The "Not as much love for IFO as everyone else" thread

[Otter]

You are aware it's totally possible for randomity and chaos to sound melodic to human ears? If it's created by chance then it's random no matter what the result is. God, this is basic english.

[Ormion]

The difference is that if you take a scale, for example the classical jewish one that astral projection and mfg used all the time and stick to that scale but add notes randomly within the scale, and stick to the timing as well it will sound GOOD however you do it. Thats how arabic/oriental scales work. I can make some examples with audio and midi as well if anyone is interested.

 

The examples you made was not good at all, and they both sound random to me, because they are out of scale! The difference is if someone just add notes totally random, or radomly clicks notes with the mouse within a known scale. If it is within a scale it WILL sound harmonic!

 

And for anyone who has made goa thats just so obvious.

The second ''melody'' was random random clicks notes. There wasn't any scale, just closed my eyes and clicked. The first one is clear melody for me (crappy of course bit still melody).

You are aware it's totally possible for randomity and chaos to sound melodic to human ears? If it's created by chance then it's random no matter what the result is. God, this is basic english.

I don't disagree at all, I use the word melody in its real meaning. The noise of the streets sounds melodic to some ppl so it's melody for them, but the word ''melody'' doesn't fit quite well , does it?

When you were messing with the sequencer and Goa-ish melodies popped up you were aiming for a melody, right?

[Veracohr]

Saying "this is bad", "overrated" etc. is pretty pointless. Especially when it comes to old releases which don't affect the current scene in any relevant way. Only circumstances where such style of writing or behaviour is any good is when you strive to change something. Will people who like IFO suddenly stop liking it after you express your negative opinion about it? No?

 

What is the point of bashing something that is there and will stay there? IFO is what it is, won't be any different and won't be erased off the existance no matter how much you say it sucks.

 

These sort of threads are the most idiotic of em all. It's obvious a thread like this leads to two sides, the ones who like and the ones who don't like, having friction.

I didn't say it was bad, I don't have a negative opinion of it, and I don't want to change anyone's opinion (and if I did, I know this wouldn't be the way to do it). Isn't the point of this forum to talk about psy? I was bored and thinking about the album.

[Oopie]

I didn't say it was bad, I don't have a negative opinion of it, and I don't want to change anyone's opinion (and if I did, I know this wouldn't be the way to do it). Isn't the point of this forum to talk about psy? I was bored and thinking about the album.

It was more of a general remark to make people understand there's no need to battle whether IFO is good or not.

 

Only thing directed at you was "These sort of threads are the most idiotic of em all. It's obvious a thread like this leads to two sides, the ones who like and the ones who don't like, having friction."

 

See? This thread hasn't made anyone change their taste in the direction of yours. If that's not what you're after then what's the purpose for such topic to begin with? It seems to be ~IFO's not as good as generally considered~.

 

"there's nothing about it that really stands out"

"in contrast, other artists have songs that really stand out to me. There's nothing by Pleiadians I've heard that I would remember a melody or anything from."

 

Now there's nothing wrong with such opinions per se. But in the end, throwing such bold negative oriented statements on an album hailed as a classic and loved by many people inevitably leads to people fighting over nutn.

 

It's clear this topic would cause friction and it did. Hence idiotic.

[buzzman]

This and all other oldschool... The outdated mastering/production (caused by outdated equipment i guess? )allways annoys me when im sober. After listening to all the newly released electronic music, i just can't make myself listen to it longer than a couple of tracks... Think that's why i don't join your pleidians,hallucinogen,ect gang :/

 

When im high on something it's a different story though

[Veracohr]

It was more of a general remark to make people understand there's no need to battle whether IFO is good or not.

 

Only thing directed at you was "These sort of threads are the most idiotic of em all. It's obvious a thread like this leads to two sides, the ones who like and the ones who don't like, having friction."

 

See? This thread hasn't made anyone change their taste in the direction of yours. If that's not what you're after then what's the purpose for such topic to begin with? It seems to be ~IFO's not as good as generally considered~.

