healium Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Ok I love psytrance and the older goa as well, but what is with the way the old school goa artists are all in the same style/sound? I have been listening to Dimension 5 - Transdimensional, Transwave - Backfire, Cosmosis - Cosmology, and Pleiadians - IFO - all these albums use the same pallet of sounds and same melodic style.. There are subtle differences yes, but overall they are in almost exactly the same melodic style, basslines, and sound pallet... IMO these albums are creatively inferior to albums like Hallucinogen - Twisted, Koxbox - Dragon Tales, Hux Flux - Cryptic Crunch, IM - The Gathering, X - Dream - Radio, and others that have a sound all there own... This lack of creativity is the case nowadays as well with the Suntrip compils - Afgin, Artifact303, Astrancer, Khetzel - there are subtle differences but none of these artists have a distinct sound such that I could hear one of their tracks and recognize it as them - I would be like "well this track could be either Artifact303 or Afgin, or maybe Astrancer"... Why would anyone bother making music that is just a creativity devoid copy of a style of music that someone else has already done? That would not be the case for Hallucinogen, Hux Flux, or Infected Mushroom - you hear a track by those artists and there's no mistaking it for anything else.. IMO artists like those are the true creative genius's of the psytrance/goatrance world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopie Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 "I have been listening to Dimension 5 - Transdimensional, Transwave - Backfire, Cosmosis - Cosmology, and Pleiadians - IFO - all these albums use the same pallet of sounds and same melodic style.." nope. "This lack of creativity is the case nowadays as well with the Suntrip compils - Afgin, Artifact303, Astrancer, Khetzel - there are subtle differences but none of these artists have a distinct sound such that I could hear one of their tracks and recognize it as them - I would be like "well this track could be either Artifact303 or Afgin, or maybe Astrancer" nope. I'm good at arguing as you can see. End of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Oh give me a fucking brake. IM creative geniouses? Have you even heard their latest stuff? Get back to your cave on isratrance pls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I answered this kind of topic already 10 times at least... To make it short: - have the old school groups the same structures somehow? Yes - Do they all use the same sounds? no What's the point in releasing goa trance today? - I love that music, simple. I would still listen to it and try to release it even if I am the last man on earth loving it - I think there IS a difference between artists (Filteria sounds the same like Ra, like Goasia or like Ka Sol?) - is music dead after 10 years? NO (classical music has been made for 300-400 years, and STILL, they use the same structures and elements and instruments and sounds) I wan't to make a deal with you, to prove it's not all the same, give me samples of 10 new school groups, and I swear I can hear immediately which group it is in most cases (the same with the old school groups btw) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Firstly, I can't say I share your observations, because IMO say Cosmosis, Pleiadians or Transwave you've mentioned are totally different, so maybe they're not the best example. Still, I'd agree there is in general a lot of similarity in the early sound simply because those where the times where it all started and what we now know as old-school goa/psy was just taking its shape, so people were simply copying the ideas they liked or were 'influenced' by them. Besides, there were no VSTi-s yet, so everybody used more or less the same gear - that's definitely a factor worth remembering. Anyway, your observation is like complaining about amen-break being used in 90% of d'n'b / jungle music... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I wan't to make a deal with you, to prove it's not all the same, give me samples of 10 new school groups, and I swear I can hear immediately which group it is in most cases (the same with the old school groups btw) Yeah, good idea. And I'm sure it would be much harder with darkpsy, progressive & full-on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 "I have been listening to Dimension 5 - Transdimensional, Transwave - Backfire, Cosmosis - Cosmology, and Pleiadians - IFO - all these albums use the same pallet of sounds and same melodic style.." nope. "This lack of creativity is the case nowadays as well with the Suntrip compils - Afgin, Artifact303, Astrancer, Khetzel - there are subtle differences but none of these artists have a distinct sound such that I could hear one of their tracks and recognize it as them - I would be like "well this track could be either Artifact303 or Afgin, or maybe Astrancer" nope. I'm good at arguing as you can see. End of discussion. I wonder what you guy would date to say on a similar topic about FullOn. I can clearly recognize respective Goatrance groups styles, but no way I can with 90% of FUllono artists. And I'm quite used to listening to Psytrance as you can guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Ok I love psytrance and the older goa as well, but what is with the way the old school goa artists are all in the same style/sound? I have been listening to Dimension 5 - Transdimensional, Transwave - Backfire, Cosmosis - Cosmology, and Pleiadians - IFO - all these albums use the same pallet of sounds and same melodic style.. There are subtle differences yes, but overall they are in almost exactly the same melodic style, basslines, and sound pallet... IMO these albums are creatively inferior to albums like Hallucinogen - Twisted, Koxbox - Dragon Tales, Hux Flux - Cryptic Crunch, IM - The Gathering, X - Dream - Radio, and others that have a sound all there own... This lack of creativity is the case nowadays as well with the Suntrip compils - Afgin, Artifact303, Astrancer, Khetzel - there are subtle differences but none of these artists have a distinct sound such that I could hear one of their tracks and recognize it as them - I would be like "well this track could be either Artifact303 or Afgin, or maybe Astrancer"... Why would anyone bother making music that is just a creativity devoid copy of a style of music that someone else has already done? That would not be the case for Hallucinogen, Hux Flux, or Infected Mushroom - you hear a track by those artists and there's no mistaking it for anything else.. IMO artists like those are