buzzman Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 As you can see by the list that Nemo posted there are actually women who try to do so (stand up for themselves and make music). Do they get any suppoort from the people here? Obvisously not, instead people like you bitch about them because there are not more women doing the same. And not only that, you even expect them to not only producse psy but also to produce a new way of psy and since they don't, more bitching. Go figure... Whos bitching? Im not... And maby im just uninformed but i dont really know any of the names he posted... Gen6, miranda, mossy moody i know, and didn't know they were women... And i don't EXPECT them to create a new way of psy, i concluded that it could happen, because of the different way womens brain works It would be interesting to here what they have to offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 Oh and another thing: Exactly with the point you are making in your first sentence women were not allowed to study at the universities, to vote or to take certain jobs not so long ago. Interesting, isn't it? Its not a point IM making, its a scientific fact Womens brains work different... Not that it is a bad thing... But its still true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panda-hugger Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 As you can see by the list that Nemo posted there are actually women who try to do so (stand up for themselves and make music). Do they get any suppoort from the people here? Obvisously not, instead people like you bitch about them because there are not more women doing the same. And not only that, you even expect them to not only producse psy but also to produce a new way of psy and since they don't, more bitching. Go figure... T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panda-hugger Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Whoa. people should be judged on their output. regardless on gender imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Whos bitching? Im not... And maby im just uninformed but i dont really know any of the names he posted... Gen6, miranda, mossy moody i know, and didn't know they were women... And i don't EXPECT them to create a new way of psy, i concluded that it could happen, because of the different way womens brain works It would be interesting to here what they have to offer Some people in this thread (*cough* Ormion) I also don't know all the names but there are some that are rather well-known in the scene, Sally Doolally, Gen6 or Stella Nutella for example. Yes of course it could, but imho they actually need some support and even more important some more time. As I've said in my first post, if you expect women to catch up with men only a few years later after they were just given the same opportunities as men, that's not exactly realistic imho. It's the same in politics, less women than men but women are catching up. Edit: had to correct a typo with "men" and "women". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Its not a point IM making, its a scientific fact Womens brains work different... Not that it is a bad thing... But its still true Yes, but some people here imply that this different way of working makes it impossible for women to achieve the same things as men (women are less creative for example). Similar as it was used in the past to prevent women from voting, from going to uni and so on. Interesting, isn't it? Edit: And by saying Maby it actually would be a good thing if more women stood up for themselves you think it could be a good thing but so far it's not, meaning the male way of thinking is still better or better developped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 Yes, but some people here imply that this different way of working makes it impossible for women to achieve the same things as men (women are less creative for example). Similar as it was used in the past to prevent women from voting, from going to uni and so on. Interesting, isn't it? yeah it's interesting, and in some ways i can understand you... But making music isn't rocket science or being a president, and because women couln't vote 50 years ago, i can't see what that has to do with their creativity in the music scene? Many male artists aren't older than 20-25 years, so they could just as well be women, as the old discrimination haven't affected people in that age... am i right? But stella gnutella? Is it older stuff? Cous i haven't been in the scene for more than a couple of years, haven't heard of her... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 you think it could be a good thing but so far it's not, meaning the male way of thinking is still better or better developped. No, meaning that there isn't many psytrance producers I would be happy to here more women doing there thing, and will go straight home after work and check out some of the artist nemo posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Some people in this thread (*cough* Ormion) I also don't know all the names but there are some that are rather well-known in the scene, Sally Doolally, Gen6 or Stella Nutella for example. Yes of course it could, but imho they actually need some support and even more important some more time. As I've said in my first post, if you expect women to catch up with men only a few years later after they were just given the same opportunities as men, that's not exactly realistic imho. It's the same in politics, less women than men but women are catching up. Edit: had to correct a typo with "men" and "women". I'm bitching? I'm bitching? God, I'm gonna pull my hair and eat it!!! Ok, from now on I will not say my opinion ever again, because ppl disagree with me and accuse me for things I never said! 1. Imagination doesn't mean intelligence!!! I have a cousin who's studies surgery, he's the smarter man I know but he doesn't have any imagination at all and he admits that. What's wrong to not have any imagination? He's good in other things. 