Explaination of Goa/Psy Vs. [Regular] Trance

[Helios909 (rx7style)]

I have a friend who is versed in "electronic" music and he commonly lumps most electronic "trance" into one genre. I have been trying to explain to him what the differences are between that of normal trance [i.e. progressive, anthem, dream, hard, tech, etc...] and goa/psy and I've fallen short. Even providing clear examples of the music, ranging from that of the 90's and more modern, and he fails to recognize the difference. If you had to summarize goa/psy sounds, layering, instruments, meoldy/harmony, etc... and the like, how would you explain the differences? I mean maybe I'm biased as to the discernable differences between the sub-genres of trance, but how would you describe it? I've tried explaining on a very musically technical level pertaining to beat, scale harmonics, etc.. but that just washes over him as he isn't musically trained. He loves the music I give him, but he doesn't really understand the nuance. How would you explain the differentiable sound to someone who isn't as understanding of the sub-genres of trance? Let me know how you'd best let someone like this understand the differences. Thanks in advance.

[2kijad]

tell him that psytance has high pitch kick, different bassline, it's acidy, tripy, has absolutely different synth leads. (i'm not talking about stereomatic muhahaha)

 

well about mental difference there is also second way which i often use. tell him if he wakes up in the morning on the good mood and sees the grass in the park he maybe can feel trance but not psychedelia :D

[Lemmiwinks]

hehe good question... for me the most notable differences are:

1. the music is faster, more agressive and less "listener-friendly"

2. whereas most commercially-oriented music has only one lead that fades away and comes again, goatrance has many: it starts off with a certain lead, then changes, then changes again

3. it is music made to be listened to when high on acid/ mushrooms whereas most commercial trance has extacy/cocaine/ alcohol in mind. Thus there are a lot more "trippy" random sounds, also "hidden" sounds that don't really make sense or you don't really realize are there unless you're high. Hence the production is a lot "dirtier" (except for progressive psy which personally I don't really consider psy) as opposed to "clean" production that most club-oriented music has.

4. I guess that with recent psytrance you can also say that the rolling bassline has become a trademark as well

 

Of course, with the rise of commercial full-on these differences (except for the last) are less ans less obvious, sometimes commercial trance might actually sound more underground then some full-on...

[RTP]

Regular trance is less "confusing" ... goatrance is more chaotic and psychedelic and therefore generally less listener-friendly like Lemmi said (well put).

 

Trance has a more strict impression to me, goa has a more floaty one.

[longloststar]

Non-psy trance is garbage. Yes/No? Yes.

[Lemmiwinks]

Non-psy trance is garbage. Yes/No? Yes.

 

yes, most diehard psytrance freaks believe that but the reality is quite different... Like I said, these days I find some "non-psy" trance to be more underground and have more original ideas in it then some psytrance...

[Sideffect...]

Non-psy trance is garbage. Yes/No? Yes.

mmmmmm no,

 

each music genres has it's best, also regular trance imo

[2kijad]

some styles are not garbage but all those with no ideology or deepnes do suck a lot

 

especially minimal everything

[fosku]

especially minimal everything

You are horribly wrong

[Sideffect...]

some styles are not garbage but all those with no ideology or deepnes do suck a lot

after all this years spending time on goa parties and listening to trance I have never 1 second

gave a fuck about all the crap around it,

and I still listen to goa with pleasure , ideology my ass

[longloststar]

mmmmmm no,

 

each music genres has it's best, also regular trance imo

 

Why is it unreasonable to hold that the principle of a genré can be so flawed, that good music cannot be produced under it? Of course, there can always be catchy melodies and such, but even if you humm "baby hit me one more time" for an entire week, you can still understand that the music is shit.

[Sideffect...]

