Music Design?

[Otto Matta]

Do you ever get the feeling when working with software that making electronic music is more like designing than composing? Has composition always been design-related in a way? I know some composers would sketch their works before filling in the notes, but is that the same thing? I definitely enjoy the process, but sometimes I feel like I'm working in Photoshop or Illustrator. Will there ever be a time when those of us who make music with software are called music designers?

 

When you talk to someone who is unfamiliar with making music, what do you call yourself? A composer? A songwriter? A producer? A music-maker? An electronic musician? A synthesist? None of these seem to fit exactly.

 

Has the process of making music fundamentally changed with software?

[Daniël]

Has the process of making music fundamentally changed with software?

yes, but who cares.

music making did not change, new possibilities were added.

[Otto Matta]

yes, but who cares.

music making did not change, new possibilities were added.

I agree. What would you call the role of this sort of music maker?

[Daniël]

audio engineer/technician

 

 

an audio engineer is a modern composer+alot more. BUt has limited knowledge on technical specifications of hard/software, he can use it, but can't repair them or create it.

 

 

an audio technician has less creative input than an engineer and just takes care of decent mixes and EQ, and proper hardware setup, also able to repair audiohardware and create audiosoftware.

[devious]

Honestly, I find it no different than somebody using a hardware sequencer already. It can be much more beneficial to use software for particularly sequencing since you have easy access to your sequence layout versus what I use which is a silly 2x32 character lcd display on my linn. This is my sequencer, and it rocks, and it's easy, but to delete a note, I have to hit the key on the keyboard right before it pops up. I can't just go back and delete it.

 

You, using software, are just as much as a producer as somebody using hardware. It's no different. It's the final product that counts. I will say that it's harder to do a live show with using a computer. I think it's dull, and perhaps boring. I could see one incorporated into a show with other hardware. But soley as a computer...just takes away from the performance value that live shows can bring.

 

As far as a synthesist goes, same thing applies. No different from somebody using hardware. It really just boils down to the final product and how listeners perceive your music and/or feel it.

 

It'll either be a good job or a bad job..from hardware....or....from.....software! We're all on the same level. Different mediums to do the job. I'd say "Electronic Producers" from all angles.

 

-d

 

Edit: for a good laugh, get used to using this for sequencing: [this is what I use, and it's probably the easiest hardware sequencer ever, at least for me, aside from step sequencers on like the tr/tbs and the electribes and such] This really takes about 2 hours to learn and fully understand, but is super powerful despite it being made in September of 1985!

 

 

 

I heart it!

[Otto Matta]

audio engineer/technician

an audio engineer is a modern composer+alot more. BUt has limited knowledge on technical specifications of hard/software, he can use it, but can't repair them or create it.

an audio technician has less creative input than an engineer and just takes care of decent mixes and EQ, and proper hardware setup, also able to repair audiohardware and create audiosoftware.

I think words like "engineer" and "technician" take all the art out of the equation. I know that audio engineers are somewhat creative in their own way, but not with the actual making of music. I think of them as doing the stuff that come after the music is made, mostly. "Audio technician" reminds me of someone who's messing with cables and hardware.

 

@devious: I think electronic [music] producer is about right, personally. Nice sequencer. Total beast, that thing. When you take breaks do you play Intellivision?

[devious]

@devious: I think electronic [music] producer is about right, personally. Nice sequencer. Total beast, that thing. When you take breaks do you play Intellivision?

The sequencer is cool, 10400 note capacity internally, 106000 capacity on 3 1/2" disk. I do like the Coleco Vision if that counts :-P

 

-d

[Reznik]

When you talk to someone who is unfamiliar with making music, what do you call yourself? A composer? A songwriter? A producer? A music-maker? An electronic musician? A synthesist? None of these seem to fit exactly.

i say, i produce electronic music.

[Aeros]

Artist encompasses all those and at essence art entails all acts of creation. But then the question is does one need to be an artist to recognize art and call it such?

 

The artist says everyone and everything is art...

 

To me music is artwork where sound is the canvas and people are the paint.

[Otto Matta]

Re-reading my original post, it seems like I might be in favor of calling us designers, which is not the case. What I wanted to get across is that the process can seem design-like, similar to, say, a complex graphic design program or even an architectural program like CAD, when what we are in fact doing is making music. And music is always performed by instruments, by people or, in our case, machines. Of course we all more or less have a romance with machines, but the programs themselves, at least to a layperson, and to me sometimes, resemble, in aesthetics and in process, design programs.

