is this "must have AWESOME gear" while putting aside the actual technique used in professional recording studios that are making millions of dollars a year with their sales and it's not just the music, it's the quality of the product/the mix down that's being sold. Trance has always been the ultimate genre for attacks on mastering critique and I am beginning to wonder if it really isn't because the people mastering it suck, but because they just choose the best equipment possible that doesn't let them know what it really sounds like on everything else crappy which most of we consumers are constantly using anyways [like my computer speakers =]]

[Witch]

Dear devious i really don't want to argue with you and my apologies to the author of this topic for the flood!

 

NS10 omg yes, we had them in my college in mixing room years ago! Nice sweet monitors for reference purpose only! But NO WAY for mastering in any costs, i repeat is only reference monitors, same as my kitchen radio and car stereo of my granny. So, if master sounds OK on those, than it's certainly will be good on any sound system!

 

PEACE

[devious]

Dear devious i really don't want to argue with you and my apologies to the author of this topic for the flood!

 

NS10 omg yes, we had them in my college in mixing room years ago! Nice sweet monitors for reference purpose only! But NO WAY for mastering in any costs, i repeat is only reference monitors, same as my kitchen radio and car stereo of my granny. So, if master sounds OK on those, than it's certainly will be good on any sound system!

 

PEACE

Okay, how's this for example:

 

You take a crappy mix, you play it on mackies, events, genelec, adams, whatever nearfields in the mid to upper price range....it sounds okay, don't tell me it doesn't, they will make it warm and bright and fuzzy..and it will sound okay.

 

then you take that same crappy mix and you have it coming out the ugly aggressive ns10's, oh man this mix SUCKS!@# it's like a negative on the scale for listening while on the other monitors, it was like a 5-6 out of a rating of 10. as i said, a mediocre result. surely you can continue to go back and use the better gear and fix it, but it'll take a lot more time than just learning the crappy and non-bass responsive ns10's and just making it sound good on those crappy speakers in the first place.

 

that is why THEY, the NS10's are the de facto standard of all studios, period. you're right, end of argument.

 

:>

 

-d

[Colin OOOD]

Devious - Mixing /= mastering. Do some basic research before you spout off on topics like this. None of the mastering studios I've ever been in have used NS10s for mastering. Although they are excellent tools for mixing tracks on (as stated in your quote below), being as they are a kind of magnifying-glass for problems in the mids and highs, they are not accurate speakers - particularly in the low end - and that is needed in mastering.

 

I check my masters (and mixes) on a fairly crappy hi-fi, just to make sure or certain aspects; I'm confident my mastering translates well both to large PA setups and shitty laptop speakers. But no way would I use them as my primary monitors.

[Colin OOOD]

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here on D's part...

[Insejn]

http://www.timecode.co.za/mastering/

[devious]

Devious - Mixing /= mastering. Do some basic research before you spout off on topics like this. None of the mastering studios I've ever been in have used NS10s for mastering. Although they are excellent tools for mixing tracks on (as stated in your quote below), being as they are a kind of magnifying-glass for problems in the mids and highs, they are not accurate speakers - particularly in the low end - and that is needed in mastering.

 

I check my masters (and mixes) on a fairly crappy hi-fi, just to make sure or certain aspects; I'm confident my mastering translates well both to large PA setups and shitty laptop speakers. But no way would I use them as my primary monitors.

 

Well, here we go now, I guess I should say an American de facto standard, sorry:

 

www.audioplexus.com

CD Mastering Monitors ADAM S3A Three-way active with ribbon tweeters // DYNAUDIO AIR 6 Two-way Digigital AES // PMC TB2S-A Two-way Active // GENELEC 1029A // YAMAHA NS10 Powered Bryston 2B SST // Blue -4A 14" active sub woofer /

-------------------------

www.mastering1.com

Speakers

 

Yamaha NS10 Near Field Monitors

Main: JBL 4411 Control Monitors

--------------------------

www.donfury.com

Monitors / Power Amps:

JBL 4311

JBL 4408

Tannoy 6.5

Yamaha NS10

Hafler 3000 power amp

Hafler 7000 power amp

Crown DC300

QSC 4.0

-------------------------------

www.recyclemastering.com

Speakers: Yamaha MSP10, Dynaudio Acustics Speakers+Sub, Recycle VJSound design Speakers, KRK Professional Speakers for Surround, Yamaha NS-10 Speakers.

------------------------

 

Should I deploy some more links in defense? Maybe a few professional audio engineers who've been doing it longer than any of us have been alive?

 

-d

[Witch]

LOL hehehe....Dear devious, all your reference web sites examples shows NS10 in use of this studios and this is correct! But only one thing you misunderstood, the purpose of NS10 in all this studios.

 

So to make it clear once and forever:

NS10 used as reference monitors = kitchen radio !!! No one, i mean no one....did i say that no one....oh yes i did.....so, no one ever, ever......ever do any mastering works on NS10! All studios that having NS10 using them to check of sound compatibility to other sound systems, that all!