 

"there's nothing about it that really stands out"

"in contrast, other artists have songs that really stand out to me. There's nothing by Pleiadians I've heard that I would remember a melody or anything from."

 

Now there's nothing wrong with such opinions per se. But in the end, throwing such bold negative oriented statements on an album hailed as a classic and loved by many people inevitably leads to people fighting over nutn.

 

It's clear this topic would cause friction and it did. Hence idiotic.

You're the only one that seemed to think it was negative. Everyone else took it the way I intended it, as a discussion of the variance of opinion.

[Oopie]

You're the only one that seemed to think it was negative. Everyone else took it the way I intended it, as a discussion of the variance of opinion.

Might be the only one, or just was the one saying it out loud.

[frozen dream]

ifo+train to chroma city :posford:

 

the melodies like in all etnica songs just come as they go, no fancy structures, never. on this point, train to chroma city is a bit better.

 

but it worxxxx :posford: mad party music made with only that intent

 

vimana, floating universe, elektra, asterope!!! yaaa goaaaa :posford: :posford: :posford:

[Peyote]

It has been my favorite album for a long time, now I find it rather medicore. There's way better music out there like the firt 2 etnica albums, once in a while I can enjoy it though.

[Anoebis]

It has been my favorite album for a long time, now I find it rather medicore. There's way better music out there like the firt 2 etnica albums, once in a while I can enjoy it though.

I agree 100%... Today I still listen to it, once in a while, and I still like it alot (Alcyone I still adore) but sometimes it became a little too maximal for listening music for me (I blame my age), I prefer Alien protein, Juggeling Alchemists, Ra,... just because of the less maximal and more sensitive melodies

[Lemmiwinks]

The difference is that if you take a scale, for example the classical jewish one that astral projection and mfg used all the time and stick to that scale but add notes randomly within the scale, and stick to the timing as well it will sound GOOD however you do it. Thats how arabic/oriental scales work. I can make some examples with audio and midi as well if anyone is interested.

actually I'm VERY interested... if what you say is true, that would basically mean that all my childhood heroes I cherished so much were just making random melodies??? I'd cry if that was true but I'd like to see an actual example so I can judge by myself.

 

Other than that, IMO you can clearly see the difference between real melodies and random melodies by comparing Pleiadians to Filteria... they basically use the same formula but the end result is VERY different. That's what separates the good from the best IMO

[qa2pir]

actually I'm VERY interested... if what you say is true, that would basically mean that all my childhood heroes I cherished so much were just making random melodies??? I'd cry if that was true but I'd like to see an actual example so I can judge by myself.

 

Other than that, IMO you can clearly see the difference between real melodies and random melodies by comparing Pleiadians to Filteria... they basically use the same formula but the end result is VERY different. That's what separates the good from the best IMO

No, Mahadeva is not random, I can assure you. You can tell because the melodies are focused on the root note, which is played more often than others. Also, they often climb up and down the scale. Not very random.

 

And songs like Liquid Sun are not random by any stretch.

 

Pleiadians are a bit closer to random but that's a good thing. Embracing the chaos while still shaping it. Lovely.

[Lemmiwinks]

On top of that, I hate talking about drugs, but I admit that if you hear it under psychedelics, you will rediscover it a million times under a million suns and your life will change forever.

 

same can be said about Madonna

[Lemmiwinks]

No, Mahadeva is not random, I can assure you. You can tell because the melodies are focused on the root note, which is played more often than others. Also, they often climb up and down the scale. Not very random.

 

And songs like Liquid Sun are not random by any stretch.

 

Pleiadians are a bit closer to random but that's a good thing. Embracing the chaos while still shaping it. Lovely.

well I'd still like to hear an actual example so I can tell by myself

[braininavat]

It was released when Goa was really expanding to its best, it's to be seen in its context.

Yea to me it has to be seen in its context. Its not something I really listen to anymore but if you compare it to stuff that was released before it, it was completely out there and mind blowing.

Technically, the production blows by modern standards but I think you also have to keep in mind the production was aimed at a huge system being played off vinyl. I think you should also keep in mind that a 166mhz pentium was a fast computer at the time, it had to be quite a challenge just to record all those parts without bringing the computer to its knees.