 

What I'm also interested in, regarding our music's relationship to design, is that for the most part we're attempting to achieve something similar, which is a "cool" and "hip" sensory experience (as opposed to, say, a "sculptural" one). In addition, the steps in the process are similar (production, post-production, etc.). In other words, it appears our kind of music making is a lot more similar to design than music making ever has been before. That's the computer's fault. We can start throwing photography and painting in there as well.

 

When I was studying architecture, at some point I discovered that designing buildings and structures is considered an "applied" art, rather than a "fine" art. Is our music increasingly becoming an applied art? Or...?

 

I'm thinking that this is ultimately something to walk away from, when one is ready, in order to make music the way it was meant to be made. But that's a vague statement. Anyway, it seems like a potentially interesting topic.

[NEMO.BOFH]

why is it so important to label every little thing?

[Otto Matta]

why is it so important to label every little thing?

I don't know, but it should be "Religion is for those who cannot see!" in your signature.

 

How about some thoughts from the adults?

[NEMO.BOFH]

I don't know, but it should be "Religion is for those who cannot see!" in your signature.

 

How about some thoughts from the adults?

oh otto, get over it already you are soooch a cry baby sometimes. i just want to know why it is so damn important to label something? i mean, I play bass and guitar so that would make me a musician, but when I do music with the computer, I am not, then im a sound designer? I mean, sounds fancy and all, probably better than musician. But I have found out that people with the urgent need to label themselves are the ones that have problems with their identity normally. I AM a network technician/engineer, I am a certified NAS/SAN engineer, I am a certified.... but I never use those titles... they are just silly.

 

So, why not just stick with the good old terms: Musician, Producer and Sound Engineer?

 

(Oh, and my quote is directly taken from someone that actually SAID IT WITH AN S! It should have been Religions ARE... but nevermind mr. Nitpick)

[Otto Matta]

 

Nemo, you're like that brat kid who won't go away no matter how much you slap the crap out of him. Please only post if you've got something grown-up to say. Pleeeease? There's enough stuff for brat kids who don't feel like reading before they respond in off-topic, no?

 

Okay, so you think that "musician", "producer" or "sound engineer" is what Beethoven called himself? No. He was a composer. What has changed since then? A lot. Given that a lot has changed, what do we call ourselves? Producers?

 

You're out on a date with a girl you don't know very well and she asks you what you enjoy doing. You say "producing"? "Engineering"? No.

 

You're at a wedding and a stiff academic asks you what you do. You say "production"? He'll ask what kind of production. "Electronic music production"? "Really? Like John Adams?" No. That's different. He was kind of a composer, although he wrote electronic "classical" music. "I write contemporary electronic music, but it's not classical. It's made for dancing."

 

"Contemporary Electronic Dance Music Producers"?

 

Doesn't have the same succinctness as "composer". But we're not composers. Why? Why can't we be composers? That's an issue, I think. What's the difference between composing and what we do? What we do is manipulate graphics on a screen that merely represent the instruments. Is that like the notes that Beethoven would write on a piece of parchment? Is it? No.

 

So?

[NEMO.BOFH]

Nemo, you're like that brat kid who won't go away no matter how much you slap the crap out of him. Please only post if you've got something grown-up to say. Pleeeease? There's enough stuff for brat kids who don't feel like reading before they respond in off-topic, no?

 

You asked a question, I counter asked a question. Why is it important to label something? Is it cause we dont like actually talking about what we do, and with a quick definition we can go on to the next subject? I find that people talk less and less with each other nowadays, and use stupid technical terms that noone understands anyways, which makes discussion and argumentation boring.

 

Okay, so you think that "musician", "producer" or "sound engineer" is what Beethoven called himself? No. He was a composer. What has changed since then? A lot. Given that a lot has changed, what do we call ourselves? Producers?

 

Producers, why not?

 

You're out on a date with a girl you don't know very well and she asks you what you enjoy doing. You say "producing"? "Engineering"? No.

 

Well, instead of using a label, I would explain what I do, that I create music. If a label is needed to explain I would say Musician.

 

You're at a wedding and a stiff academic asks you what you do. You say "production"? He'll ask what kind of production. "Electronic music production"? "Really? Like John Adams?" No. That's different. He was kind of a composer, although he wrote electronic "classical" music. "I write contemporary electronic music, but it's not classical. It's made for dancing."

