Guest .:::EP Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Well slidingtrancer you can only speak for yourself.... The fact is that I daily get quite a lot off E-mails from people all over the world loving my music and my new CD..... Just weird that the same people don't but the music !!! Of course they would never admit that they downloaded the music ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iconoclast Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 well,i'm probably older than most of you guys[40] and went through the 80's and early 90's seeing bands and going to more gigs than i can remember.these bands[eg.ozric tentacles,eat static ,and many more you probably will not have heard of] used to play free parties,festivals,gigs ,whatever,whenever,and they didn't moan about how many 'units' they were shifting in the shops or how people were recording their sets at gigs,and they would even give away home recorded tapes etc. to people who got to know them.years went by before they got any records released commercially but now they have sold truckloads of music on a small independent level. i think what i'm trying to say is that if you produce music for the right reasons and with the right intentions [this scene is meant to be about opening minds up,turning folks on,for psychedelic ideas to take fruit,isn't it?],then eventually you reap the respect and rewards you deserve,hopefully not measured by the size of your bank account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .:::EP Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 I partly agree with you iconoclast (I am 36) but you also got to realize that the world is very different from those days !!!!... No one could download big amounts of music from their living rooms in the 80's and early 90's. And why not make money from something you like to do and burn for? Is it so wrong? By the way I have played at many many free parties. I have made many many free parties..Just ask about the Acha free parties in London in 1996-1997 and I have also given music away for free and played at many benefit parties and donated record sales to example a foundation that helped kids in the conflict in Bosnia / Herzegovina. But I also have to eat and if I can't even get enough money to survive from my music then I have to stop making music or at least do something else that I can life off...meaning that I wont be able to do what i want to do ,thanx to a lot of people that don't give a shit about how hard I have worked on my music.... So face it. The world has changed and the morality of people went "fucked up" as the digital revolution evolved !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .:::EP Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 But of course mp3's are not only the problem.... Badly runned labels and poor distribution networks also have a lot of the blame !!! I myself have seen so many label people rather travel to India or ASIA and other exotic places many times a year rather than to actually work to push a release so it sell better. They also do not know teh first thing about promotion and we all know that they do not have any money to give the CD's the attention they deserve... They also fail to make deals with properly distribution networdk and end up doing business with small "scam" networks that rarely pay back the money they owe to the labels.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C.F Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Whaooo, you are so impassioned Elysium! iIt's a pleasure to see that you don't keep your tongue in your pockets, and that you claim loud what you are thinking. Even if it's a bit excessive by moments, RESPECT. FULL RESPECT. Even if I think you shout in the desert, unfortunatly. As you, me and my band are known by the whole psyscene. Nevertheless, I lost more than I won since I began music, economicaly speaking. Of course, reviews and friendly enlightened messages or feedbacks give us the strengh to resist a little bit more, but if the same who say that what we are doing is great would buy the cd, we were rich right now. I think everybody here is right, and at the same time is wrong. The thruth is a mix of all you said, cause MP3 contains in itself a paradox. But it's sure that one of the reasons are contain in the whole spirit of the Psyscene, who prides herself to be openminded, and IS NOT. Definitly not. If you want to be part of it, you have to be underground. Undergound mean unsealable elsewhere than in the Psyworld. So you have to make music for someone who don't buy your music, but who love it, and when you want to do something more listenable for a larger public, you are a traitor, whereas you want to democratize the music you are living for and, by the mean, refuse the dead end in fact. THIS IS THE THRUTH OPENMINDNESS: share music with the most possible people, make accessible what wasn't before. Consequently, you to pay tribute to music and make it discover by those whodidn't know nothing about it. Here, mp3 sharing is good. But sharing doesn't mean plundering. And here is the border between what is ethically acceptable, and what's not. By all means, I think it's a neverending topic, but that's not a reason to shut ut. So, again, thanks EP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yoama Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 i hope u all be VERY RICH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Ever thinking about if the artist sell less records.. Maybe the artist produce som shit... Take Haldolium for ex.. The new album sucks big time, but the 2 before is some killerstuff.. Maybe its not the MP3s fault, the artist producing some shit is also responsible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acidophilus Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 A very interesting thread to read. Respect to EP for his inlightning comments! I think 1 aspect has not been acounted for yet in this discussion. We are in the middle of a digital revoultion. Music is getting easier and cheaper to do every day. There has been a revolution in software synthesisers the last year and with todays processors running in many gigahertz, you can with only a powerful computer and a MIDI keyboard produce music that you needed a whole studio for 5 years ago. I know atleast 2 Swedish and 1 Dutch Psy-Trance producers that make all their music with software, and no hardware. Technology are getting more and more powerful and cheaper all the time. At the same time, prices of music is increasing... any one see the dilemma? In my opinion, that is why CD's are selling less and less. When you can produce Psy-Trance for cheap money, shouldn't the music be cheaper also? The only solution to the discussed problem is to lower prices on music. If prices for downloading an mp3 album would be lower, everybody would win on it. The consumer, the artist, everyone except the record labels and distributors, but as I see it, they role has been played out by technology change. If you do not adapt to the new settings the technology creates, you will die off and dissapear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .:::EP Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Has anyone at all though about the sound quality in this discussion????? I as an artist do not want my hard work listened to on a stereo or computer in a less quality than intended !!!!! That's also part of why i do not like mp3's as a final product.....the quality suck big time and my work and any other artists work do not deserve to be played at such low quality...... Would a painter like his paintings to be reduced to a picture in a magazine as the only way to showcase the paintings? NO WAY !!!! The sound quality is a major issue and as long as the technology still do not come up with a much better format similar to CD qualiity and in a much smaller download size then I will protest LOUD AND CLEAR against downloading music from the internet as a final product!