Let's talk about Downloading and piracy

[NEMO.BOFH]

Have you?

They're still extremelly dissapointing. The new 40 GB system has boosted the sales a lot, but it's still pwned by the other two consoles in all three big markets.

 

I agree with Daniel about Blu Ray .....and HD-DVD.

Most ppl simply don't give a damn about those two products. I know cause I work in a video store. The fact that the industry is half and half is plain ridiculous too. I mean the new Transformers movie has been released only in HD-DVD, can you imagine how bumped the Blu Ray owners would be with that? The same about the Blu Ray exclusively releases.

 

Also, both Blu Ray and HD-DVD offer nothing more that more quality. And more capacity too, but I'm talking about the entertainment features.

HD quality means nothing for most movies IMO. Who cares that much about high definition for a movie that's not a special effects festival?

 

I'm not saying that DVD will stay forever, but ppl that thought that Blu Ray and HD-DVD would eliminate DVD in a period of two years are simply arrogant.

 

And here's a tip from a guy that works in a video store. 70% of our costumers have no any idea what Blu Ray or HD-DVD are. You know, I know, but most ppl don't.

 

Sorry, for going off topic

If you compare sales from month to month, sales of the ps3 is higher than both of the other mentioned. and yes, because of the 40gb price drop. In the end, Blue Ray or HD-DVD will take over the market, and whoever wins, will also win the NEW audio format market. So either case, I will not have to show my penis on psynews in 10 years

[Tatsu]

Honey, you said:

 

4. Do you think that downloading (and any other forms of piracy) really hurt the Psytrance industry?

 

Yes, imho it hurts psy and other less commercial styles way more than the commercial releases since psy has less listeners and buyers than commercial stuff to begin with. That's why I try to buy as much as possible. And because I love the music of course.

 

You said that it hurts the psy scene. This is what I am discussing. I dont think it does.

Yes I did and as you quoted yourself I said imho. And indeed that's what I think: IMHO it hurts artists like OOOD if they sell, let's say 500 copies, less because the people can easy download their album on the net. More than maybe Madonna if some people download her album. This is my personal feeling and it might be wrong but a comment from an involved artisted like Collin would enlighten me more about the situation than your I will tattoo my balls comment. I also fail to see the connection between the topic and the fact that you spend the time you used to spend in record stores in front of the PC now. I mean so do I but I don't buy more or less CDs because of that.

[Ormion]

If you compare sales from month to month, sales of the ps3 is higher than both of the other mentioned. and yes, because of the 40gb price drop. In the end, Blue Ray or HD-DVD will take over the market, and whoever wins, will also win the NEW audio format market. So either case, I will not have to show my penis on psynews in 10 years

 

That's incorrect my friend Trust me I know everything about video games sales. This happening only in some European countries.

Still, I believe that will need a solution about this stupid Blu Ray- HD-DVD battle. It's ridiculous.

But I do believe that DVD has many-many years of life.

 

That's the last off topic I went, promise

[NEMO.BOFH]

Yes I did and as you quoted yourself I said imho. And indeed that's what I think: IMHO it hurts artists like OOOD if they sell, let's say 500 copies, less because the people can easy download their album on the net. More than maybe Madonna if some people download her album. This is my personal feeling and it might be wrong but a comment from an involved artisted like Collin would enlighten me more about the situation than your I will tattoo my balls comment. I also fail to see the connection between the topic and the fact that you spend the time you used to spend in record stores in front of the PC now.

I know for a fact how much OOOD sold on the first Cabbaged Release... but Im going to let him take this part of the discussion. I was actually selling that release in my record shop, and I was a partner with the distro that distributed it back then.

 

I doubt ANY artist will actually (except colin or jikkenteki) will ever tell the TRUTH about sales and how much they ACTUALLY make...

 

the balls tattooing comment was for DANIEL!

 

How can you fail to see the fact that I actually spent 2-4 hours a day in a record shop listening and buying before, when I can spend 2 hours at home now? I mean that I listen to my releases at home, and then decide to order or not. Saves me time. Yes, I miss going to the record shop, but I am not 20 anymore, and I have a child to tend hehe.

 

Edit: Everything is not a reply directly at you, but also to the topic as whole, babe

[NEMO.BOFH]

That's incorrect my friend Trust me I know everything about video games sales. This happening only in some European countries.

Still, I believe that will need a solution about this stupid Blu Ray- HD-DVD battle. It's ridiculous.

But I do believe that DVD has many-many years of life.

 

That's the last off topic I went, promise

OF course I am wrong.

[Tatsu]

I know for a fact how much OOOD sold on the first Cabbaged Release... but Im going to let him take this part of the discussion. I was actually selling that release in my record shop, and I was a partner with the distro that distributed it back then.