2. Women in generally are not interested in creating music. Like Pavel said, go to a music school (about producers not singers) and you always see that men are most. 3. Women were always more interested in realism, unlike a big amount of men who are interested in fantasy. There's nothing wrong about that! 4. Every race, every sex and every individual being has some specific characteristics. Black people for example are always better in sports than white people. Why? Because their bodies are genetically better for action and movements. Is that a bad thing? That means that white people are inferior? Or black people are stupid? Get serious!!! 5. I agree that even today in a small degree, the stereotypical role of the woman is not to be very creative, but if you believe that in modrn societies women are not that creative because men are hold them down, sorry but that's pure feministic crap! 6. What some people do here is Reverse Racism. They want to fight racism or sexism so much that they are ready to crucify anyone that has a different opinion about the politically correct perfect world where everyone is suppose to be equal to anything! Perfect world means that every human being has the same rights, not that every human being must be the same with others. Some ppl are better in maths, some better in philosophy. Some are better in sports, some are better in reading. Some are better in speaking, some are better in writing. Some are better in create art, some are better in understanding art. Some can draw the best paintings, others can't hold a pen. Fucking face it!!! When I said that most women don't have imagination, I never meant that women are inferior! They better in other stuff! SIMPLE AS THAT!!! And I will not tolerate by anyone to call me pig or sexist because they can't understand one simple statement!!! That is fucking enough!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 I understand Ormion, i just didn't dare to say anything... Some people here seem to twist whats being sayd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I'm bitching? I'm bitching? God, I'm gonna pull my hair and eat it!!! Ok, from now on I will not say my opinion ever again, because ppl disagree with me and accuse me for things I never said! 1. Imagination doesn't mean intelligence!!! I have a cousin who's studies surgery, he's the smarter man I know but he doesn't have any imagination at all and he admits that. What's wrong to not have any imagination? He's good in other things. 2. Women in generally are not interested in creating music. Like Pavel said, go to a music school (about producers not singers) and you always see that men are most. 3. Women were always more interested in realism, unlike a big amount of men who are interested in fantasy. There's nothing wrong about that! 4. Every race, every sex and every individual being has some specific characteristics. Black people for example are always better in sports than white people. Why? Because their bodies are genetically better for action and movements. Is that a bad thing? That means that white people are inferior? Or black people are stupid? Get serious!!! 5. I agree that even today in a small degree, the stereotypical role of the woman is not to be very creative, but if you believe that in modrn societies women are not that creative because men are hold them down, sorry but that's pure feministic crap! 6. What some people do here is Reverse Racism. They want to fight racism or sexism so much that they are ready to crucify anyone that has a different opinion about the politically correct perfect world where everyone is suppose to be equal to anything! Perfect world means that every human being has the same rights, not that every human being must be the same with others. Some ppl are better in maths, some better in philosophy. Some are better in sports, some are better in reading. Some are better in speaking, some are better in writing. Some are better in create art, some are better in understanding art. Some can draw the best paintings, others can't hold a pen. Fucking face it!!! When I said that most women don't have imagination, I never meant that women are inferior! They better in other stuff! SIMPLE AS THAT!!! And I will not tolerate by anyone to call me pig or sexist because they can't understand one simple statement!!! That is fucking enough!!! There's nothing wrong with somebody having no imagination or with somebody not being able to study a certain subject becuause he is not intelligent enough. You say it yourself: some people are better with arts, some are better with sports and some are better with science but saying that this has to do with gender and that all women are good with the same things is imho simply not true. Do you have anything to back up your statement that women don't have imagination besides that fact that there are less women in music than men? As if attending a music class or knowing how to use a synthesizer or how to play a musical instrument alone makes you more creative... From what I can tell there are a lot of women writing, drawing, painting, or making music (maybe not electronical music) including making their own songs. Maybe they are not as famous as some male counterparts (I'm talking about creative work in general, not music only) but does only being famous label you as creative then? Mabye people (or at least I) would not label you as sexist if you could back your statement up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I understand Ormion, i just didn't dare to say anything... Some people here seem to twist whats being sayd This happens all the time man, especially in the Off Topic section. I'm in this forum for 5 years and this must be the first time I got that angry, but I can't handle it anymore. I love women and I think they're marvellous beings, so when people me accuse me for racist it's the worst that someone can call me. There's nothing wrong with somebody having no imagination or with somebody not being able to study a certain subject becuause he is not intelligent enough. You say it yourself: some people are better with arts, some are better with sports and some are better with science but saying that this has to do with gender and that all women are good with the same things is imho simply not true. Do you have anything to back up your statement that women don't have imagination