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spacemonkey Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 completly agree with EP and the likes. a minor detail that hasn't been mentioned i think is the fact that many people are influenced by the idea that people making music are rich. They see popstars on TV and they think making music is big $$$$$. before i heared the accounts of some artitst on this forum some time ago, i too thought that eventhough psytrance wou;dn't make them rich it would suplly enough money for the artist to make a decent living possible. (it didn't stop me from buying though, because of the quality and a bit of respect). i think that for many people it's completly unclear that artists in a underground scene have to struggle so hard to earn a living, and therefore DL easier because they are not aware of the damage they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BLT Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 There is no doubt that the mp3 ripping is killing the artists and basically killing all the creation slowly but surely. On the other hand to fight this plague is like fighting wind mills - it is useless cuz it is a battle lost from the start. The only thing that might save us is that really most of artists will go down and then the ppl realise that they have nothing to download... But I guess it is too pricey and I don't understand why we have to pay this price.. After all we work hard and put our soul in the music and making some ppl enjoy it Now, EP, I might have found a solution.. To write and keep for myself.. That ofcourse makes u responsible for some live action to still bring it to ppl.. But while it is in your case / laptop, it is yours and yours only, and then u can present your creation to those that want to hear.. Maybe this will work, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BLT Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 There is no doubt that the mp3 ripping is killing the artists and basically killing all the creation slowly but surely. On the other hand to fight this plague is like fighting wind mills - it is useless cuz it is a battle lost from the start. The only thing that might save us is that really most of artists will go down and then the ppl realise that they have nothing to download... But I guess it is too pricey and I don't understand why we have to pay this price.. After all we work hard and put our soul in the music and making some ppl enjoy it Now, EP, I might have found a solution.. To write and keep for myself.. That ofcourse makes u responsible for some live action to still bring it to ppl.. But while it is in your case / laptop, it is yours and yours only, and then u can present your creation to those that want to hear.. Maybe this will work, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BLT Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 There is no doubt that the mp3 ripping is killing the artists and basically killing all the creation slowly but surely. On the other hand to fight this plague is like fighting wind mills - it is useless cuz it is a battle lost from the start. The only thing that might save us is that really most of artists will go down and then the ppl realise that they have nothing to download... But I guess it is too pricey and I don't understand why we have to pay this price.. After all we work hard and put our soul in the music and making some ppl enjoy it Now, EP, I might have found a solution.. To write and keep for myself.. That ofcourse makes u responsible for some live action to still bring it to ppl.. But while it is in your case / laptop, it is yours and yours only, and then u can present your creation to those that want to hear.. Maybe this will work, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .:::EP Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 That's cool BLT but you also know that the only ones that can make a living out off live today gigs are the ones that make full one "factory" music!!! I make downbeat / ethnic morning music and I am not about to change my style into full on and make music I don't like to create just so I can get a live gig. So what do I do then? Well there's a few directions I can take: 1. I stop making music. 2. I make music for a broader market 3. I keep trying to convince people that they are wrong (yeah sure !) So what should I do? You tell me !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alien Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 FCUK!! The recording history has only been around for a 100 or odd years and has produced millionaire musicians purly because the have been truly tallented and marketed well. Trance acts are able to produce CD's without any real recording studios and sit back and reap back rewards on their release. Have we all gone mad. A musician is an artist who should be able gain respectfrom the music he plays LIVE. There are thousands of jazz musicians that have hardly released any CD's but are doing quite well, why? because they are true to their art form. They are only happy when someone is listening and not buying. If you want to make a living in music play a proper instument and go and get some education. Twiddling on a P will never get the respect for still a long time yet. sorry dudes PLUR the alien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alien Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 FCUK!! The recording history has only been around for a 100 or odd years and has produced millionaire musicians purly because the have been truly tallented and marketed well. Trance acts are able to produce CD's without any real recording studios and sit back and reap back rewards on their release. Have we all gone mad. A musician is an artist who should be able gain respectfrom the music he plays LIVE. There are thousands of jazz musicians that have hardly released any CD's but are doing quite well, why? because they are true to their art form. They are only happy when someone is listening and not buying. If you want to make a living in music play a proper instument and go and get some education. Twiddling on a P will never get the respect for still a long time yet. sorry dudes PLUR the alien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest onyxura Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 aaah... Finally a topic I haven't seen around here before ;?) -T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest onyxura Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 aaah... Finally a topic I haven't seen around here before ;?) -T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .:::EP Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Alien to your information I do have a proper education from The Danish Royal Conservatory majoring in classic Piano.... and so what? It's absolutely bullshit to say that just because a artist dont have an eductaion in music he's not a propper artist ! And why is it such a "tabu" that a psy/goa/ambient artist want to make money out of his/her music? It's such a old worn-out cliche that I am dead tired of listening to..... I dont care how many so-called "hippies" tell me that i am not true to the Goa movement and that I am selling out ect. ect..... I like to make music...it's my life and passion and I think I deserve to make a living out of what I do best !