Daniël Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 actually I'm VERY interested... if what you say is true, that would basically mean that all my childhood heroes I cherished so much were just making random melodies??? I'd cry if that was true but I'd like to see an actual example so I can judge by myself. lol. you didn't figure out yet that the musical level of goa is pretty.........well....it's nothing more then just jamming around with the basics. The synth sounds are cool though. This is such bull shit, then Mozart's music is just some notes on a piece of paper... There is a difference in writing music between electronic and classical music, that's all... Mozart is disconnected from Phrase, his music flows and lives, it is much more layered then electronic music and all these layers have a specific function to another. Every music (sub)genre has it's set of rules. the set of rules makes up the musical style and if you stick to these rules it is just a matter of inspiration and coincidence to find something good. Every work of mozart mixes these rules of different types of composition, this is very unusual and clever. Goa; and electronic music in general, is very basic, alot of phrases, alot of arpeggio's, stick to one chord, one scale. There is a musical set of laws in electronic music, but mostly it's nothing more then playing around with scales and hoping for good luck. It is not a refined composition style like you can find in Classical music with complex and strict rules who only the genius can break and bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Personally I don't give a damn if Goa Trance is a music kind easy to made. It's how this music affects me that matters. I agree that writing classical music you must be at least genious, but if the music says nothing to me why do I have to care? That's the whole point IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Ugh. Oopie was right. :drama: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Personally I don't give a damn if Goa Trance is a music kind easy to made. It's how this music affects me that matters. I agree that writing classical music you must be at least genious, but if the music says nothing to me why do I have to care? That's the whole point IMO. yeah, you're absolutely right, music is music. I don't want to diss goatrance here, just trying to place it in perspective. Actually goa has a bit of a jazzy approach, jazz uses alot of polyrhythms, swung, arpeggio's and blu enotes. But that's about it when it comes to rules, so there is alot of space for improvisation and jam sessions. And that's what jazz is about, jazz artists can play very good & complex music just out of the blue in a jam. Goa trance has a simular consensus, and if you would try to play it on live instruments there also is alot of space for improvisation. And it doesn't only sound good, it's extremely fun if you can jam music instead of compose or program music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 jazz is the only music :posford: the inspiration of the moment total freedom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 lol. you didn't figure out yet that the musical level of goa is pretty.........well....it's nothing more then just jamming around with the basics. The synth sounds are cool though. Mozart is disconnected from Phrase, his music flows and lives, it is much more layered then electronic music and all these layers have a specific function to another. Every music (sub)genre has it's set of rules. the set of rules makes up the musical style and if you stick to these rules it is just a matter of inspiration and coincidence to find something good. Every work of mozart mixes these rules of different types of composition, this is very unusual and clever. Goa; and electronic music in general, is very basic, alot of phrases, alot of arpeggio's, stick to one chord, one scale. There is a musical set of laws in electronic music, but mostly it's nothing more then playing around with scales and hoping for good luck. It is not a refined composition style like you can find in Classical music with complex and strict rules who only the genius can break and bend. Yes but... goa trance tends to be more complex than most other types of electronic music (that I know of at least!). If you remove the beat & quadruple the number of layers and have them played by an orchestra you're doing a very similar thing to what Mozart did. On the other hand if you take 1/4 the layers and make minimal or whatever else you're probably lessening the skill involved. (You can just tinker with a couple layers and come up with something that sounds catchy; more layers makes it practically impossible.) Goa trance still requires talent -- there is no doubt about this, just the exact amount! It's not easy to coordinate a handful of layers at the same time and make them all work together to produce something amazing. Weaker stuff often has random sounds thrown in that don't really add to the music! The better stuff is creative and layered and it all comes together! Many other types of electronic music are just about a couple layers and/or a beat! Looking at how fast they get produced is it's a very rough estimate as to the quality. There are very few GOOD goa groups that released multiple albums a year every year. Some albums are multiple years in the making. (Note this can indicate lack of talent as well.) In the end you must keep in mind Mozart was just one of the best of many many classical producers. Similarly there are many many goa trance producers. While I'll agree goa trance takes much less talent to produce due to it's relatively low complexity, I think those Dimension 5 guys (includes hunab ku and ra) and Transwave are amongst the higher quality goa trance producers. You must also keep in mind that the times have changed and in this nihilist age electronic music is largely marketed to low class people with no taste. This is most clearly evident in the shift to psytrance, but goa trance was not exactly produced for an aristocracy either! -- though definitely largely for more spiritual/mindful and tasteful people. Thus the best may not be the most popular. Indeed almost everyone I know "IN REAL LIFE" would rather listen to catchy tunes by Tiesto and can't stand to listen to goa trance! And to rant on... I would be an idiot to want to change this because I would rather than the mass of idiots don't listen to my higher music and stick to their surface shit. Also I should mention that many people who listen to goa trance also prefer the shittier stuff to the more skillful stuff.