The "Not as much love for IFO as everyone else" thread

[rino]

Sunwolf, not only are you placing DJ Tiesto, Dave Clarke and who else not in the same sentence, but you're calling me a moron for providing trustworthy and corrct facts.

 

So wait, because A.P.'s music is more layered than Hawtin's, Derrick May's, Dave Clarke's or any given XY producer whose input in the overall development of electronic music beats the living devil out of practically any goa trance artist's discography, means that the aforementioned israeli duo is better/more talented? Right.

I wonder how long have you been acquainted with the term "electronic music"? Why don't you go around and try explaining to people why are multi layered, climax driven goa trance tunes historically more important for electronic music than virtually any given tune recorded by any of the producers I've listed above. And see what you get except for "Who the fuck are Astral Projection?!?!" in a 90 percentile average as the answer.

Go ahead and diss some more if it's going to make you feel better. Because that is as good as it will get for you and your crew of 20 shiva shanti illusioned babas.

 

Hell, if owning Astral Projection CDs makes one intelectually superior, than I'm Nikola Tesla.

It's fun however how except for a super limited and restricted amount of people nobody has ever heard about these alleged heroes and genius producers... Sure, place 28 layer in one track and be happy if 28 people cop your album. But hey, "look ma, I'm an undeservably neglected genius!"...

[Goa Bill]

Can you possibly fail to grasp that it requires more talent to coordinate 300 layers than 5 or 10 and come up with something that it's bearable to listen to? You can't just randomly guess at which succession of notes each individual in the orchestra should be playing and come out with the masterpiece symphony. You can quite easily make a simple catchy tune. Goa Trance falls somewhere in the middle there.

No, you are wrong.

Examples?

Plastikman>Any Dark Psy artist with 400 layers in a track.

It's never about quantity but about quality.

Plastikman's Closer and Consumed takes me to much deeper psychedelic realms than everything with thousands of layers that is being released nowadays.

[Goa Bill]

It's a good question. Probably because I am an idiot.

Hehe, you sir have made a stupid deed but you're in luck cause this album is a classic. And you probably can sell it to a fellow idiot for twice what you paid to Lube U.

[rino]

Pavel's example proves my point. And if you're so confident that god like goa trance prodcuers are so divinely gifted, why don't you explain to a mortal how do your favorites, Transwave and Dimension 5, stand against heavy weight electronic music champions, such as Hawtin, Dopplereffekt, or Jochem Paap? I don't think a single individual who has any insight of electronic music would consider Deep Space 5D historically more important and influential than Spastik. Layers? Kids talk, my man...

Tell me how does their alleged complex layering place them ahead of the examples I gave above? I rest my case.

[sunwolf]

Straw man.

 

All I stated is: More layers require more skill to coordinate with a positive outcome (see my first line!!). Layered random noise takes no genius obviously. Layered music may still not be very good music. Layered music may still lack creativity. But if it is good music, it required more skill to create.

 

That music requires more skill to create DOES NOT MEAN that it will effect the history of music more. It DOES NOT MEAN that it will be more popular. It simply means it required more skill to make. Many people don't appreciate musical genius and just like to listen to catchy emotional melodies as a sort of escapism (probably including you).

[NEMO.BOFH]

No, you are wrong.

Examples?

Plastikman>Any Dark Psy artist with 400 layers in a track.

It's never about quantity but about quality.

Plastikman's Closer and Consumed takes me to much deeper psychedelic realms than everything with thousands of layers that is being released nowadays.

A TO THE M TO THE E TO THE N!

 

THE TUNNEL!

[NEMO.BOFH]

More layers require more skill to coordinate with a positive outcome (see my first line!!).

B to the ULLSHIT!

[Otto Matta]

[NEMO.BOFH]

[Ormion]

I agree with sunwolf, but I don't disagree with rino.

 

Making great multi-layered music that sounds great and not as random chaos requires skill.

Making one-two layered music that doesn't sound boring requires skill too.

 

That's the bottom line IMO.

[Otto Matta]

Making great multi-layered music that sounds great and not as random chaos requires skill.

Making one-two layered music that doesn't sound boring requires skill too.

 

That's the bottom line IMO.

A sensible comment! Congratulations.

[Goa Bill]

A sensible comment! Congratulations.

Head -> Nail

[sunwolf]

I agree with sunwolf, but I don't disagree with rino.

 

Making great multi-layered music that sounds great and not as random chaos requires skill.

Making one-two layered music that doesn't sound boring requires skill too.

 

That's the bottom line IMO.

Making any music requires some skill. However, I have much higher expectations of good music than that it isn't boring. (If you judge music by whether or not it can entertain you for awhile without being bored you'd might as well go listen to popular music because that's the exact point behind it! I like my music to have depth, creativity, tell some story, be realistic, approach a goal, etc, rather than just another attempt to find an "infinite melody" that will put me into a lengthy state of bliss.)