[Ormion]

I agree 100%... Today I still listen to it, once in a while, and I still like it alot (Alcyone I still adore) but sometimes it became a little too maximal for listening music for me (I blame my age), I prefer Alien protein, Juggeling Alchemists, Ra,... just because of the less maximal and more sensitive melodies

You're getting old my friend!

[frozen dream]

Yea to me it has to be seen in its context. Its not something I really listen to anymore but if you compare it to stuff that was released before it, it was completely out there and mind blowing.

Technically, the production blows by modern standards but I think you also have to keep in mind the production was aimed at a huge system being played off vinyl. I think you should also keep in mind that a 166mhz pentium was a fast computer at the time, it had to be quite a challenge just to record all those parts without bringing the computer to its knees.

+anybody who yaps about the mastering is some sunday fool

[qa2pir]

Sorry no offence.. but who the f*** said that Astral Projections music is random? This thread is drifting away and getting more and more offtopic and confused.

 

Cant someone make a new thread instad where we praise some albums instead? And just so people dont get me wrong, i have lots of love for their Etnica project.. (atleast some tracks) its just the Pleiadians one that i dont find as interesting. And as Mars stated it indeed has to viewed in its context, when it was released etc what relationship or experiences one might have had with the music when it was brand new.

 

Since i just heard some of their tracks on compilations back then and never really got into them since my first perception made a lasting impression so to say. I couldnt help to feel like as if their tracks sounded inferior to other stuff i happend to dig more at the time.

Actually its more in recent years that i have learned to appreciate the Etnica stuff more, after hearing Filteria live here in Sweden where he played some Etnica/Pleiadians remixes wich worked wonders in the forest, i started to do some "research" to see what all the fuzz was about..

 

And my conclusion is that this type of music is straigth for the parties

at least for me its to stressy to listen to at home.

 

 

Thats just my little anecdote.

 

 

Cheers

You said random melodies within a certain scale could sound good. And Lemmiwinks feared that AP had used this method. I tried to convince them that they haven't.

 

No offense or anything.

[rino]

Maximal "fuck you if you don't like it!!!" party music, which sounds like, and makes you feel their writing block blasting through the speakers.

 

I.F.O. has the (back then) 4 members scraping out all the ideas in their brains and laying them over a compact disc surface.

 

It is hard, relentless, window shattering music, but above all, absolutely unwilling to compromise its artisitc value and an undeniable intensity factor in return for some widespread appreciation. A cruncher of an album.

 

My type of music. Dance until you die. Well, I will, you do whatever the fuck makes you happy.

[Ormion]

Maximal "fuck you if you don't like it!!!" party music, which sounds like, and makes you feel their writing block blasting through the speakers.

 

I.F.O. has the (back then) 4 members scraping out all the ideas in their brains and laying them over a compact disc surface.

 

It is hard, relentless, window shattering music, but above all, absolutely unwilling to compromise its artisitc value and an undeniable intensity factor in return for some widespread appreciation. A cruncher of an album.

 

My type of music. Dance until you die. Well, I will, you do whatever the fuck makes you happy.

I'm with you all the way rino!

 

For me IFO was and still is the definiton of Psytrance. Everything else sounds so much less psychedelic to my ears.

[Sideffect...]

I'm with you all the way rino!

 

For me IFO was and still is the definition of Psytrance. Everything else sounds so much less psychedelic to my ears.

For me IFO was and still is the definition of Goatrance, not psytrance imo, there are albums with a higher level of psychedelic then IFO,

 

taste

[qualia]

IMO Pleiadians lack proper melodic structure, no catchy melodies to remember, just an infinite drive of short notes.. or sometimes the opposite.. with the same melody over and over again throughout the entire track, this was kind of evident as well in their Crop Circles project.. i mean like in that track Lunar Civilizations.. that melody just goes on and on on top of that its very high pitched, and it gets tiresome.

This annoyed me so I had to post lol...

 

The point of a lot of older trance was to be hypnotic and this was done by repeating melodies over and over and building on them bit by bit. A lot of this music was produced like that at the time and I enjoy that sound.

