fosku Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I was talking with my friend, who's been listening to some of my psytrance & ambient stuff, about the length of the albums. I haven't really thought about it, but there really are no psytrance albums under 60 minutes. Is it because the genre has born in the cd era, so that artists have always had 80 minutes of space to fill? Or is it because the tracks are so long (to induce the "trance" the genre is all about) and it would look stupid to have only 5 tracks on an album? What if some artist would release an album under 60 minutes of length? People would bash them for sure, for ripping the listeners off, not giving them their money's worth. Isn't it wrong to have such restrictions for musicians, not giving them full artistic freedom? Isn't this supposed to be an open-minded scene? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melancholyman Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I was talking with my friend, who's been listening to some of my psytrance & ambient stuff, about the length of the albums. I haven't really thought about it, but there really are no psytrance albums under 60 minutes. Is it because the genre has born in the cd era, so that artists have always had 80 minutes of space to fill? Or is it because the tracks are so long (to induce the "trance" the genre is all about) and it would look stupid to have only 5 tracks on an album? What if some artist would release an album under 60 minutes of length? People would bash them for sure, for ripping the listeners off, not giving them their money's worth. Isn't it wrong to have such restrictions for musicians, not giving them full artistic freedom? Isn't this supposed to be an open-minded scene? It's a funny thing, there is an album i want to buy wich is really good, Objekt4 - Space Jungle Slums, but the total length is only 35min on 8 tracks, and I have strong second thoughts about buying it just of the short playtime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supergroover Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 yes its probably related to the length of the cd. Also the style of music fits to make it as long as possible. You cant go into trance in 15 minutes, peak for 10 minutes and have a 5 minute 'home coming'. It takes a while to trance Punk music fits short pieces because they are bursts of energy for 3 minutes than you need a break. Same goes for gabber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex530 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Celtic Cross - Hicksville is fairly short as far as I can remember (sure its only 50 odd minutes). Mainly though I think psy trance songs tend to be quite lengthy so its farily easy to fill a CD with only 7 or 8 songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Well, the average psytrance album's duration has shortened lately - nowadays most albums are around 65 minutes, when few years ago it was well above 70, with many albums hitting the physical limit, that is nearly 80 minutes (Cosmosis "Synergy", VA "Eclipse" to name just a few). Of course there are still exceptions, especially latest Voice of Cod album or Ultimae stuff, that make good use of CD space. But then it is not so important - just take a look at Psychopod's "Headlines EP" or Hallucinogen's "The Lone Deranger". They're 45 and 60 minutes respectively, yet they'll forever be regarded as the pinnacle of psychedelic music. Of course, the longer the better, but not at the expense of quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goa-Head Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Pigs in Space is 80 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosku Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 just take a look at Psychopod's "Headlines EP" Yeah that was the only short album I could think of. Great album. But what if an artist has composed 40 minutes of awesome music, stuff that will surely be considered as unforgettable classics. Then his inspiration stops. Should he fill the rest of the space with mediocre material? If you ask me, he shouldn't. He shouldn't feel that he has to make more stuff, just to get to the 70 minutes. 40 minutes of great stuff is better than 40 minutes of great stuff plus 40 minutes of fillers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goa-Head Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Yeah that was the only short album I could think of. Great album. 40 minutes of great stuff is better than 40 minutes of great stuff plus 40 minutes of fillers. It's an EP not an album - that's how it was released by TIP Records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 It's a funny thing, there is an album i want to buy wich is really good, Objekt4 - Space Jungle Slums, but the total length is only 35min on 8 tracks, and I have strong second thoughts about buying it just of the short playtime Haha I have been feeling the same way... But I just can't (at this point of life ) afford to pay that kind of price for that amount of music... But have got quite a few "short" downbeat album lately, such as Krill.minima - Nautica, Hol Baumann - Human & Ian Ion - Gringo Locomotion. But then it is not so important - just take a look at Psychopod's "Headlines EP" or Hallucinogen's "The Lone Deranger". They're 45 and 60 minutes respectively, yet they'll forever be regarded as the pinnacle of psychedelic music. As Goa-Head just said... that is probably why they chose to call it an EP. And actually just shows as a good example of psy/goa-trance albums are expected (demanded) to be long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 It's a funny thing, there is an album i want to buy wich is really good, Objekt4 - Space Jungle Slums, but the total length is only 35min on 8 tracks, and I have strong second thoughts about buying it just of the short playtime That's much to short & why I never bought it.It looked good but I'll wait until it is at least half price for this half album. But what if an artist has composed 40 minutes of awesome music, stuff that will surely be considered as unforgettable classics. Then his inspiration stops. Should he fill the rest of the space with mediocre material? If you ask me, he shouldn't. He shouldn't feel that he has to make more stuff, just to get to the 70 minutes. 40 minutes of great stuff is better than 40 minutes of great stuff plus 40 minutes of fillers. Then he should wait for inspiration to hit again. It should, the artist needs a bit of patience. If he has reached the end of his musical productivity then chances are what he made already isn't going to be anything outstanding IMO. At that point he should release the 40 minutes worth of tracks on a mini album (at half the price of a FULL album), an EP or separately on various compilations. Under no circumstances should he charge full price for half an album or release an album with half fillers (or all fillers like some artists IMO). This is of course all my opinion but it pisses me off when I pay full price for an album & it's over in about 30 minutes. Especially if the musics good as I am then desperate for more. Haha I have been feeling the same way... But I just can't (at this point of life ) afford to pay that kind of price for that amount of music... But have got quite a few "short" downbeat album lately, such as Krill.minima - Nautica, Hol Baumann - Human & Ian Ion - Gringo Locomotion. These are all around the hour mark which for me is not too bad. Of course I want that extra 20 minutes like there should be but an hour is just enough time to lose myself in the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 These are all around the hour mark which for me is not too bad. Of course I want that extra 20 minutes like there should be but an hour is just enough time to lose myself in the music. Yeah I guess its in the accepted time frame But below this its starts to get critical, especially when hitting the 50'min mark... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If there is concept, in the real sense of the word, I don't mind if the album is 30 minutes long, it is still an album, with thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosku Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 If there is concept, in the real sense of the word, I don't mind if the album is 30 minutes long, it is still an album, with thought.Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I'd rather listen to 15 minutes of pure art then 80 minutes of crap. If there's only 5 songs on the album, I'm fine with it, as long as it's something worth listening to, and that it gives the listener a sort of "the end" feeling to it. Not like a sudden cut and you're wondering where did the other ~30+- or so minutes gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I'd rather listen to 15 minutes of pure art then 80 minutes of crap. If there's only 5 songs on the album, I'm fine with it, as long as it's something worth listening to, and that it gives the listener a sort of "the end" feeling to it. Not like a sudden cut and you're wondering where did the other ~30+- or so minutes gone. I agree with you completely. I have to ask you one thing, why have you changed your signature ? You were so passionate about your forthcoming album and now it is delayed. What has happend ? Plus, the awakening of goa trance has already started, very slowly though, but it's happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I agree with you completely. I have to ask you one thing, why have you changed your signature ? You were so passionate about your forthcoming album and now it is delayed. What has happend ? Plus, the awakening of goa trance has already started, very slowly though, but it's happening. I'll reply to that in pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 I'd rather listen to 15 minutes of pure art then 80 minutes of crap. If there's only 5 songs on the album, I'm fine with it, as long as it's something worth listening to, and that it gives the listener a sort of "the end" feeling to it. Not like a sudden cut and you're wondering where did the other ~30+- or so minutes gone. But would you pay the price of a full album for those 15 minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosku Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 But would you pay the price of a full album for those 15 minutes?I would, at least if the alternative was that 15 minutes of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 I would, at least if the alternative was that 15 minutes of crap.But it's not! The alternative is a full length album of good tunes! If one artist has no patience or not enough inspiration, there are a lot of good artists out there who do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 But it's not! The alternative is a full length album of good tunes! If one artist has no patience or not enough inspiration, there are a lot of good artists out there who do Why it has to come down to that ? For me, the art form is an ART FORM, no matter the length of any art piece. I would happily pay for a 20 minutes long film, 20 minutes long show, or 20 minutes long concert if it has very conceptual quality. I need an IDEA, not the size of it. You buy ideas I guess, not their durations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Why it has to come down to that ? For me, the art form is an ART FORM, no matter the length of any art piece. I would happily pay for a 20 minutes long film, 20 minutes long show, or 20 minutes long concert if it has very conceptual quality. I need an IDEA, not the size of it. You buy ideas I guess, not their durations. ^ +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Why it has to come down to that ? For me, the art form is an ART FORM, no matter the length of any art piece. I would happily pay for a 20 minutes long film, 20 minutes long show, or 20 minutes long concert if it has very conceptual quality. I need an IDEA, not the size of it. You buy ideas I guess, not their durations. Sorry I have to disagree with that. If we are talking about music releases (thats what r right?), then if somebody sold me 20 min "worth" of music as an album I would get rather pissed! That's why we have EPs Mini albums etc. And yes a 40 min album would have to go on sale before I would buy it ED: so what I mean is... yes its an art form (obviously), but at the same time its a product... it's sold as an album, EP etc. so the format has to fit with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Sorry I have to disagree with that. If we are talking about music releases (thats what r right?), then if somebody sold me 20 min "worth" of music as an album I would get rather pissed! That's why we have EPs Mini albums etc. And yes a 40 min album would have to go on sale before I would buy it ED: so what I mean is... yes its an art form (obviously), but at the same time its a product... it's sold as an album, EP etc. so the format has to fit with that! Ok if we are talking about musical releases but I was thinking in general. What I value the most is THE IDEA. There were so many albums during 60's, 70's and 80's period made at approximate lengths between 20 and 40 minutes. Check any release from Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream or Dead Can Dance. They all had great concepts but were that short, and it made sense in those days cause formats were different. Just because our spoiled ears got used to longer formats doesn't mean the artists are scaming anyone if they have an idea presented in no matter what length. For the same reason I respect short films, good example is Bunuel's visual masterpiece Andalusian Dog, that lasts 16 minutes but fuck, was that the picture that broke the standards for the time when it was released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Ok if we are talking about musical releases but I was thinking in general. What I value the most is THE IDEA. There were so many albums during 60's, 70's and 80's period made at approximate lengths between 20 and 40 minutes. Check any release from Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream or Dead Can Dance. They all had great concepts but were that short, and it made sense in those days cause formats were different. Just because our spoiled ears got used to longer formats doesn't mean the artists are scaming anyone if they have an idea presented in no matter what length. For the same reason I respect short films, good example is Bunuel's visual masterpiece Andalusian Dog, that lasts 16 minutes but fuck, was that the picture that broke the standards for the time when it was released. Yes, I agree with u here I really like short films a lot, a good movie can be 30 sec long, I mean just look at some of Jan Svankmajer's stuff (the stop-motion-movie legend) I mean ideas are great But nowadays, yes we are spoiled , now albums are not the length of EPs like they were (almost time-wise) back in the days, and that was my only point. If its not the length of a normal album, sell it as another format that fits! I don't mind the fact that is short! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 You buy ideas I guess, not their durations. yes, that sums it up pretty well Better 30 minutes of good stuff than nothing. And if the artist "decides to wait", nothing is the alternative you get. Sometimes even forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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