 

I doubt ANY artist will actually (except colin or jikkenteki) will ever tell the TRUTH about sales and how much they ACTUALLY make...

 

the balls tattooing comment was for DANIEL!

 

How can you fail to see the fact that I actually spent 2-4 hours a day in a record shop listening and buying before, when I can spend 2 hours at home now? I mean that I listen to my releases at home, and then decide to order or not. Saves me time. Yes, I miss going to the record shop, but I am not 20 anymore, and I have a child to tend hehe.

Again, I never quoted any sales figures and I also didn't say OOOD for example sold less or more than with their last album. That's not my point.

 

I don't fail to see the fact of time saving. I fail to see the connection between time saving for prelistening and selling more CDs, at least when I judge because of the people around me. For me time is absolutley not the main issue here, it's mainly money (I think you should be glad that it's vice versa for you then ).

[NEMO.BOFH]

Again, I never quoted any sales figures and I also didn't say OOOD for example sold less or more than with their last album. That's not my point.

 

I don't fail to see the fact of time saving. I fail to see the connection between time saving for prelistening and selling more CDs, at least when I judge because of the people around me. For me time is absolutley not the main issue here, it's mainly money (I think you should be glad that it's vice versa for you then ).

read my edit

[Tatsu]

read my edit

Well, if you quote my posts I take it you are actually replying to me!

[Ormion]

OF course I am wrong.

Plz tell me that this is not irony.

Sorry if I sounded like the ''i know everything'' guy, but I have around 100 different charts about vgames sales. My best friend is a vgames freak and he mail them to me every day! (apparently without a reason).

[Jikkenteki]

let's get back to business.

Playstation 3 should have been the big multimedia revelation to start the blu ray revolution.

But PS3 didn't do too wel...

Blu ray is loosing ground against HD-DVD. Viacom has abandoned blu ray, although this is not a knock out, it certainly is an uppercut. Blu ray still has most of the Hollywood studios but I think blu ray will loose the commercial market, but it will have a long & succesfull life on the professional video market.

In Japan HD-DVD is almost completely non-existent, while Bu-ray discs are available at nearly every video store I go to and are also available for rent in most places. I think I've seen a HD-DVD disc MAYBE once. True Playstation 3 didn't make the splash Sony was hoping for, mostly because Nintendo's Wii is a bit more popular (although in all honesty, none of the major video game platforms is doing particularly well at the moment. X-Box is a non-issue in Japan and Playstation 3's issue at the moment seems to be mostly a lack of good games so people are going to Wii by default. That said the true king of video games in Japan at the moment is actually Nintendo DS), but recently I've been seeing blu-ray players making there way into stores and ads for them on TV. And during all of this, never a peep from HD-DVD. I'd say the battle is still far from over, one way or the other.

[Daniël]

Edit: BAN mp3, make it so noone can listen to any mp3 anymore on ANY system on the earth, and i BET you a tattoo on my balls, that sales will go down even further.

Mp3 shouldn't be banned. It's a good thing. But it's fundaments are based upon open-source, so it's pure logic it is exploited.

All this talk about sales that drop & rise is about money.

I'm not going to speculate about money and numbers.

But i have a question for you.

 

How do you feel about respect to artists by downloading their work if you know they are not happy about it?

Forget the money & numbers, forget the labels & stuff.

 

imagine a face to face conversation with an artist you illegally downloaded music from and he just told you he hates it.

What would you say?

a. "oh you fucking capitalistic pig, open your fucking eyes and get a real job"

b. " I'm sorry, i was unaware of the fact you made this and just downloaded it cause i love it, i'll reconcider in the future"

c. something else

 

It's this question that actually drives me to the anti piracy camp. I'm option B, to the bone!

 

ps:a tattoo on your balls is painfull. I'm allready waiting for the RIAA's announcement to ban Mp3's.

[Ormion]

In Japan HD-DVD is almost completely non-existent, while Bu-ray discs are available at nearly every video store I go to and are also available for rent in most places. I think I've seen a HD-DVD disc MAYBE once. True Playstation 3 didn't make the splash Sony was hoping for, mostly because Nintendo's Wii is a bit more popular (although in all honesty, none of the major video game platforms is doing particularly well at the moment. X-Box is a non-issue in Japan and Playstation 3's issue at the moment seems to be mostly a lack of good games so people are going to Wii by default. That said the true king of video games in Japan at the moment is actually Nintendo DS), but recently I've been seeing blu-ray players making there way into stores and ads for them on TV. And during all of this, never a peep from HD-DVD. I'd say the battle is still far from over, one way or the other.

