Guest Novacula Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I used to believe that all these categories of could only break up the Psy Trance scene into smaller and smaller groups making for a more and more divided genre... Then I started mixing. Then I started REALLY listening to the music. Then I started going to outdoor parties. Then I started really dancing. Then I started Stomping. And I had seen the light... At Samothraki the first year it all started making sense - and by Samothraki last year I had worked out exactly what sort of music it was that I wanted to play/listen to/dance to. These may not be the same you realise??? I found that to really improve my knowledge I had to be able to categorise the music as there was just way too much to keep up with (or in my case catch up with). Once I could distinguish the different types I was able to work out exactly what styles I wanted to play/dance to. Verdict? Full on as fuck. Why? Progressive/Minimal - Sure this had its day and for a while I thought it was all good. But then I started to really dance. Once you learn to let yourself go on the dance floor progressive just doesn't cut it. For me the whole point in Psy Trance and Dance parties is well - at the sake of sounding obvious Dancing. You just cannot let your self go to music that is too slow/empty. aka progressive. For those of you that stomp - try stomping to progressive you will find you can do it for a little while but then you get dragged back down to a slow groove. Hmmm not good. If I am going to a dance party - I want to stomp my ass off. If you go to a progressive room/stage/party you will see all the people dancing the same - the music wont really allow them to let go. Fuck if I wanted to be the same as everyone else I would buy Pop and go to the pub. Tech Trance is pretty much the same deal. Just Prog/Min with more tech sounds. Probably quite influenced by the underground squat scene esp in London. Take Psy Trance and put in on a PA that is too small - in a room with a low ceiling, often set up in mono and drive that fucker to distortion. Play any sort of psy, progressive or fullon it doesnt matter a whole lot it still sounds like Tech Trance in an environment like that. Oh adding a whole lot of people and high humidity seems to help as well. Thats all very well - but once again the rigid repitiveness of techno influences seem to lock you down into dancing the same as everyone else again. Boring... Goa - old school. A bit harder to classify. To me it just sounds dated - cheesy even. Still nice to listen to esp at home but not for dancing to. Nothing gets old so fast as a new sound... So that brings me back to full on. I think this seems to be making a comeback and about fucking time. If you want to dance and get the complete Psy Trance experience then this is the business. I will try hard not to play anything less than 145 BPM. Why - because it is Chillout!! Who wants to chill out on the dance floor? Well obviously only people who can't/don't dance. People who groove... hmm I groove but in the chillout area... Motto - Never trust a DJ who can't dance.... After all how the fuck will they know what to play if NOTHING makes them want to get up and stomp... End the reign of screwdrivers stuck in the pitch control at -4.8 for fucks sake - lets get up and dance... Just my random thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeff Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I'm wondering if you ever let a chance to the music to grow in you. I mean a psy tune is not just your average Scooter track on which you freak out to the max and then forget it. It is as if you had ripped the psy sound off its specificity in saying that all you want is "to stomp your ass off". I like the psy parties precisely because they're more than that, otherwise I'd go to the nightclub next door... Footnote : I think there is a whole world of psy sounds between full-on and old school that you didn't mention in your glossary. But as always, problems of definition... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raider Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I partially agree with you... full-on is the best genre, and most friendly dance-able genre out there... but to dance isn't what makes the music good. I often find myself chilling out a home with some great fullon, without the urge to get up and start dancing... he he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Novacula Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I am sure I forgot to mention a few other styles. And sub styles as well. Here is one more Shaffel - This is a relatively new style (I think??) that is a darker and nastier version of progressive with a fair bit of Tech/industrial thrown in. Bascially most of the stuff on Skazi's label Shaffel, also the old MDMA etc... I must admit that I quite like this sound. I had never even really clicked to it until I saw Dual Head play in london. Shaffel to me is a huge sound. as it is a bit minimal the sounds can be really cranked up - especially on the breaks (which there tend to be quite a few of). It is also pretty Dark and Nasty - yet at other times a bit ambient. Skazi is the full on Shaffel sound - wheras something like Pixel - on Pure MDMA 2 is the groovier end. On a good PA it sounds fantastic - on a crap PA it will sound twice as powerful as anything else (usually:) Still pretty good to dance to. You can even have a stomp to it. _ Jeff - Not quite sure what you mean mate? Let the music grow in me? It started two years ago and has grown - yes it has grown. Not what you meant I am sure. Do you mean within a track? Full on grows and progresses just as much as the minimal. So it builds and builds - and delivers. Where as Prog/min builds and build and then just doesn't deliver. It is like never quite reaching an orgasm. Disappointing. If a music doesn't make you want to dance then is it dance music? Or is it music for sitting on a couch and listening to... I think not. Who the hell wants to pay £15 to stand a listen to someone play - that sounds like a rock concert... what fun Me I want to go to a party and hear full on music (complete with progression through individual tracks AND through a set) that allows me the dance like no ones is watching and GO INTO A TRANCE. If you want to stand around and let the music build within you fine - I want to express myself through dance so I go to dance parties. The main problem I have is with parties that flyer themselves as Full on and play Progressive (or Even worse play Full on pitched very low aka UN-NAMED LONDON DJ's, etc). Don't even get me started on people standing like a wall on the 'dance' floor... Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Novacula Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I am sure I forgot to mention a few other styles. And sub styles as well. Here is one more Shaffel - This is a relatively new style (I think??) that is a darker and nastier version of progressive with a fair bit of Tech/industrial thrown in. Bascially most of the stuff on Skazi's label Shaffel, also the old MDMA etc... I must admit that I quite like this sound. I had never even really clicked to it until I saw Dual Head play in london. Shaffel to me is a huge sound. as it is a bit minimal the sounds can be really cranked up - especially on the breaks (which there tend to be quite a few of). It is also pretty Dark and Nasty - yet at other times a bit ambient. Skazi is the full on Shaffel sound - wheras something like Pixel - on Pure MDMA 2 is the groovier end. On a good PA it sounds fantastic - on a crap PA it will sound twice as powerful as anything else (usually:) Still pretty good to dance to. You can even have a stomp to it. _ Jeff - Not quite sure what you mean mate? Let the music grow in me? It started two years ago and has grown - yes it has grown. Not what you meant I am sure. Do you mean within a track? Full on grows and progresses just as much as the minimal. So it builds and builds - and delivers. Where as Prog/min builds and build and then just doesn't deliver. It is like never quite reaching an orgasm. Disappointing. If a music doesn't make you want to dance then is it dance music? Or is it music for sitting on a couch and listening to... I think not. Who the hell wants to pay £15 to stand a listen to someone play - that sounds like a rock concert... what fun Me I want to go to a party and hear full on music (complete with progression through individual tracks AND through a set) that allows me the dance like no ones is watching and GO INTO A TRANCE. If you want to stand around and let the music build within you fine - I want to express myself through dance so I go to dance parties. The main problem I have is with parties that flyer themselves as Full on and play Progressive (or Even worse play Full on pitched very low aka UN-NAMED LONDON DJ's, etc). Don't even get me started on people standing like a wall on the 'dance' floor... Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest krize Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 hehehe ) yeah I agree that to be fully satisfied on the dance floor, it have to be full on .. As you said it delivers, while most of the progressive stuff builds up but doesnt deliver .... hehe the full on sound, is so full of energy .. Well Shaffel is record company, they got their style, but I dont know if I would call it a new style ... The ones i have heard from shaffel (erlixir and skaz) are both very good .... Skazi got a great live performance as well (atleast at boOm..) keep it full on and psychedelic !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Novacula Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I only refer to Shaffel as a style/sub style as a way of categorising it. There is even a track out with the name Shafflin Beat (If I remember correctly - just can't place it as yet) - A nice shaffl esqe track. If you know the music you will know what I am talking about. Characterised by a bit of Israeli/Goa Melodies, rolling fat basslines, hats and a few more hats and cymbols make a guest apperance. Things like hats hitting on every bass kick - ching ching ching ching. Pretty dark, percussive rythyms. Huge psychedelic sounds... reverb... As far as I know that style/sub is called Shaffel - but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Abdalonyme Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I agree with the fact that a dj that is not dancing himself should not play for a dance floor but in a other room. The party i prefer are the one with full-on all night in the main room with a huge dance floor and a other room where you can here a larger range of style. But a party with full-on all night and nothing else is not a good party. After 8 hrs of full-on u just don't feel good and pray for a prog. track!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Novacula Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Thinking of this has made me wonder what peoples thoughts are on when to play what sort of music. Clubs - 10 - 7am say Outdoor - 8pm through night and next day till say 4pm For me I am only interested in the Full on Room/Stage Usually the parties get more full on as night passes. I am wandering what the line up will be Samothraki this year - with progressive on the main stage (eek!) Will progressive be from maybe 10am until 4pm? What are you thoughts - be useful info for orgainsing parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike D Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Interestign ideas here... I'd say I prefer full on during the night, this includes the darker stuff like Dark Soho/Tim Schuldt/Cydonia/Space Cat etc. Minimal stuff like Midi Miliz is great at night time but it is beter to have it going all night and not mixing up in anight of full on,a sthye really don't fit, and nothing has done it more for me in the mornig than outback Lyndhurst hearing son kite type progressive tunes in the hot sun and the wind blowing. It's all about environemnt and mood and emotions, I think every style is great in it's appropriate setting and sometimes it just seems crap, like yesterday I couldn't stop listening to Mid Milis/SPirallianz/X-Dream/The Delta/3 Point Turn yet today I am in such a mood for full and melodic (crystal skulls comp and Yahel - Hallucinate). It is about experience your mind/emotions/spirit in different forms of sonic interpretation, psy is not just a dance it is a way of expereimenting with your spiritual self, I rarely go to a party expecting to just dance, go home and sleep, 60% of the time I like to sit at the table in a club, or on the grass/dirt outdoors and listen to the music and enjoy the setting/artwork, 30% I dance my arse off it is something I know or I feel drawn into. 10% I am not in the mood for this style and usually go for a walk. I think the great thing is I no longer feel the need to