Why is it unreasonable to hold that the principle of a genré can be so flawed, that good music cannot be produced under it? Of course, there can always be catchy melodies and such, but even if you humm "baby hit me one more time" for an entire week, you can still understand that the music is shit.

the example belongs to a genre, it is pop music,

there is good pop music, I am not saying it is baby hit me one more time, but there is...

here you go

[buzzman]

double post

[buzzman]

I have friends like that as well... They can't even tell the difference between the music i make myself and Astral projection That means one of these to things:

 

1: They are def

 

2: They don't care about the music, and don't listen to anything ells than the kick/bass rythm(typical for people who only like the music when they are high, drunk and wants to dance)

 

 

But psytrance shouldn't be to hard to descripe: Wierd soundeffects, blurry riffs you can't figure out what melody/tones it is, its just good sounding noises Maybe some psychedelic melodies.. lots of layers of different elements making the soundpicture more "thick" than regular trance. It isn't build on a surtain theme that keeps on comming back in the track, but instead theres a story(normally that is) Darker heavier basslines, faster bpm (over 140) The kick is often alot more punchy

 

Progressive trance: Another genre wich tells a story instead of running on the basic melody, then break, then melody again wich ends in a qlimax. It progresses, evolves, really calm (130-140bpm) adds stuff, changes stuff, drags you into the track, without any big melodies. Instead it (normally) has lots of layers, supportive synths for the basslines, lots of percussion and... Well just a more chilled feeling than the other trance genres.

 

Darkpsy: If theres any doubt here, the idiot shouldn't be aloved to listen to trance

 

That's it for me, i don't listen much to goa trance anymore, so i won't try to descripe that

[murphythecat]

well, make your friend smoke one big joint, then put tiesto

then put hallucinogen

if he doesnt see any difference

don't talk to him anymore

[buzzman]

well, make your friend smoke one big joint, then put tiesto

then put hallucinogen

if he doesnt see any difference

don't talk to him anymore

Thats a good point

[apsyd]

-

[Helios909 (rx7style)]

Some great replies here! I should probably add that I recently made him a very "coloured" CD in which the tracklisting is as follows. I want to nurse him into the genre and haven't put too much crazy psychedelic and/or dark psy into the mix yet because sometimes people are put off by those sounds, as they are very hard to understand and discern if you're new to the sound. If I had listened to some tracks for the first time I discovered goa/psy I may have been turned off and went elsewhere with my musical tastes for those exact reasons. I mean if I had given him the album, Toidoi - Technologic (not to say this is an exceptional or standout album of the time; merely to compare a drastic style to a subgenre).... and those that own this album, like myself, they know damn well the humour in what I just stated (hehehe), I'm sure he would have recognized the difference between that and Tiesto

 

And yes like you Apsyd, since I'm in North America as well. That is exactly how non-learned listeners would refer to ALL electronic music... it's all techno. I don't even bother talking about music to those people however because it's like talking to a brick wall. It's sad, but that's how it goes. Anyway, for the purposes of this thread, I've started the introduction of this music to my friend by playing slightly less abstract tracks and instead given more eastern harmonic oriented music, and very much more melodic goa than what I consider psy. So if explanations could focus on an explanation of the more goa side of the goa/psy universe I'd really appreciate it. But of course I like reading about the whole shebang only because I've been a goa/psy freak for nearly 15 years! :posford:

 

Here's the tracklist of the CD I gave him just so you can see where I'm coming from, and what he's been influenced by. As an aside, the first track he ever listened to of goa was Ra's new 9th track, Octagon.

 

1 - Logic Bomb - The Third Revelation

2 - Cosmosis - No Such Thing [Throb Factor Five Mix]

3 - Logic Bomb - Videodrome

4 - Jaia - Brainstorm [Live Mix]

5 - Digicult - Awaken The Dream

6 - Logic Bomb - Vector

7 - Jaia - Rebirth

8 - Logic Bomb - Ansi

9 - Miranada - Mars Needs Women [lolz]

 

As you can see this is a very narrow scope, biased at that, of goa/psy but I find that at first listen, especially from someone who's used to listening to commercial trance, that they are more receptive if there are similarities to what they're used to hearing, versus something that's completely different and off the wall psychedelic. And sorry for giving him the last track... it's not really goa/psy at all but it still pounds... heheh

 

Also, *edit* I think he listened to it in is work truck, whereas I listen to music either on my ridiculously audiophile inclined stereo system (I'm not going to brag about what I have) or on my ridiculous headphone system, guilty as charged being an audiophile, so maybe that's part of the misunderstanding as well. Anyway, thanks for the replies! Look forward to more! (How about you Anoebis or Mars!)

