Setup Help....

[oldgeezers940]

Hey,

 

So I'm looking to add something to my setup so i can start recording some Infected Mushroom, Astral Prjection, Phoenix, and really any Goa/ Psytrance stuff.

 

currently I have a korg TR and Logic express on my mac... Nothing too exciting. =/

 

I was thinking a few things,

 

I could upgrade to Logic Pro

 

I could buy a Korg Electribe EMX

 

I could buy a Korg Kaoss Pad 3

 

 

Maybe theres something that would be better for me to buy, but given my current setup and what I want to record does any one have any suggestions??

 

 

thankss

[devious]

Hey,

 

So I'm looking to add something to my setup so i can start recording some Infected Mushroom, Astral Prjection, Phoenix, and really any Goa/ Psytrance stuff.

 

currently I have a korg TR and Logic express on my mac... Nothing too exciting. =/

 

I was thinking a few things,

 

I could upgrade to Logic Pro

 

I could buy a Korg Electribe EMX

 

I could buy a Korg Kaoss Pad 3

 

 

Maybe theres something that would be better for me to buy, but given my current setup and what I want to record does any one have any suggestions??

 

 

thankss

If you want to sound like Astral Projection, they used an Emax sampler and lots of Roland analogue gear as well as access viruses and nord leads.

 

If you want to sound like Infected Mushroom, simply pick up a Solton MS50

 

Korg Electribe EMXs are great. I've heard many tracks Goa related created on them. Of course not as the only instrument, but they do VERY well at it.

 

If you want something with a built in sequencer, like the EMX, possibly give a Future Retro - Revolution a try. They're awesome, monophonic, synths. You really need to determine what you want to do, how you get your inspiration and if ITB [in the box] or OTB [Out of the box] is more your method.

 

I personally have grown using an OTB setup. When I played with Reason and an ITB setup, there were some things that were interesting, but now I feel more musically endowed [bwaha] and it's a matter of preference and taste as you will quickly find out by frequenting here, gearslutz, or anywhere else.

 

Honestly, if you wanted to buy a Korg EMX, I would seriously consider using that money for Nord Modular, no doubt, and trying out Renoise! Those two in combination could possibly be one of the most winning ITB combinations, evargh combined with some good monitors in which any case, to plug them, I would recommend Focal Solo6, but they're at a cost of ~2000 plus USD

 

If you state a plan, what gets you more productive, what you have done, etcetera, it may be a lot easier to guide. And welcome to psynews.org, enjoy your stay!

 

-d

[oldgeezers940]

My plan is to add something to my setup that will make the recording process less awkward and the product less cheesy.

 

With my TR and Logic I can get a good idea out but It becomes very repetitive very fast. I was thinking a device like the EMX would help me to be able to move more gracefully through the song. However, I'm not sure if the EMX will completely take the place of logic as a sequencer. Would I still be able to use logic to fine tune my finished project If I used both a EMX and a Korg TR?

 

If I made the EMX, TR, and Logic work together which devices would one set to be slaves and which one masters? Would logic be the master of both the TR and EMX or does the EMX always have to be master?

 

I hope that all made sense... If not thanks in advanced for clearing things up.

 

If you want to sound like Astral Projection, they used an Emax sampler and lots of Roland analogue gear as well as access viruses and nord leads.

 

If you want to sound like Infected Mushroom, simply pick up a Solton MS50

 

Korg Electribe EMXs are great. I've heard many tracks Goa related created on them. Of course not as the only instrument, but they do VERY well at it.

 

If you want something with a built in sequencer, like the EMX, possibly give a Future Retro - Revolution a try. They're awesome, monophonic, synths. You really need to determine what you want to do, how you get your inspiration and if ITB [in the box] or OTB [Out of the box] is more your method.

 

I personally have grown using an OTB setup. When I played with Reason and an ITB setup, there were some things that were interesting, but now I feel more musically endowed [bwaha] and it's a matter of preference and taste as you will quickly find out by frequenting here, gearslutz, or anywhere else.

 

Honestly, if you wanted to buy a Korg EMX, I would seriously consider using that money for Nord Modular, no doubt, and trying out Renoise! Those two in combination could possibly be one of the most winning ITB combinations, evargh combined with some good monitors in which any case, to plug them, I would recommend Focal Solo6, but they're at a cost of ~2000 plus USD

 

If you state a plan, what gets you more productive, what you have done, etcetera, it may be a lot easier to guide. And welcome to psynews.org, enjoy your stay!

 

-d

[Mike A]

Ever tried using VST instruments?

[oldgeezers940]

Ever tried using VST instruments?

Not yet, I'll give it a try today though. Is there any sequencer you'd suggest to use with them or would Logic be fine?

 

I'm still not sure if an EMX would be more productive in creating complex beats. I like the idea of being able to shape your music with the touch of a button instead of copying and pasting. It just seems like it would be alot faster and open up alot of possibilities.

 

But i could use the EMX to control VST instruments right??

[devious]

Not yet, I'll give it a try today though. Is there any sequencer you'd suggest to use with them or would Logic be fine?

