Sideffect... Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 voila, what's the big deal, like I say if you can hate goa (or a subgenre) that much compared how much you can love it, there always be haters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I don't see why newschool goa artists are generelizing on the indian scales and the 303's so much, it's almost the same as psytrance arists focusing on the bassline these days. +1 But it's also a free choice for the artist to use this formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 @ Lemminwinks, it is true both me and Mars are involved in psynews, but we NEVER ever pushed our releases here in any way... we could easily place advertisements or pop ups for our releases here, we never did... The fact psynews gives alot of attention is probably because this forum has a certain love for "old school" goa trance... oh yes indeed, I didn't intend my comment in that way... I know very well that you've never tried to push these albums in any way, I'm just saying that it's harder for reviewers to be 100% objective when they actually know the people behind the release. The same happens with OOOD releases cause Colin is an active member of the site IMO. It is true you can not bring the golden 90's back. But many Goa Fans bitching around "Fucking new Psy-Trance, Full On sucks, we wanted Goa Trance like the old one, aso..". Now some musicians and labels tried to bring Goa Trance nearly like the old stuff and the old school fans are still not satisfieded with it. What the fuck they wanted? well what made early trance (not only goatrance) special IMO was that artists decided to make something completly new. In today's world artists seem too obsessed with following formulas (oldschool formula, full-on formula, dark trance formula, etc...). I might be wrong but the way I remember it back in the old days there was a lot more room for "freeform" creativity compared to today's stuff. Which doesn't mean that I'm not pleasantly surprised by some new releases, I'm just saying so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai-Q Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 Ah forgot to mention, he vote for the re-release of D5 1/5 too. LOL It is old school Goa Trance from 1997, but re-released on Suntrip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopie Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 @ Oopie: the hole point is that I like goa trance, with the typical goa elements, melodies, Indian scales and 303's... That's the music I fell in love with 10 years ago, that's music I still love today... That doesn't mean I don't like new stuff... But my biggest love is still that "classic" goa trance sound... I have no need in new kind of melodies, or no 303's! This sound drives me mad and makes me happy every time over and over again... Maybe I'm just weird, I don't know... Yes yes. I like goa too Joske would you believe that? It's just I've also listened to goa for quite some time now. My standards have raised really high. I almost exclusively listen to old Etnica/Pleiadians because they just have the talent for songwriting like no else. Your releases - I appreciate them for the spirit. I even love a few tracks, Red Gravity's Momentary 29 for example. Just that usually I find the melodies on your releases to be quite inoffensive, nothing that would make me gasp. Actually nothing I remember too well after the track is finished. All the huge classics of goa have clear melodic structure you can remember. I'm very excited of your comment of releasing tracks by some major old schoolers. Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Yes yes. I like goa too Joske would you believe that? It's just I've also listened to goa for quite some time now. My standards have raised really high. I almost exclusively listen to old Etnica/Pleiadians because they just have the talent for songwriting like no else. Your releases - I appreciate them for the spirit. I even love a few tracks, Red Gravity's Momentary 29 for example. Just that usually I find the melodies on your releases to be quite inoffensive, nothing that would make me gasp. Actually nothing I remember too well after the track is finished. All the huge classics of goa have clear melodic structure you can remember. I'm very excited of your comment of releasing tracks by some major old schoolers. Keep up the good work! Don't worry, I didn't take it offensive... but well, there is no artist today making music in the style of Etnica anyway... Altough I had the feeling that the Ra has the same of spiralling melodies all over the place... but of course, when we talk about melodies it is often a matter of taste... And I think that's the hardest part of REAL music freaks, your taste becomes SO picky, you almost like nothing anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 That's inevitable in any kind of music that survives past its infancy. When a style starts, of course everything is creative and unique, because it's a new genre! But once more people start making the music, it settles into a common situation where the bulk of the music made is either re-hashed or just crap, with a layer of good music on top. That's how it is in any established genre.Umm no. Goa Trance can be whatever you want it to be. If you think it has to follow a formula derived of the common element between all past Goa Trance then you will arrive at something with no creativity. If changing this formula results in something other than Goa Trance then it's unfortunate you guys make these stupid genres and it should be dead (but I think there's room for creativity yet). I agree the Suntrip albums lack creativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 but well, there is no artist today making music in the style of Etnica anyway...Nobody is asking for more in the style of Etnica but a new style; this was already done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 well what made early trance (not only goatrance) special IMO was that artists decided to make something completly new. In today's world artists seem too obsessed with following formulas (oldschool formula, full-on formula, dark trance formula, etc...). I might be wrong but the way I remember it back in the old days there was a lot more room for "freeform" creativity compared to today's stuff. Which doesn't mean that I'm not pleasantly surprised by some new releases, I'm just saying so... Agree