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WSTE_M Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I dont know about you, but id like to hear the music before i buy it. so I download a few tracks, if I like it, I buy the CD, if I dont, then its the Trash (or recycling bin in windows) There are few Goa shops (or shops in general) where you can listen to the music before you buy it, and you cant really stand around for an hour and a half listening to the CD you might just buy. Some shops on the internet offer a preview of the CDs (like psyshop.com) which is great, but it is only 30-45 seconds, you cant really jusdge whats on a CD by that. (IMHO) Without mp3 i wouldent buy as many CDs as I do today, cuz I wouldent know what is good, and what is bad. And I hate wasting money. Also why has noone commented on the low quality of mp3s ? have you ever tried to listen to a mp3 and a AIFF (store bought cd) right after another ? Instead of banning mp3, it should be made legal: hear it once: free download low Q: (really) small fee download high Q: small fee download AIFF: larger fee thas just my 2c. W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WSTE_M Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Also FUCK THE RIAA!! bastards killing of fair use. W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .:::EP Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 WSTE M you know as well as I that you live in Denmark and properly next to a big city like Copenhagen , Aarhus or Aalborg and there you can actually go and buy your CD's and listen to them in the shop before you buy!!!! These cities have shop with a big variety of psy/goa...Just take "Loud" in Copenhagen as an example !!! But back to the issue :-) Even if people could buy mp3's or aiff (wow you need a VERY fast connection for this) or whatever on the internet they would not stop burning copies and download the music for free...you know that!! Everything that's easy to acess and free will be viewed at as more attractive than to buy it !!! sad but the truth !!! So your solution still would not change anything. It's an attitude change we need....But I am afraid that it wont happen soon if ever !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WSTE_M Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I know about Loud. I buy my CDs there I mentioned that there are shops where you can listen to CDs Maybe you are right, but what I though about was that you log on to a page, and you start downloading. No hassle with downloading aplications that install spyware onto our computer, you dont have to spend hours searching for something only to find out it doesent exist. I for ony would pay, not as mush cuz its legal, but I wont have to search to no end. Also one thing about the AIFF, is that is cancels ALL distribution, storeage, printing of CDs etc. Think of this, a CD had been made in say 1000copies, after they are sold, no more will be printed. Maybe the band broke up, the label went bancrupt, they dident sell well, whatever. But I still want the CD, so what do I do ? nothing. Had the group / label set up a internet site where people, could download, then I could get it, nomater how many times it had been downloaded ! This is the future. But beeing more of a realist them me, you are right, its the additude. W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AMP Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 The soft synth production is not quite as easy as people are spreading there.....just think one thing...I know most get their programs for free, but if you do actually buy any of the softs, there goes your budget....have you seen how much Loguc costs, or Reaktor, or any other Native stuff? You cant get your hands in any decente software legally for less than 300 euros. I do think psytrance artists are not that well paid (you cant consider a few of the dozens as the rule).....yeah its great to produce music for the fun of it, for the love of it, and I think anyone producing psytrance does it for the love of it, but EVERYONE must eat......so if you spend your whole day trying to get a proper bassline and kick to work for the tune, and after a year of doing stuff like this all day everyday, you will certainly enjoy to get some living money from it, wouldnt you? Besides all the investment needed to make a good sound comes to a hig price. You will need at least like 1500 euros just to get a decent computer and a proper soundcard for music......this is not counting with the 1000 euros you should have to pay ton get some soft, and maybe you want a real synth? Well there goes another 1000 euros at least.....so you should be around 3500 euros now, and you still dont have an overwhelming studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AMP Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 The soft synth production is not quite as easy as people are spreading there.....just think one thing...I know most get their programs for free, but if you do actually buy any of the softs, there goes your budget....have you seen how much Loguc costs, or Reaktor, or any other Native stuff? You cant get your hands in any decente software legally for less than 300 euros. I do think psytrance artists are not that well paid (you cant consider a few of the dozens as the rule).....yeah its great to produce music for the fun of it, for the love of it, and I think anyone producing psytrance does it for the love of it, but EVERYONE must eat......so if you spend your whole day trying to get a proper bassline and kick to work for the tune, and after a year of doing stuff like this all day everyday, you will certainly enjoy to get some living money from it, wouldnt you? Besides all the investment needed to make a good sound comes to a hig price. You will need at least like 1500 euros just to get a decent computer and a proper soundcard for music......this is not counting with the 1000 euros you should have to pay ton get some soft, and maybe you want a real synth? Well there goes another 1000 euros at least.....so you should be around 3500 euros now, and you still dont have an overwhelming studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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