 

Haha, Japan hates anything related to Microsoft!!!

[Jikkenteki]

is there ANY proof that psytrance sells less than it did before?

Last year in an interview Saiko sounds said that overall their sales had increased, but the sales per title have gone down since there are so many titles. That side, my sources in distribution in Japan tell me that in the last year overall sales have dropped between 50% and 70% very rapidly.

[Jikkenteki]

Haha, Japan hates anything related to Microsoft!!!

Not true, the majority of computers and such here are Microsoft. It's just that Microsoft doesn't have a clue how to advertise to a Japanese market. I think the blu-ray/hd-dvd thing here will be a much bigger issue MUCH sooner than everywhere else because huge high definition televisions and such are a big deal here. In 2011 Japan will completely stop using analog transmission for television and everything will go digital, so the beginnings of a price war for large high definition digital tvs have already begun. In the middle of this push has come the blu-ray push as well. And from HD-DVD... almost not a word yet.

[rino]

I know for a fact how much OOOD sold on the first Cabbaged Release... but Im going to let him take this part of the discussion. I was actually selling that release in my record shop, and I was a partner with the distro that distributed it back then.

I would adore to know how much copies of "aLive" were actually sold. I adore that album. I seriously do. It is not often brought up when essential old school classics are discussed, but in my opinion their debut belongs in any discussion of the type. But yeah, a few years back I recall reading somewhere that due to distribution issue the release was a commercial flop

 

Going back to mars well thought out and detailed post, I must say I more or less agree with it all, but... Just like mars, myself or most probably any other forum user here, we all use to get allowances from our parents, we all use to count every coin we had and we were all sometimes torn apart between getting drunk out with our friends or buying a new CD/t-shirt/computer game/whatever. I was never rich, but didn't have to eat one meal a day either. See, I use to buy CDs when I was a kid. Not often, but I use to do it. Made me happy and it felt good going out and buying albums by The Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Underworld and other big acts of the era. Then, as today, youngsters were always the music industry's primary target. To my knowledge, p2p programs were not yet around, and even if they were, I had no internet at home. My point is, if one has the habit of buying music, if one is ready to make a sacrifice for it, then money will be no issue. Of coarse it is hard to make ends meet in a manner of being able to go out, regularly visit the cinema, taking your girlfriend out for a few drinks, paying entrance fees at club entrances, and then buying CDs to top it all off. Nobody says it is easy, but it isn't hard for anybody to spend money on what he really likes. Spending money on what really satisfies you is never really a problem, and very few individuals regret it. If you really like music, if you do consider yourself to be a big music fan, then you will go out and buy a CD. You might have to miss a movie at the cinema, but it's a sacrifice you volontarily and consciously made- people do it every day all over the globe. Sacrifice is made at one end to make something at the other work out. People who like the music and respect the artists will buy the albums. I'm not saying that if you like music you have to necessarily go out and purchase 3000 CDs during a ten year time span, but when a release truly interests you, the cinema, the new clothes, the beer busts at your local bar will all take a seat and wait their turn. Or they won't?

 

The piracy issue, in my humble opinion, is ruining the music industry in general not because of the sake of people just "stealing" anything they can, but because the industry itself is having a wrong approach. The entire global musical scene revolves around mass production, there are labels and artists literary popping out of every crack in the wall. The listeners are bombed from all four corners of the globe with enough music that if they could have it all for free they'd never be able to finish listening to it all. So downloading is hard to resist. You wanna chip in, and hear as many albums as you can. Buying them all is out of the question, because for 95% of the population, spending so much money on round, shiny pieces of plastic is insane. The average listener today does not even know where to begin. He can hardly pick out what really interests him, let alone knowing what to buy. Some people just download so much, that with all the confusion created in their heads, they cannot even remember how well do certain releases fare in their heads... "Did I like this album?", "Who is this artist?", "Do I wanna buy this one?", "Oh wait! When did I get this?", "Hey, I didn't even know I had this guy's album on my HD!!!"...

[phobium]

I doubt ANY artist will actually (except colin or jikkenteki) will ever tell the TRUTH about sales and how much they ACTUALLY make...

I did earlier in this thread.

[Darkarbiter]

1. Do you download music from the web? Any kind of music. How much? How often?

Plenty... usually at least 2 gigs or so a month... +a lot of sets from forums

2. Do you download specifically Psytrance releases?

Yes, if at all possible I like to try before I buy (192kbps isn't the whole thing!)

3. Do you think that downloading (and any other forms of piracy) really hurt the music industry?

Yes it hurts the music industry a lot. The pop music industry... thats why the POP moguls try to shut it down so much. People are hearing other... (better) genres and thats bad for business.