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 lol. you didn't figure out yet that the musical level of goa is pretty.........well....it's nothing more then just jamming around with the basics. The synth sounds are cool though. Mozart is disconnected from Phrase, his music flows and lives, it is much more layered then electronic music and all these layers have a specific function to another. Every music (sub)genre has it's set of rules. the set of rules makes up the musical style and if you stick to these rules it is just a matter of inspiration and coincidence to find something good. Every work of mozart mixes these rules of different types of composition, this is very unusual and clever. Goa; and electronic music in general, is very basic, alot of phrases, alot of arpeggio's, stick to one chord, one scale. There is a musical set of laws in electronic music, but mostly it's nothing more then playing around with scales and hoping for good luck. It is not a refined composition style like you can find in Classical music with complex and strict rules who only the genius can break and bend. ok mr smarty pants (and all the others who think that goatrance is so easy to make). If it's that easy to make then why not become the next Pleiadians or Astral Projection??? You'd make thousands of euros by having fun and journey around the world. It's every goatrancer's dream yet there you are, stuck with doing a 9 to 5 job and just fiddling around with some synths in your bedroom without actually releasing anything. Clearly this is proof that it's not as easy as you guys make it sound... Personally I fiddle around with Reason and I find it VERY hard to make something worthwhile. Agreed, sometimes you can stumble on an interesting melody just by randomly clicking on the note bars, still from that to making a whole track (album?) that sounds good is a whole different ballgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 +1 Anyway this topic is doomed to end in flame wars, and that is probably what the thread starter intended and knew when he/she whatever made it. Whats next a topic about religion? But while we are on the sensitive topic of this IFO album, one thing i wonder is: how much do you people consider this album to be worth in cash? And develope a bit why you think its worth what it is worth today. On discogs i see it for sale now for the ridiculous price of: 140 euros.. what is it that determine the value? Is it the quality of the music, or is it the rarity.. or what other factors you might find interesting to discuss. Im sure someone here must have sold or bought this particular album for some high price. because it's a CLASSIC... Yes and also rarity is another important factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 because it's a CLASSIC... Yes and also rarity is another important factor.Yes if people have a rare album they don't want to admit it's garbage because then less people will want it and they will not be in such a high position as having what others want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 yeah, you're absolutely right, music is music. I don't want to diss goatrance here, just trying to place it in perspective. Actually goa has a bit of a jazzy approach, jazz uses alot of polyrhythms, swung, arpeggio's and blu enotes. But that's about it when it comes to rules, so there is alot of space for improvisation and jam sessions. And that's what jazz is about, jazz artists can play very good & complex music just out of the blue in a jam. Goa trance has a simular consensus, and if you would try to play it on live instruments there also is alot of space for improvisation. And it doesn't only sound good, it's extremely fun if you can jam music instead of compose or program music. Sorry but goatrance and jazz is like day and night, cant be compared but i agree goa is not some divinie music that only godlike creatures can make.. its very simple music in the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Yes if people have a rare album they don't want to admit it's garbage because then less people will want it and they will not be in such a high position as having what others want. Dude, many people have agreed for a decade that IFO is something special, longtime before it became a rarity so it's much more than just a bunch of greedy discogs sellers who want to make a quick buck... Sorry but goatrance and jazz is like day and night, cant be compared but i agree goa is not some divinie music that only godlike creatures can make.. its very simple music in the end yes and how many records have you released latley so you can judge, mr Towelie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 yes and how many records have you released latley mr Towelie? What does releasing album have to do with this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Dude, many people have agreed for a decade that IFO is something special, longtime before it became a rarity so it's much more than just a bunch of greedy discogs sellers who want to make a quick buck...That's not what I meant or said. Anyways I do think it's a 5/5 album (this is a stupidly low precision scale!) just not the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 What does releasing album have to do with this ? well you say it's easy to make so if it's that easy why don't you release some music then? And don't tell me that you prefer your dayjob to becoming the next psytrance star... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braininavat Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 well you say it's easy to make so if it's that easy why don't you release some music then? And don't tell me that you prefer your dayjob to becoming the next psytrance star... Seriously, this is an extremely illogic line of arguement. Pink Floyd or the Beatles are not as complex as the most simple symphony..that doesn't follow though that The Beatles or Pink Floyd's music is simple and easy to create. Mozart made great music for prancing around 18th century austria in a powdered whig, its not exactly something I relate too or really care to experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 And don't tell me that you prefer your dayjob to becoming the next psytrance star... I do X 100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Guys don't confuse Goa Trance making with Great Goa Trance making. There's a huge difference! Everyone can make a Goa track with a soft studio and some practice, that doesn't mean that Goa is easy to be made, cause normally this track will sound mediocre at best. It's not difficult to write rock music either if you know how to play guitar or even jazz. But I agree with Lemmiwinks here. Years later and from all the new schol goa artists I haven't heard anyone that come close to the quality, complexity and magic of Pleiadians, AP, Koxbox or Transwave. Writing a catchy melody and add 2 or 3 layers on top is not such a big of deal. How are you gonna make all those elements flow together is! For me the only kind of music that it's extremelly difficult (almost imposible) to write someone without talent is classical, since (most of the times) it's a multi-layer, highly complex music with an undescribable flow. Besides classic everything else can easily or not so easily be made. Is it gonna be any good? I doubt that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 ok mr smarty pants (and all the others who think that goatrance is so easy to make). If it's that easy to make then why not become the next Pleiadians or Astral Projection??? You'd make thousands of euros by having fun and journey around the world. It's every goatrancer's dream yet there you are, stuck with doing a 9 to 5 job and just fiddling around with some synths in your bedroom without actually releasing anything. Clearly this is proof that it's not as easy as you guys make it sound... ok, it may sound smarty pants stuff, sorry for that, but it's the truth. I feel like i just walked into a church and screamed: "Jesus was just a just vulnerable human" resulting in fainting people all around it is not about good or bad here, just perspective. I've been making music for 7 years, and i never promoted my work towards labels and organizers, because i always want more, it's never good enough, and i don't want to rush in and make something mediocre but acceptable by a limited public. I do not care about the money but about knowledge & technical skills. Success is not proof of knowledge & technical skills, alot of succesfull music is easy to make, but that doesn't make it inferior, it's good to have a simple formula that works perfect but my interest is more than just nice tunes. I am a sound technician and have to work with hordes of (sometimes annoying) musicians & actors each day; it just made me see things differently, but i still respect goa-trance, it is amongst my fav genres, it's good music, but it's in a different perspective now. When it comes to music & audio i am satisfied with what i have now, but i want to be realistic, know where i'm standing, how i must grow and have a realistic image about the universe of music. if you want to listen to some of my music: clicky My most musical tracks are blue void,sharkbits, varuna, astral pulse & medusa. All tracks are made within a timespan of 4 hours. I always set up a few musical laws before i begin. Basically when you have this set it will make things easier cause you can't go wrong, it's just a matter of inspiration. IMO, if someone needs more than 2 hours to lay out the musical base of a track he's doing something wrong. Music is a language, it has grammar and vocabulary, so good music is poetry, it has to be made fast; in the flow. the only way to do that is to jam it while keeping a certain set of laws in the back of your head. I jam on my midicontroller for 30 minutes, record everything, sequence it, tune it, construct a composition and my track is finished, just have to add some spices. Although i am never satisfied with the outcome, it feels more like an ongoing journey, it's never good enough. I find my music not challenging enough to decode and there is only a personal input, i can not communicate with other inputs, which is an annoying limitation imo. What interest me the most is live music and how it should be constructed technically so the music can be a flow of inspiration in a jamsession instead of predetermined sequences, If you can't share your enthusiasm with other people there is no flying fuck to it. And the experience of being completely live is my ultimate XTC, I can fuck it all up, right in front of a huge crowd, and that happened several times. I once fucked up in front of 400.000 