 

Bottom line is, though, that with two layers you can largely exhaust your options for a 5 minute track in a week or so, while with 300 layers you could stumble around your whole life and never arrive at the best one.

[Ormion]

Making any music requires some skill. However, I have much higher expectations of good music than that it isn't boring. (If you judge music by whether or not it can entertain you for awhile without being bored you'd might as well go listen to popular music because that's the exact point behind it! I like my music to have depth, creativity, tell some story, be realistic, approach a goal, etc, rather than just another attempt to find an "infinite melody" that will put me into a lengthy state of bliss.)

 

Bottom line is, though, that with two layers you can largely exhaust your options for a 5 minute track in a week or so, while with 300 layers you could stumble around your whole life and never arrive at the best one.

I don't disagree at all. What I'm trying to say is quite simple

When you write a track with dozens of layers the biggest concern is how to make all these layers flow and not sound like a mess.

When you write a one-two layers track your biggest concern is how to make these two layers to don't expire in a matter of seconds and keep your track going for minutes.

In both cases requires skills

I hope you got my point.

[NEMO.BOFH]

Head -> Nail

Head -> Mouth -> Nail

[NEMO.BOFH]

Making any music requires some skill. However, I have much higher expectations of good music than that it isn't boring. (If you judge music by whether or not it can entertain you for awhile without being bored you'd might as well go listen to popular music because that's the exact point behind it! I like my music to have depth, creativity, tell some story, be realistic, approach a goal, etc, rather than just another attempt to find an "infinite melody" that will put me into a lengthy state of bliss.)

 

Bottom line is, though, that with two layers you can largely exhaust your options for a 5 minute track in a week or so, while with 300 layers you could stumble around your whole life and never arrive at the best one.

shiiieeeet man. you are talking about taste and personal preference here, not being objective at all musically. geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedouddaere. *user banned*

[sunwolf]

shiiieeeet man. you are talking about taste and personal preference here, not being objective at all musically. geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedouddaere. *user banned*

Don't be an idiot, I talked of personal preference in the parentheses only.

 

If you give a computer 2 layers it could print out all possible combinations for a 5 minute track for you in a week.

If you give it 300 layers it would take years.

 

The genius is the special talent for arranging a massive amount of layers. Many people can arrange 2 layers successfully giving a little time and guess work.

[NEMO.BOFH]

Don't be an idiot, I talked of personal preference in the parentheses only.

 

If you give a computer 2 layers it could print out all possible combinations for a 5 minute track for you in a week.

If you give it 300 layers it would take years.

 

The genius is the special talent for arranging a massive amount of layers. Many people can arrange 2 layers successfully giving a little time and guess work.

sorry, but I am drunk and when I am drunk, I say what I feel and here goes: "You sir, are so wrong!" but hey, live in your little bubble, I have no time to waste on you.

[sunwolf]

"You sir, are so wrong!"

I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I? :wank:

[NEMO.BOFH]

I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I? :wank:

a wanker, thats what I am, but I rather be a wanker than being an ass with an iq of 6.

[frozen dream]

sorry, but I am drunk and when I am drunk, I say what I feel and here goes: "You sir, are so wrong!" but hey, live in your little bubble, I have no time to waste on you.

times change i guess

[Otto Matta]

Hey, just curious, would people consider a solo piano piece one layer or more layers? Plastikman is boring!

[NEMO.BOFH]

times change i guess

i guess.

 

Hey, just curious, would people consider a solo piano piece one layer or more layers? Plastikman is boring!

i guess you want to make a point in how you use your piano, right? i guess it could be 2 or more layers, but I am no piano player, so maybe we should ask someone that does play piano. also, does it not depend on HOW you use the piano when you play it? About Plastikman being boring, are you not again just referring to personal taste? I find Penta boring for example, but thats just my taste speaking, not what I think about him as a producer, nor about his skills as a musician.

[Otto Matta]

i guess you want to make a point in how you use your piano, right? i guess it could be 2 or more layers, but I am no piano player, so maybe we should ask someone that does play piano. also, does it not depend on HOW you use the piano when you play it? About Plastikman being boring, are you not again just referring to personal taste? I find Penta boring for example, but thats just my taste speaking, not what I think about him as a producer, nor about his skills as a musician.

I was just being stupid about Plastikman. I do find that music very boring - same with Penta, actually - but I was just trying to be funny.

 

Regarding piano, if it's just one layer then much of this conversation goes to shit. If it's not one layer, then what about guitar? The only way I see that either could be more than one layer is by using Frippertronics or some similar live looping/layering machine.

[sunwolf]

I think the piano should be thought of as multiple layers. You can press up to 10 (or more?) keys at once. It's a different type of music though. Nobody would be impressed if someone imitated a piano song in electronic music because they aren't sitting there furiously pushing piano keys, there is so much more potential.