besides that fact that there are less women in music than men? As if attending a music class or knowing how to use a synthesizer or how to play a musical instrument alone makes you more creative... From what I can tell there are a lot of women writing, drawing, painting, or making music (maybe not electronical music) including making their own songs. Maybe they are not as famous as some male counterparts (I'm talking about creative work in general, not music only) but does only being famous label you as creative then? Mabye people (or at least I) would not label you as sexist if you could back your statement up a bit. I've never said that all the women don't have imagination. Ok, maybe the 95% was an excession, but yeah I still believe that. The problem Tatsu is that you think that men and women are the same. They are not! They have differences and that's not a bad thing. Men are good in some things, women are good in others. The end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Re-read what I've wrote.you said you agree with ormion. so do you, or do you NOT agree that women have less imagination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapinho Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 This happens all the time man, especially in the Off Topic section. I'm in this forum for 5 years and this must be the first time I got that angry, but I can't handle it anymore. I love women and I think they're marvellous beings, so when people me accuse me for racist it's the worst that someone can call me. Indeed, since when are women a race? Oh wait, maybe they are too. That would explain everything and make this whole discussion redundant. Maybe it's simply a coincidence we can crossbreed. Jeez, God works in mysterious ways... I don't agree totally with Ormion, because the fact that there are less famous female artists doesn't necessarily have to do with them having less imagination or something. Maybe it's because women always had to clean the house and take care of the kids, while the men could roam freely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 i think I got the answer why there is less female members on this board than on any other board anyways, im not going to discuss this further, there is no use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 i think I got the answer why there is less female members on this board than on any other board anyways, im not going to discuss this further, there is no use. Yes! It's Ormion's fault! BTW why don't we don't have more black people here? What I believe is that they prefer other kinds of music. OMG I'm a fucking racist!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 This happens all the time man, especially in the Off Topic section. I'm in this forum for 5 years and this must be the first time I got that angry, but I can't handle it anymore. I love women and I think they're marvellous beings, so when people me accuse me for racist it's the worst that someone can call me. I've never said that all the women don't have imagination. Ok, maybe the 95% was an excession, but yeah I still believe that. The problem Tatsu is that you think that men and women are the same. They are not! They have differences and that's not a bad thing. Men are good in some things, women are good in others. The end. Well, if you say all women or just 95% doesn't make much of a difference to me, sorry. Btw I'm not saying that men and women are the same or even think the same, they are not and they don't have to be. But just because men and women behave different or think in a different way does not mean the can't have the same talents in the end. Again, do you have anything to back you statement up? Are there no female writes, painters, poets or musician in your world? Or is the percentage (as example) of male writers to female writes 80% - 20%? When I go in a library that's quite far from that, and I'm talking about the fiction department here and not about cookbooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Well, if you say all women or just 95% doesn't make much of a difference to me, sorry. Btw I'm not saying that men and women are the same or even think the same, they are not and they don't have to be. But just because men and women behave different or think in a different way does not mean the can't have the same talents in the end. Again, do you have anything to back you statement up? Are there no female writes, painters, poets or musician in your world? Or is the percentage (as example) of male writers to female writes 80% - 20%? When I go in a library that's quite far from that, and I'm talking about the fiction department here and not about cookbooks. There are, they're just the minority. You can blind me or brainwash me if you want, but that's what I see. As simple as a sentence can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 There are, they're just the minority. You can blind me or brainwash me if you want, but that's what I see. As simple as a sentence can get. The famous ones are in the minority, that's for sure. But again: does being famous alone means you are creative? Have you thought about the possibility that maybe less women than men have the urge to get big with what they are doing instead of just doing it for the sake of it or for their own pleasure? Women are also known (since we're talking in chlichées here) to have a sense for decoration or professions like hairdressers or make-up artists, of course professiones where you don't have to be creative at all. So far your only back up for your theory of who's creative and who's not is that you think it is that way and because of that it's a fact. Not exactly convicening, maybe even a big ignorant. And before you get back at me with that: I'm not saying that men are less creative than women, I'm just saying being creative has fucking nothing to do with gender at all. Sames as being intelligent hasn't btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The famous ones are in the minority, that's for sure. But again: does being famous alone means you are creative? Have you thought about the possibility that maybe less women than men have the urge to get big with what