[Lemmiwinks]

I have friends like that as well... They can't even tell the difference between the music i make myself and Astral projection That means one of these to things:

 

1: They are def

 

2: They don't care about the music, and don't listen to anything ells than the kick/bass rythm(typical for people who only like the music when they are high, drunk and wants to dance)

 

well it's all a matter of taste: either you like something and are interested by all the aspects or you don't and then it all falls under the "not interesting" genre. It's the same for me when talking about, say, jazz music: a jazz fan will start explaining me the difference between classic jazz and progressive jazz and whatnot and I'm like "WTF? it's all some random saxophone melodies anyway".

[XpandoZ]

Goa doesn't have 2 minute breaks in which the OMGEPICMELODY arises to take you higher and higher

[Kryll]

I have a friend who is versed in "electronic" music and he commonly lumps most electronic "trance" into one genre. I have been trying to explain to him what the differences are between that of normal trance [i.e. progressive, anthem, dream, hard, tech, etc...] and goa/psy and I've fallen short. Even providing clear examples of the music, ranging from that of the 90's and more modern, and he fails to recognize the difference. If you had to summarize goa/psy sounds, layering, instruments, meoldy/harmony, etc... and the like, how would you explain the differences? I mean maybe I'm biased as to the discernable differences between the sub-genres of trance, but how would you describe it? I've tried explaining on a very musically technical level pertaining to beat, scale harmonics, etc.. but that just washes over him as he isn't musically trained. He loves the music I give him, but he doesn't really understand the nuance. How would you explain the differentiable sound to someone who isn't as understanding of the sub-genres of trance? Let me know how you'd best let someone like this understand the differences. Thanks in advance.

weird thing is..

 

are you trying to explain him what kind of music u love ?

or are you trying to make a statement towards him ?

 

 

cause u have to be aware of the fact that a lack of interest or curiousity isn't really good material for opening doors with

[Lemmiwinks]

Goa doesn't have 2 minute breaks in which the OMGEPICMELODY arises to take you higher and higher

nah it USED to be like that but the trend has been dead and burried quite some time ago on the commercial trance scene...

 

 

 

weird thing is..

 

are you trying to explain him what kind of music u love ?

or are you trying to make a statement towards him ?

 

 

cause u have to be aware of the fact that a lack of interest or curiousity isn't really good material for opening doors with

 

hehe true... I used to be a goatrance "evangelist", raving to people how great this music is and how infinitly inferior all other music styles were. But most people didn't care, in the end I just learned to live with it

[Kryll]

in the end I just learned to live with it

i think i'm graduately getting used to the collective grey area (loving stuff that's too goa-ish to be acid, too technoid to be goa, too trancy to be hardcore, etc, etc.. ) hehe

[Daniël]

i think i'm graduately getting used to the collective grey area (loving stuff that's too goa-ish to be acid, too technoid to be goa, too trancy to be hardcore, etc, etc.. ) hehe

+1 appreciation

 

you earned a cookie.

[Helios909 (rx7style)]

weird thing is..

 

are you trying to explain him what kind of music u love ?

or are you trying to make a statement towards him ?

 

 

cause u have to be aware of the fact that a lack of interest or curiousity isn't really good material for opening doors with

Neither. He asked me what kind of music I listened to, I told him, then he asked to hear it. Now that he's heard it, I'm trying to explain the difference because his statement was "that's just trance". We started discussing it and I couldn't really explain the difference between all other types of trance and goa/psy in a way he understood. I'm not trying to influence him verbally - I let the music do that. =D