 

"I produce electronic dance music with help of computers and other electronic equipment" if I label it wrong, the discussion would pretty much die within seconds, cause he would not understand the label.

 

Doesn't have the same succinctness as "composer". But we're not composers. Why? Why can't we be composers? That's an issue, I think. What's the difference between composing and what we do? What we do is manipulate graphics on a screen that merely represent the instruments. Is that like the notes that Beethoven would write on a piece of parchment? Is it? No.

 

Maybe that is how you work, but I work with a keyboard and a guitar, I play notes on that keyboard or chords on the guitar. I rarely DRAW notes. I am no piano player, though. Its just another way of working, I can sit without even the computer being on, and just play, write down what I played, and then I open up the computer to re-create what I have just done. The computer is merely a tool to re-create my ideas and COMPOSITIONS.

 

But given the above answer from you, you are not a composer, nor a musician, you draw your music, and therefor maybe you ARE a sound designer... sounds fancy, must give you that.

 

edit: ok, I admit, I have drawn a couple of basslines in my time as a musician!

[Otto Matta]

Re-reading my original post, it seems like I might be in favor of calling us designers, which is not the case.

Okay, Nemo, since this is a difficult topic for you, let me ask you two more straightforward questions: Since you make "COMPOSITIONS", would you feel it was safe to call yourself a composer? Why or why not?

[NEMO.BOFH]

Okay, Nemo, since this is a difficult topic for you, let me ask you two more straightforward questions: Since you make "COMPOSITIONS", would you feel it was safe to call yourself a composer? Why or why not?

nah, only reading your first intitial post, and the others following before replying. anyways, composer yes. Cause I compose or write music, with the aid of a computer. I am going to take piano lessons (already done some online, but I feel I need a teacher actually). I also want to learn how to write notes (my system is based on keys). I think in the end we are all Composers of some kind, and yeah, electronic music is an art form of its own, it is music nevertheless. No? Listening to some of your music (you per) I would say you are also a Composer, or well, if you prefer Producer.

 

My initial post was not to disagree, it was a question why we feel the urge to label ourselves so urgently (like daniel). I think you read into it a little bit too much, though. And of course, if you treat me like a kid with your reply, I am going to satisfy you with behaving like one

 

Of course, you will always have people saying "Ahh so you are a dj?"... cause they just don not understand what you are doing/creating. But in those situations, you just have to keep the "electronic" part out in the discussion, and they will think of you as a musician or composer. It is really hard to explain to some people what you are doing, though. I agree!

 

Are you a composer?

[Reznik]

"Electronic music production"?

exactly otto!

[acidkills]

Interesting.. I read on some proggy mixed compilation similar stuff. .

The guy said, we are like painters, we take silence and add colours to it.. Or somehing like that, but it was cool..

[Colin OOOD]

Surely how you describe yourself depends totally on the person you're talking to? I start off by saying "I do music" and then answer whatever questions the person has. You need to describe it in terms the other person will understand. 'Composer' is a perfectly adequate term for describing the creation of a piece of music from scratch, for those who think of things in those terms.

 

As far as the 'Music Design' thing goes, to me there are three kinds of electronic music producers: musicians, technicians and those who combine the two areas to make the good shit.

[devious]

I really don't know if Beethoven called himself a composer. I know that's what we call them, but I wonder what terms they referred to themselves as? I bet they called themselves hooligans!

 

 

-d

[NEMO.BOFH]

I really don't know if Beethoven called himself a composer. I know that's what we call them, but I wonder what terms they referred to themselves as? I bet they called themselves hooligans!

 

 

-d

i think I read somewhere that Mozart called himself "Komponist" and "Capellmeister"

[devious]

i think I read somewhere that Mozart called himself "Komponist" and "Capellmeister"

For those of us who don't know, me included:

 

Ca`pell´meis`ter

n. 1. The musical director in a royal or ducal chapel; a choir-master.

 

And Komponist appears to be a foreigners way of saying composer, yeah? I can't translate all the foreign links google brought up hahahaha :-D

 

-d

[NEMO.BOFH]

For those of us who don't know, me included:

 

Ca`pell´meis`ter

n. 1. The musical director in a royal or ducal chapel; a choir-master.

 

And Komponist appears to be a foreigners way of saying composer, yeah? I can't translate all the foreign links google brought up hahahaha :-D

 

-d

Komponist is the German word for Composer.

[needle ninja]

I'm a Sound Anarchist