they are doing instead of just doing it for the sake of it or for their own pleasure? Women are also known (since we're talking in chlichées here) to have a sense for decoration or professions like hairdressers or make-up artists, of course professiones where you don't have to be creative at all. So far your only back up for your theory of who's creative and who's not is that you think it is that way and because of that it's a fact. Not exactly convicening, maybe even a big ignorant. And before you get back at me with that: I'm not saying that men are less creative than women, I'm just saying being creative has fucking nothing to do with gender at all. Sames as being intelligent hasn't btw. Okay that's your opinion. I have mine. Is that a bad thing? Does this gives to anyone the right to call me pig? After all you are a woman and I can understand why you got offended. I believe that gender has something to do with creativity. Scientific researches prove it, but I don't care about them really. I say what I see. Like I said women are better in logic. Also it seems that women have better memory than men. I'm a man and I don't get upset about that. I believe it. Just like I believe that the black race is superior to any kind of sports. And don't say to me that black people had or have the oppportunities to prove that. So, I'm a racist against white ppl? No one have answered to my question though. Why dnon't we have more psy girls? Do you think that labels or listeners sabotage them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 you said you agree with ormion. so do you, or do you NOT agree that women have less imagination? Women is from venus, men from mars... I wouldn't say that women has NO imagination... And i don't think that was exaclty what ormion ment.... But simply a guess that they don't have as much creativity to make music and stufff... But creativity to organize living rooms and other stuff, they are far superior to men i think... So this is actually a stupid discussion, and not what my intentions waz with this topic... And i think you take everything to literaly, sometimes it can be difficult to express yourself in the right way to be understanded... and thats what happened here with ormion(i think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Women is from venus, men from mars... I wouldn't say that women has NO imagination... And i don't think that was exaclty what ormion ment.... But simply a guess that they don't have as much creativity to make music and stufff... But creativity to organize living rooms and other stuff, they are far superior to men i think... So this is actually a stupid discussion, and not what my intentions waz with this topic... And i think you take everything to literaly, sometimes it can be difficult to express yourself in the right way to be understanded... and thats what happened here with ormion(i think) Exactly Buzz! There are tasks that women are superior to men. They have patience and can be creative in things we find boring. Anyway, that's my last reply in this thread. If anyone got offended sorry, but after all that's how a sexist, racist, cavepig talks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Okay that's your opinion. I have mine. Is that a bad thing? Does this gives to anyone the right to call me pig? After all you are a woman and I can understand why you got offended. I believe that gender has something to do with creativity. Scientific researches prove it, but I don't care about them really. I say what I see. Like I said women are better in logic. Also it seems that women have better memory than men. I'm a man and I don't get upset about that. I believe it. Just like I believe that the black race is superior to any kind of sports. And don't say to me that black people had or have the oppportunities to prove that. So, I'm a racist against white ppl? No one have answered to my question though. Why dnon't we have more psy girls? Do you think that labels or listeners sabotage them? Imho it's sexist and degrading to say one gender is creative and one is not, same as it would be saying one gender is more intelligent and one is not. I've never heard of any of those researches, care to post a link or something or give me at least a name of a report so I can google myself? I'm very curious to read about those researches and to make up my mind. And btw. I did give one of the reasons why I think there are less women in music business than men, I also think the number will increase with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 You can call me a pig, but this is what I believe. Yes, women have little imagination. They work more with logic. This I don't understand. My girlfriend, pretty much like my previous girlfriends, is totally devoid of any logic. I am on the other hand far too logical. She's really creative though & can make anything if she puts her mind to it (she's really into animation & she's good at it). I think there are not that many women producing psy because there are not that many women that are really into psy! Whenever I go to a party it's mostly guys there & the women I do meet are there becasue of their boyfriends. Of course there are girls there who love psy but then again as lauryn illustrated the are women producing also. The percentage is smaller but I think it reflects the ratio of men:women that are really into psy! Personally I don't know any ladies into psy I'd love my bird to be really into it but she merely tolerates it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 And btw. I did give one of the reasons why I think there are less women in music business than men, I also think the number will increase with time. Tatsu, you think that because that women couldn't vote 50 years ago, this has something to do with this? Caus MANY artists arent a day older than 30, so this shouldn't really have affected them shouldn't it`? And isn't that sexist to say? That is the same thing as saying all men is feeling superior to women, and that all men is depressing womens tatents? We could go on and on with this i see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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