completelly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Nobody is asking for more in the style of Etnica but a new style; this was already done! well, every artist is unique anyway... The question is... must goa trance have 303's, indian scales, and all the "typical" things or not? (which makes every artist somehow a copy of another) Also, another thing I always wondered concerning this topic... When you see at other genres (for instance Jazz, blues, whatever) it is repeated for 50 years, and it is still popular and people like it and nobody cars that it is copied, in the opposite, friends of me are very busy with Jazz and they say there are many masterpieces these days Also, in art for instance Impressionism is a style where everyone did more or less the same... and even modern painters can be impressionists... and still there are modern masterworks Why wouldn't that be possible for goa trance? New artists influenced by "old" ones, giving their own touch and sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 the problem is that there are too damn many assholes in the world that think that THEIR taste and opinion is superior to everyone else, and hence, you have haters that try to bring stuff that other people love, down. fuck em, they will die miserable one day anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 this topic is real stupid. rate some bananas instead. :wank: MASSIVE irony alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Well, they get quiet alot of reactions on the reviews, but that's about it... But I'm way to little on isratrance to have a clear view There are sometimes Suntrip topics on Isratrance... some praise, some appreciation, some weird nonsense about loving old school but disliking Suntrip since the sound is TOO old school or something... the usual mix of opinion but a lot of support too. I've noticed you and Mars haven't used Psynews to hype Suntrip at all... must be tempting, but you've let people here do it for you. A good move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I don't understand all this fuzz about suntrip... they kept goatrance alive while 5 years ago it was almost dead. Yet, they are critisesed more than a kiddie darp psy label on this forum. Maybe it's because suntrip is somehow connected to psynews, alot of people are pushing their standards too high. It was just goa back then and it's just goa now, i don't hear a difference between old & new skool imo, it's the same genre, equally genious and equally lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai-Q Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 If would Suntrip re-release some other stuff, for exsample Technossomy, Pleiadians, Transwave, Etnica, Green Nuns of the Revolution or Blue Planet Corporation, he will vote surely 1/5 for this CDs. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 no no, we still don't have enough spirals, after all this years, I'm still waiting for an album with subtle floathing spirals, cyble well done did good transwave had some, dimension 5 it's first album in the advancement sometimes, one man game had one track that is like spirals, I need more spirals :posford: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I need more spirals :posford: Check this out then! It's got spirals, but maybe not exactly of the type you're searching for... Still, worth trying IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualia Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Just my 2p and as someone who has only skimmed over this topic, oldschool goa has a different aesthetic and a different force behind the music than new psy or progressive... You can like both, but Goa (meaning the old school sound) is something different... Hypnotic... simple? Maybe, but very different and connects with something inside people very well... I always think music should be created to interface with people in mind... like... the ears are our USB. And rhythm and melody are the 2 forms a human brain can understand in music. These are used to create emotion? a natural human desire to dance... To try to exceed these, super complex music cannot be processed by human brains as effectively, so the music is pointless perhaps. What I wanted to say, with that thought in mind, is to me old goa trance, at times, is the most melodically advanced music a human mind can process effectively... and the hypnotic rhythm creates an effect not replicated by new psy... most modern goa trance even. Sorry if I sound like a stupid drunk hippy, but that is my opinion. Also, to answer Anoebis, Ray Castle talked to me of Goa trance coming from the sonic structure of Indian music... 12 sitars... tablas... eventually becoming hypnotic... the drone of the sitar... I think the hypnotic element is the key. This is why the term "trance" is used. I think as long as this stays as a foundation of the music, any other kind of melodic or rhythmic structures could be used... Just like in Jazz etc. This is coloured by my opinion also, but I do not mind forwarding his emails... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryll Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 i really don't understand the formula thing when it comes to music except when ure talking about overproduced things, like schranz, full-on, hardtek, core, breakcore, etc... and on the matter of rating on discogs, i rarely use 1/5 3 -> okay/good release 4 -> very good 5 -> stunning not rated : not worth rating, or just too lazy to rate/not yet checked thorougly hehe I have no idea who this guy is, and actually I don't care either... If he has a problem somehow it's probably his problem anyway or if we are involved he should talk, I'm not that hard to reach Altough rating Ra 1/5 by an old school lover is not really serious in my mind... but afterall it IS a matter of taste in it is impossible to make everyone happy... And well, untill today I can only say we did Suntrip by heart and the only message is to spread this sound all over the planet... I mean, 5 years ago all labels were laughing at us... Today many people see "new school" is a fact, (that doesn't mean you have to like the sound of course, because of course there are great similarities with the past), and well, I try to make everyone as happy as possible with this music just do what your heart tells you, nothing else matters no no, we still don't have enough spirals, after all this years, I'm still waiting for an album with subtle floathing spirals, cyble well done did good