drink or take intoxicants to have a great time, rarely do I get intoxicated at party's as I feel less of the true vibe, but each to his own, I just find if I wanna stomp then I"ll chuck on some NRG/Happy Hardcore or Gabba and that does it, there is more to psytrance than just music and beats :-) There is emoption and spirit and a true love of creating a uniquie sonic trip into another part of your personal worl n temple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sienis Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 i think it´s just plain stupid to play some sub genre at some exact point of day...i´m not a DJ, it´s more of a hobby for me....and everytime i get to spin a bit i play EVERYTHING i like....from progressive > goa > finnish spugedelic > fullon..... i think a DJ should make more effort to make the set more like one big track that has it´s slower and faster and more melodic parts etc... i get bored no matter what´s played if it´s the same poo over and over again.... there´s different mindstates to different BPMs on the dancefloor...and if you´re a good DJ you should be able to mix a bigger range of styles... give it a try, just once.... =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sienis Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 i think it´s just plain stupid to play some sub genre at some exact point of day...i´m not a DJ, it´s more of a hobby for me....and everytime i get to spin a bit i play EVERYTHING i like....from progressive > goa > finnish spugedelic > fullon..... i think a DJ should make more effort to make the set more like one big track that has it´s slower and faster and more melodic parts etc... i get bored no matter what´s played if it´s the same poo over and over again.... there´s different mindstates to different BPMs on the dancefloor...and if you´re a good DJ you should be able to mix a bigger range of styles... give it a try, just once.... =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sienis Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 i think it´s just plain stupid to play some sub genre at some exact point of day...i´m not a DJ, it´s more of a hobby for me....and everytime i get to spin a bit i play EVERYTHING i like....from progressive > goa > finnish spugedelic > fullon..... i think a DJ should make more effort to make the set more like one big track that has it´s slower and faster and more melodic parts etc... i get bored no matter what´s played if it´s the same poo over and over again.... there´s different mindstates to different BPMs on the dancefloor...and if you´re a good DJ you should be able to mix a bigger range of styles... give it a try, just once.... =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Let me just say that I'm all for these sorts of posts nowadays. A year and a half ago, amongst the plethora of "MINIMAL SUCKS" topics (yeah, I used the word "plethora" - I could've used "legion," but I didn't), we would've killed for a topic like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest krize Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 hehe thats true man, remember moonie posting LOTS of topics about minimal/full on ... hehe funny stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Novacula Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Ok assuming you have a full on type of Party/Festival - lets use Samothraki 2003 as an example. I am thinking that the less known/lighter DJ's will play until around midnight - standard in Clubs as well. For a few hours thereabouts will be mad trippy shit for all those coming up. Lots of breaks - and uplifting (fingers crossed to aviod cheese factor 9) sort of stuff. Getting darker and nastier as night progresses. For me this is when anyone playing a techy set should get in out of the way - come 3am the full on really starts building right up to mad as fuck as the sun comes up - and stomping through to maybe 9am - 10 am. The can start buttoning the speed and full ness down and if they really got to play some progressive - the can start that after... going until 4pm or whenever they stop. The line up last year didn't always follow a pattern like this mainly seemed to. Anyone who organises must make the decision before the parties of who play when. Pretty important because this should determine to some extent the tracks a DJ plays. So for a party that goes for say 24 hours non stop - who to play when??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snoosnoo Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Novacula, that's the whole point with minimal/progressive. It doesn't DELIVER because it shouldn't have to. Wouldn't you say a good book always hides its meaning? I think with minimal, people draw their own conclsuions becasue it leaves your mind wondering, whereas full on can be very predictable. I like full on, don't get me wrong, but I have plenty of reasons why I prefer minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rx7style Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Personally, if you don't play to the crowd, you aren't a good DJ. You can't script a set to a tee, and if you do, you'll be spinning for parties in your basement really fast. I can't even remember a set I've done where I followed my "flight plan" within even a mile of what I had thought I was going to do. Spontaneity and intelligent musical phrasing is key in any good set; this is the only way you can order your records to fit the mood of the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Setsuko Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 nice words snoosnoo .. indeed it's all a matter of taste , I used to get furious sometimes starting the same discussions over and over again .. today I've got another view on how things are going .. if you compare the styles to making love .. he he full-on is indeed very energetic with a big climax , like having very exciting and fast sex .. progressive sound is more like having tantric sexual ecstacy ..with this I mean having sex without ejaculating .. but with deeper universal emotions and more divine orgasms. the construction and speed in the minimal sounds is based on the way it hypnotises the dancers , on top of the smooth groovy rhythems ... but hey ... minimal is my style and I like it . can't wait to get my hands on the new Manta compilation "Subduction" psy bye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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