 

An old head once told me that Posford isn't real psy and I thought this comment was sacriledge until I actually understood what psy trance was really about... The hypnotic element isn't as important anymore and certainly isn't as strong in a lot of modern psy or in Posfords music ever.

 

Also, you can't really say Pleiadians lack proper melodic structure. Everyone made music using these "short notes" at the time. Melodically and structurally, the Pleiadians sound was perfect and highly complex. Andrea Rizzo was classically trained. All of the members of the original Etnica/Pleiadians had loads of industry and musical experience in fact. You have to realise the equipment these guys were working with and the kind of music their contemporaries were making. It really does stand out and it still is one of the best psy albums ever.

 

Oh, and in my opinion Family of Light has more in common with pop trance than true psy.

[Lemmiwinks]

Sorry no offence.. but who the f*** said that Astral Projections music is random? This thread is drifting away and getting more and more offtopic and confused.

 

err... you did... right here:

 

The difference is that if you take a scale, for example the classical jewish one that astral projection and mfg used all the time and stick to that scale but add notes randomly within the scale, and stick to the timing as well it will sound GOOD however you do it. Thats how arabic/oriental scales work. I can make some examples with audio and midi as well if anyone is interested.

 

We are all entitled to our opinions i have my view on this clear since the 90´s and if Andrea is classicaly trained or not is something i couldnt care less about since its all programmed music and not something he/they played in real time.. and yeah its very commonly known that melodies were looped and repeated like a "mantra" to induce trance states in peoples minds and what ever. I stand firm to my opinions like a statue, that you will not be able to move.. so good luck!

 

Thanks for trying to "teach" me something, anyway trying to discuss Pleiadians with hardcore Pleiadians fans is just like trying to discuss if Michael Jackson is a pedophile or not with his fans :wank:

 

And yeah i DO know what type of equipment they worked with. On you it sounds as if these guys were on the same level as Mozart or something, man seriously take it for what it is, programmed music.. made by mouse clicks.

 

When you say man seriously take it for what it is, programmed music.. made by mouse clicks I wonder if you even listen to electronic music at all cause I cannot see a SINGLE electronic music track that does NOT fit your description... also if you take it that way, Mozart is just random scriblings of a pen on some paper that happened to sound good? :blink:

 

I don't like to sound judgemental but I'm getting the feeling that you're trying to come off as knowing a lot more than you actually do. Just post some links to so-called random melodies in a scale that sound good whatever you do and I'll finance your next album

[qualia]

We are all entitled to our opinions i have my view on this clear since the 90´s and if Andrea is classicaly trained or not is something i couldnt care less about since its all programmed music and not something he/they played in real time.. and yeah its very commonly known that melodies were looped and repeated like a "mantra" to induce trance states in peoples minds and what ever. I stand firm to my opinions like a statue, that you will not be able to move.. so good luck!

 

Thanks for trying to "teach" me something, anyway trying to discuss Pleiadians with hardcore Pleiadians fans is just like trying to discuss if Michael Jackson is a pedophile or not with his fans :wank:

 

And yeah i DO know what type of equipment they worked with. On you it sounds as if these guys were on the same level as Mozart or something, man seriously take it for what it is, programmed music.. made by mouse clicks.

 

How old are you? About 15? You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder. I wasn't insulting so I'm wondering what has elicited this vitriolic response? I only gave my opinion in response to your sweeping and unfounded one. And of course everyone has an opinion... I wasn't trying to teach you anything. Besides, a fool set in his ways isn't ready to learn anything in any case.

 

Programmed or not, intelligent composition requires skill and knowledge (which Rizzo had). This is fact. There are no opinions required. I'm sure Mozart would've dreamed of making music like this. If only they had sequencers in his time...

 

Anyway, have a couple of these back: :wank: :wank:

[Anoebis]

man seriously take it for what it is, programmed music.. made by mouse clicks.

This is such bull shit, then Mozart's music is just some notes on a piece of paper... There is a difference in writing music between electronic and classical music, that's all...

 

Edit: I agree with Lemmi