transwave had some, dimension 5 it's first album in the advancement sometimes, one man game had one track that is like spirals, I need more spirals :posford: try the new Suburbass on Demontage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Also, another thing I always wondered concerning this topic... When you see at other genres (for instance Jazz, blues, whatever) it is repeated for 50 years, and it is still popular and people like it and nobody cars that it is copied, in the opposite, friends of me are very busy with Jazz and they say there are many masterpieces these days Also, in art for instance Impressionism is a style where everyone did more or less the same... and even modern painters can be impressionists... and still there are modern masterworks Why wouldn't that be possible for goa trance? New artists influenced by "old" ones, giving their own touch and sound... hehe well that's just the problem with electronic music: it always has to be fresh and move on. The same events happen eventually to EVERY artform, just that most of the time the rise and decay period will last for decades, even centuries. With electronic music it all happens in just a few years. IMO it just reflects our modern technology-oriented world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryll Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 hehe well that's just the problem with electronic music: it always has to be fresh and move on. The same events happen eventually to EVERY artform, just that most of the time the rise and decay period will last for decades, even centuries. With electronic music it all happens in just a few years. IMO it just reflects our modern technology-oriented world... there's a difference between scenes and musical evolution imo nothing has to be fresh, unless it's designed to consume or it's ment to contribute to a hype or become hyped for the record: i'm allergic to scenes and hypes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 well, every artist is unique anyway... The question is... must goa trance have 303's, indian scales, and all the "typical" things or not? (which makes every artist somehow a copy of another)Using the same instruments still allows room for creativity. I am amazed listening to good oldschool albums, I am always hearing tracks with really unique elements and melodies and styles. But when I listen to this new goa trance I feel nothing unique about it, it's just got better production, other than that it's all generic sounding. When you see at other genres (for instance Jazz, blues, whatever) it is repeated for 50 years, and it is still popular and people like it and nobody cars that it is copied, in the opposite, friends of me are very busy with Jazz and they say there are many masterpieces these daysI don't listen to this crap. People can say there are masterpieces of anything but that's in their own views and most people usually have poor taste, especially so in this age. I don't understand all this fuzz about suntrip... they kept goatrance alive while 5 years ago it was almost dead.Good thing? Maybe it should have just died. I have 500 CDs of oldschool goa I don't need new ones just for the sake of keeping something alive. This is like goa trance in the hospital hooked up to machines to be kept alive. What for? If it's lost it's strength it's best to let it go rather than produce sickly music. i really don't understand the formula thing when it comes to music except when ure talking about overproduced things, like schranz, full-on, hardtek, core, breakcore, etc... And goa trance apparently. Also, to answer Anoebis, Ray Castle talked to me of Goa trance coming from the sonic structure of Indian music... 12 sitars... tablas... eventually becoming hypnotic... the drone of the sitar...Congrats. He sounds like a nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Using the same instruments still allows room for creativity. I am amazed listening to good oldschool albums, I am always hearing tracks with really unique elements and melodies and styles. But when I listen to this new goa trance I feel nothing unique about it, it's just got better production, other than that it's all generic sounding. That's a matter of opinion of course, I have even more then 500 old school goa cds, and I am amazed how many great tracks are made today (if you keep in mind how few artists make this music compared to 97!) Good thing? Maybe it should have just died. I have 500 CDs of oldschool goa I don't need new ones just for the sake of keeping something alive. This is like goa trance in the hospital hooked up to machines to be kept alive. What for? If it's lost it's strength it's best to let it go rather than produce sickly music. This prooves you have no love for the music anymore... Go to youtube... Check out the Suntrip movies of parties in 2008 with 100's of peoples smiling, and dancing like crazy... THAT is the reason why we have to keep this music alive! Maybe you are living in the past now, but some people have their "96-97" moments right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 My criteria for good music isn't just music that makes people dance like crazy or smile. There are millions of psytrance parties that accomplish that equally as well. Play something by Tiesto and you're set! For myself at least it's impossible to comprehend the music while your dancing around, you're just hearing one or two most distinct levels of the sound at best. This is why modern psytrance can get away with only having a couple layers and sounding like shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 My criteria for good music isn't just music that makes people dance like crazy or smile. There are millions of psytrance parties that accomplish that equally as well. Play something by Tiesto and you're set! For myself at least it's impossible to comprehend the music while your dancing around, you're just hearing one or two most distinct levels of the sound at best. This is why modern psytrance can get away with only having a couple layers and sounding like shit. well, so this means only "elite" music should exist? And all "dumb" or "simple" music should die? I don't like that idea... I don't LIKE that music, but I will never say it sucks, or it should die or whatever... I mean, some people will tell the same about the music you call a "masterpiece" you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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