 

I'm still not sure if an EMX would be more productive in creating complex beats. I like the idea of being able to shape your music with the touch of a button instead of copying and pasting. It just seems like it would be alot faster and open up alot of possibilities.

 

But i could use the EMX to control VST instruments right??

Hey,

 

You should check out youtube for some EMX demos. I don't know personally how grooveboxes interface within the MIDI realm on computers, but I am sure it would to a certain extent. In a perfect world, you would have a pretty knob laden and/or fader laden midi controller to do all the VST's work and have the EMX on the side. You seem like you really want an EMX. If you buy one used, you can resell it for the same price if you take good care of it, heehee. The great thing about the synth/pro-audio market.

 

And yes, you can continue to use logic so long as you deem it worthy of your use. :-P

 

-d

[oldgeezers940]

Hey,

 

You should check out youtube for some EMX demos. I don't know personally how grooveboxes interface within the MIDI realm on computers, but I am sure it would to a certain extent. In a perfect world, you would have a pretty knob laden and/or fader laden midi controller to do all the VST's work and have the EMX on the side. You seem like you really want an EMX. If you buy one used, you can resell it for the same price if you take good care of it, heehee. The great thing about the synth/pro-audio market.

 

And yes, you can continue to use logic so long as you deem it worthy of your use. :-P

 

-d

 

I was thinking I could use my Korg TR as the "pretty knob Laden/ fader laden midi controller".

 

my fear is that I wont be able to get the EMX synced with Logic or my TR.

 

And since I'd have two audio sources I'd need to get a mixer... =/ but i guess that was inevitable anyway.

 

 

 

but yea, I watched the demos on youtube and loved what I heard. But i'm still concerned that I might have the wrong impression of what the EMX is actually designed to do.

[oldgeezers940]

Maybe the Korg ER1MKII is more what I'm looking for??

 

have they been discountinued?

 

Or maybe one of the Roland grooveboxes??

 

 

ahh dear... so many choices!!!

[devious]

Maybe the Korg ER1MKII is more what I'm looking for??

 

have they been discountinued?

 

Or maybe one of the Roland grooveboxes??

 

 

ahh dear... so many choices!!!

You need to decide really. You should have hands on experience playing with the choices you have and then decide what works best for you. But as a personal recommendation, absolutely positively stay away from Roland groove boxes, definitely. In fact, stay away from Roland gear post 1998 but that's just my opinion...

 

-d

[oldgeezers940]

You need to decide really.

yea i agree, I'm just trying to figure out if what I'm looking at is the best choice for what I'm trying to accomplish

[Veracohr]

My plan is to add something to my setup that will make the recording process less awkward and the product less cheesy.

What is it about your current process that you find awkward and cheesy? Can you post some samples?

 

I'm not familiar with either the Korg TR or Logic's synths. Lots of people use Logic for sequencing, so you should probably be good there unless you don't like it for some reason (I didn't). Really, practice will have the biggest effect on your music. How good are you with synth programming? That can have a big effect on your sound--tailoring your own sounds rather than using presets or modified presets. I took a brief glance at the specs for the Korg TR, and as far as I can tell it looks like a typical ROMpler. Right? I suggest searching for some free softsynths, finding some simple subractive syths, and fuck around with them until you know what's going on with them. Then try out some more complicated synths with more capabilities. You can get a wide range of sounds out of, for example, a simple 2-oscillator subtractive synth with FM and an LFO.

 

My advice is to not spend the money for a hardware synth (or an expensive software one) until you know synthesis pretty well, know what kind of sounds you want to create and how to create them. Then you will know what to buy, and won't waste money on something that doesn't allow you to accomplish what you want.

[oldgeezers940]

What is it about your current process that you find awkward and cheesy? Can you post some samples?

The thing about using Logic to sequence the rythm part of the song is that I end up building a nice bass and drum line but it gets VERY repetetive. No fills, no breakdowns, no changes really. I get a drum beat and bass line then add a synth lead.

 

I'll post something when I get to my computer.

 

With logic I have transitional issues. It seems that the EMX would be beneficial in producing a flowing song that changes things up and doesn't just have one beat straight through.

 

 

and yes, the TR is just a ROMpler. Nothing exciting. It does sound good though so it works for me for now.

[oldgeezers940]

http://media.putfile.com/The-Intro-37

 

 

http://media.putfile.com/The-Intro-37

 

=/

 

These are the only ones i have access to from here.

 

there both old and made just using garageband but you can hear how its just the same thing over and over and over and over....

 

I have better sounds with the TR now but I still have the same issues of getting stuck in a a repetetive pattern that never endsss... eveerrrr

 

they aren't anywhere near the style I'm aiming for but I'm away from my computer for awhile and these were the only things I could get from online.

[Otto Matta]

You have to create your changes. That's just part of the creative process. Begging your pardon, you sound like you expect your software to do the creating for you. The best it can do is inspire you, allow your thoughts to flow freely, and help organize things for you. But it won't do your creating for you. Music is fundamentally a problem solving process, and if monotony is a problem, it's up to you to figure out a creative solution, which usually involves a lot of play and/or a lot of work. The way you solve your musical problems ends up being what YOU sound like. What Veracohr says is true: Learn your synthesis, and during that process seek out the platform that helps you get your ideas across, helps you solve the enormous complexities involved with making music, and simply helps you be creative. I've heard a lot of good things about Logic.