4. Do you think that downloading (and any other forms of piracy) really hurt the Psytrance industry?

Yes, however indirectly. Remember people downloading doesn't hurt anyone... its NOT BUYING. I myself and a lot of other people will allways like to have the cd however. I think it'd be great if a lot of the rarer stuff was avaliable in wav download... collecters will still collect... however more people get to hear. There are some idiots who are like 128kbps or wav... I can't tell the difference and they never buy cds. They probably will eventually though.

5. Would you like a world that every new album/comp would be released only in the web?

No, see above... some people like cds

 

I got into psy from torrenting IM stuff(and then psytrance comps and eventually goa trance comps)... suffice as to say

[NEMO.BOFH]

Before the misunderstanding actually gets any more than it is, I was talking about OOOD's Baleswar EP not the CD album (Sorry for the confusion there). The CD sale I dont have a single frikken clue about, since that was not Distributed via Koyote afaik. Here the release im talking about http://www.discogs.com/release/147473

 

I only remember this release and the conversation I had with Dara Lee at the time, about this specific release.

[Anoebis]

well... Downloading is not bad as long people buy what they really like...

 

But the main problem with cds is that, for a long time, cds were too expensive... When prices drop alot, sales go up alot! (I'm with Mars here)

 

And well, the way of selling cds could be different as well... The best way of selling cds is simply ON psy trance parties (in countries where there is a scene)

Now, there are only 2 sources of buying cds: Psyshop and Saikosounds, and if you want to spent alot, discogs. that's IT! how many psy trance shops are left? Virtually none! So all has to be online... That has following consequences:

 

- young people without credit card/paypal won't buy

- people that don't trust buying via the internet won't buy (= alot of the 30+ generation)

- people that can't work properly with a pc (that don't download music) don't even try

 

I'm sure (specially young) people would buy more when these cds would be available at a shop for 12€...

 

Then, concerning the cd-sales ON parties... There is a Belgian guy with a shop going from party to party (mostly dark and old school) and he sais he sells unbelievably much there, sometimes the same as he sells in a WHOLE week in his shop...

 

When we sell our Suntrip cds at the entrance of an old school party, we sell sometimes 30 cds in one night! At cheap prices... If you can do this 10 times a year your total sales get an extra boost for sure!

 

So the main point now is searching for alternative forms of distribution.

 

About cds that will die? I don't think that will happen soon... A friend of me works in a factory where they print cds, and never before there was so much printed on CD media before. Not only music, true, but it is incredibly popular...

[Goa Bill]

HD DVD has lost against Blu Ray. Anybody who's into industry knows it.

But Blu Ray is not the winner cause 3 years from now people will be downloading HD content rather than buying.

Physical media is a thing of a past. Stop being sentimental towards a piece of plastic, it's hurting the planet in the long run.

God damn hippies.

[Ormion]

HD DVD has lost against Blu Ray. Anybody who's into industry knows it.

But Blu Ray is not the winner cause 3 years from now people will be downloading HD content rather than buying.

Physical media is a thing of a past. Stop being sentimental towards a piece of plastic, it's hurting the planet in the long run.

God damn hippies.

A painting is also just a piece of canvas with paint on it, but it will always be better than a digital image created in Photoshop.

[Daniël]

Physical media is a thing of a past. Stop being sentimental towards a piece of plastic, it's hurting the planet in the long run.

Computers generate alot more heat than CD players.

 

next on psynews:

How piracy is responsible for global warming...

send in your opinions.

[Goa Bill]

A painting is also just a piece of canvas with paint on it, but it will always be better than a digital image created in Photoshop.

 

I can't see the point here. How many paints do you have at home? How many average person here has? An original one, not reproduction, poster or a such. I got none.

 

Computers generate alot more heat than CD players.

 

next on psynews:

How piracy is responsible for global warming...

send in your opinions.

It's not about heat emissions. It's about manufacturing a piece of ecological disaster in billions when you have alternatives. This isn't about CD Players.

[NEMO.BOFH]

A painting is also just a piece of canvas with paint on it, but it will always be better than a digital image created in Photoshop.

 

I can't see the point here. How many paints do you have at home? How many average person here has? An original one, not reproduction, poster or a such. I got none.

 

 

It's not about heat emissions. It's about manufacturing a piece of ecological disaster in billions when you have alternatives. This isn't about CD Players.

And imagine the heat the pc generates when that piece of shit plastic is actually put in there and played

[Daniël]

I can't see the point here. How many paints do you have at home? How many average person here has? An original one, not reproduction, poster or a such. I got none.

 

Exactly 113, variable from 2m*2m till 8m*6m

 

ok, now i'm jsut trying to be a hardhead.