viewers on TV, had to change a patch with 150 inputs 8 times within a minute, started of wrong and i linked the intercom of the director on air instead of their return mix. and I once completely fucked up in a theater and blew up 2 speakers and a sub (probably a few ears too). But i also did pure art, pure live, without a single mistake. oh and one more thing, i'm talking about goa in general, there are musical gems in goa too, like Khetzal-corolle , that stand out completely with head & shoulders between the horde. But if you look at the complete spectrum of goatrance i tend to find it musically simplistic, melodic though, but not musical. Not better or worse than full-on, it's roundabout the same level. But like i said, a good formula is enough to catch interest, all music is great music, the expression of creativity is all that counts. Just don't exalt it to a godlike level, that's a pop consumer attitude. I like the complete spectrum of music and i want to master this spectrum, i'd do any kind of musical style if i had to opportunity so i can expand my horizon. It's not about success and money but art, science and spirituality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 if you want to listen to some of my music: clicky My most musical tracks are blue void,sharkbits, varuna, astral pulse & medusa. err... I can't find any of them... what is your artist name on the site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 err... I can't find any of them... what is your artist name on the site? http://www.psytracks.com/artists/10/ aquanomaly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 http://www.psytracks.com/artists/10/ aquanomaly You are aquanomaly? You have some nice tracks mister! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 http://www.psytracks.com/artists/10/ aquanomaly I am pleasantly surprised... but it doesn't even come close to IFO and/or Astral IMO. This is what I said earlier: making a good melody might be fairly easy but making a whole track that sounds interesting is a whole different ballgame. For example Varuna starts GREAT and then it goes to shit around 2:30, it becomes incredibly cheezy (reminded me in many ways of Lani's stuff). Don't mean to diss you or anything, your stuff still is better than 80% of psytrance that's being released these days (and by far superior to my own creations), it's just not 10/10 material IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 I am pleasantly surprised... but it doesn't even come close to IFO and/or Astral IMO. This is what I said earlier: making a good melody might be fairly easy but making a whole track that sounds interesting is a whole different ballgame. For example Varuna starts GREAT and then it goes to shit around 2:30, it becomes incredibly cheezy (reminded me in many ways of Lani's stuff). Don't mean to diss you or anything, your stuff still is better than 80% of psytrance that's being released these days (and by far superior to my own creations), it's just not 10/10 material IMHO. yes, Lemmi, you are right. But it has a simular set of musical rules as IFO. They just had better inspiration. To be honest, I don't really like any of my tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2kijad Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Looking through the "Top 10 albums" thread and what not, it reminded me of how often I see people putting Pleiadians' "IFO" at or near the top of various Best Of and Favorite lists. Somehow I don't get this. I only heard it first sometime earlier this year, but I think I have a good idea of the album now (it always takes me a few listens through an album to get the "feel" of the album, and know what it's about), and I find it sort of forgettable in a way. I don't think it's a bad album at all, I think it's good and I enjoy listening to it, but there's nothing about it that really stands out. I can listen to the whole album and feel like every song was more or less the same. In contrast, other artists have songs that really stand out to me. There's nothing by Pleiadians I've heard that I would remember a melody or anything from. For instance, every time I listen to it, I am more and more enthralled by Chi-A.D.'s "Virtual Spirit", and it is quickly shooting to the top of my "Favorite Albums of All Time of Any Genre" list. Astral Projection has many very recognizable and memorable melodies, as does Hallucinogen, Transwave, and others. I stick "IFO" on my iPod to listen to at work every now and then, but I never have that "I want to listen to this album specifically" feeling about it. It would be good party music, but there's nothing about it to make me sit up and take notice, or make me reach for it at home. well i think that's the best album from pleiadians. arpegiated melodic tripy goa - that's what i call that album. it's very different, different sound, diferent structure. Well it's in my top 10 too my post in "etnica - plastic" topic from this EP my favorite track is plastic, i like the way they arpegiate tongue.gif it's the same style as: pleiadians - maia. reminds me of a start of a very high trampline...and than both albums make ya fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 yes, Lemmi, you are right. But it has a simular set of musical rules as IFO. They just had better inspiration. To be honest, I don't really like any of my tracks. Quod Erat Demonstrandum It's the same with Filteria: he follows the IFO formula too but you'll never hear anyone say that his albums are classics (which doesn't mean they're BAD, just that they're not classics...). Like I said in an earlier post, this is the kind of thing that separates the good from the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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