[oldgeezers940]

You have to create your changes. That's just part of the creative process. Begging your pardon, you sound like you expect your software to do the creating for you.

 

I've heard a lot of good things about Logic.

To an extent that might be right, but not entirely.

 

I just don't want to keep making my bass and drum patterns using the matrix input of logic. I'm sure alot of people do it that way but I haven't found that way very productive. So i was hoping to find I more intuitive way of creating patterns.

 

its like someone who does something impressive in photoshop, Its not any less creative because they used the program to alter the picture instead of manually doing it pixel by pixel. The way I see it, the Matrix input process is like editing a picture pixel by pixel.

 

And Logic is great, except I have Logic express... Logic express is pretty much just a sequencer, it has a nice score editor and it has i think three synths. No drum machine in my version of logic that I could find. But it is pretty nice. It does what its meant to do

[Otto Matta]

I see. How about giving Cycling '74's Max/MSP a spin?

[acidkills]

Whats wrong with logic? I didnt like the look of it in previous versions but new ones are great..

[oldgeezers940]

Whats wrong with logic? I didnt like the look of it in previous versions but new ones are great..

 

I have Logic express 7.

 

Theres nothing particularly wrong with it, it just doesn't have everything that Logic Pro 8 has.

[oldgeezers940]

I see. How about giving Cycling '74's Max/MSP a spin?

yea I'll give it a try, I found a 30 day trial so I'll be checking that out tonight.

[Veracohr]

I just don't want to keep making my bass and drum patterns using the matrix input of logic. I'm sure alot of people do it that way but I haven't found that way very productive. So i was hoping to find I more intuitive way of creating patterns.

The Electribe may be useful for you, I really don't know, having never used one. But if you find entering drum notes via mouse tedious and unproductive, by all means find another way. Have you looked into a controller with drum trigger pads? Then you could tap out your patterns. I personally plunk them out on my keyboard the best I can, and use the mouse the rest of the way, then select a one- or two-measure pattern and repeat. But then again, I suck at drum beats.

 

Like Otto said, you have to create the changes. You have to invent the changes. If you create something that's repetitive, you can't blame it on your production process. Remember, change is what makes music interesting - change in the notes, the patterns, the sounds, all of it. Even in an inherently repetitive genre like trance. Listen to your favorite songs and listen for the little changes that keep a repetitive pattern from getting boring. There's always little changes in drums, random little asynchronus sounds, filter sweeps, etc.

[Otto Matta]

I record my rhythms on the keys as well. I like "jamming" until I find something that seems to work, and then build on that. Occasionally a rhythm is created from a melody that didn't work. I also find it very beneficial (if it's not obvious) to separate all your rhythm instruments into individual tracks. So, for instance, if you've recorded a kick & snare thing on the keys, separate out the snare onto its own track.

 

It's going to be hard to avoid the grids of traditional sequencers and still have simplicity. Trance is a very linear genre of music, as is most stuff with a beat. I'd also look into NI's Reaktor if you're looking for something a bit more unusual. And if you come across anything really interesting that's non-linear, let us know!

[oldgeezers940]

The Electribe may be useful for you, I really don't know, having never used one. But if you find entering drum notes via mouse tedious and unproductive, by all means find another way. Have you looked into a controller with drum trigger pads? Then you could tap out your patterns. I personally plunk them out on my keyboard the best I can, and use the mouse the rest of the way, then select a one- or two-measure pattern and repeat. But then again, I suck at drum beats.

 

Like Otto said, you have to create the changes. You have to invent the changes. If you create something that's repetitive, you can't blame it on your production process. Remember, change is what makes music interesting - change in the notes, the patterns, the sounds, all of it. Even in an inherently repetitive genre like trance. Listen to your favorite songs and listen for the little changes that keep a repetitive pattern from getting boring. There's always little changes in drums, random little asynchronus sounds, filter sweeps, etc.

 

Yea, I'm completely aware that its mostly issues with me rather than the production process. In music theory I do fine with everything except rhythm. its quite frustrating but I've been working on it alot. I'll look into the midi controller with drum trigger pads. that sounds like it could be something worth checking out.

 

And i try to make little sublte changes in the rhythm to switch things up but I guess i just need more practice with that.

[oldgeezers940]

I think after doing alot of research around and reading the manuals and reviews of various devices and software I think I'm going to go with getting the Korg Electribe emx.

 

I still occasionally wish I had an actuall VA synth instead of my ROMpler Korg TR but it does have pretty nice sounds that can be altered quite a bit. So I think it is deffinately still a good machine. Especially since I do alot of playing at places where i uses a basic piano sound.

 

I appreciate all the feedback you guys have given and I'm deff going to look into checking out some free VSTs and the demos of the nonfree software you guys mentioned.

 

hopefully with alot more reading up and practicing on techniques you guys have posted around here I should be able to create something nice.

 

but thanks alot, i feel like I have alot more resources to work with now than I thought I did.