the true creative genius's of the psytrance/goatrance world... yes and no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreation7 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Don't agree, sorry. You can't make a judgement like that based on 4 albums.....try comparing the tracks on those albums to early stuff by GNOR, Slinky Wizard, Prana, Doof, or Etnica (for example) and see if all the artists sound the same. Sure they use a lot of the same elements, but as has been said previously by antic, DnB/Jungle wouldn't be what it is without the amen break, likewise goa wouldn't be goa without certain sounds (it would just be trance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Ok I love psytrance and the older goa as well, but what is with the way the old school goa artists are all in the same style/sound? I have been listening to Dimension 5 - Transdimensional, Transwave - Backfire, Cosmosis - Cosmology, and Pleiadians - IFO - all these albums use the same pallet of sounds and same melodic style.. There are subtle differences yes, but overall they are in almost exactly the same melodic style, basslines, and sound pallet... IMO these albums are creatively inferior to albums like Hallucinogen - Twisted, Koxbox - Dragon Tales, Hux Flux - Cryptic Crunch, IM - The Gathering, X - Dream - Radio, and others that have a sound all there own... I do feel the same at least to an extent. I mean, I don't listen to that much goa (for these reasons), but still. It doesn't matter that much though because the market hasn't been flooded with the stuff as it is the case with full on music now. And I even like the "this sounds similar in a way"-syndrome, at least when it's not overused... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karan129 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Dimension 5 - Transdimensional, Transwave - Backfire, Cosmosis - Cosmology, and Pleiadians - IFOAll these albums are the same? I guess you need to hear them again, how can cosmosis' acidic goa be the same as Pleidians' crazy psychedelia be the same as Dimension 5's uplifting melodies be the same as the smooth goa vibes of Backfire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Oh give me a fucking brake. IM creative geniouses? Have you even heard their latest stuff? Get back to your cave on isratrance pls.Haha, IM uber creative? What they did is just mixed most of widely recognised goa/psy sound tricks together and sharpened it a bit, nothing genious in that Skilfull - yes, genious - no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goa Bill Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Oh give me a fucking brake. IM creative geniouses? Have you even heard their latest stuff? Get back to your cave on isratrance pls. I think you need to find some time to hear their first 3 albums again and than come back and talking silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unstable Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 There is lots of variance within oldschool goa. Try listening to the other albums by Dimension 5 (including To Sirus & Magik Universe) to see how their sound changed from Transdimensional. Try comparing Etnica's early work with Pleiadians, way different. Transwave's "Backfire" is a great album but all those tracks were released in 1996-1997. There are many artists with other different sounds... Muses Rapt, Astral Projection, Chi-A.D., Sandman, etc etc etc etc etc. "Newschool goa" is largely people copying the oldschool style so I'll agree that lacks creativity. Changing the structure a lot would result in... not goa.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I think you need to find some time to hear their first 3 albums again and than come back and talking silly.No no no, you got me wrong. I'm not talking about their old stuff. I'm talking about their new stuff, as the thread starter said something about IM being so great compared to nowaday artists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 All these albums are the same? I guess you need to hear them again, how can cosmosis' acidic goa be the same as Pleidians' crazy psychedelia be the same as Dimension 5's uplifting melodies be the same as the smooth goa vibes of Backfire? I have to agree. Pleiadians the same with D5? Cosmosis the same with Transwave? Of course many tracks/albums have similarities, but they all had their unique style and you can tell whose track is it by listening to a small sample. Unlike Full On, Darkpsy and Prog where most artists sound the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travbrad1001 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 It sounds to me like you simply don't like goatrance, which is fine. When you don't like a genre of music, all music from that genre tends to sound the same. Yes, they do all have similarities (otherwise it wouldn't be goa), but there are also some big differences. I think full-on artists are actually harder to tell apart than goa. There are a few that stand out, but 90% of it is really generic. P.S. Do you think Infected Mushroom would have existed without goa? Have you heard their new music? It doesn't sound like it was made by "geniuses" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veracohr Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Conformity is what enables us to call it goa, rather than "what the fuck is this?" If it's classified, there will inevitably be similar-sounding artists. You can still be creative while following general guidelines that define a genre. We still continue to see good rock and metal bands, and there is a lot more of them, and they use a much more rigid sound palette, so obviously conformity doesn't preclude creativity. Only Frank Zappa escapes conformity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Agree. It's probably the case that the longer time goes by, the more the output of earlier artists will sound similarly. Conformity is what ultimately defines a genre, and relatively few are willing or able to stray from the middle and make non-conformist music. That said, if you hear what truly non-conformist music sounds like, it doesn't really sound much like music at all. Creativity and conformity are entirely relative terms. Cryptic Crunch was interesting for its time. Meanwhile, knowing your taste and habits a bit, I think you should check out and other Music Concrete, if you haven't already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeros Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Actually in my opinion its exactly goa artists (excluding half the generic copy-cat stuff from 96-99 maybe) that are more individual and unique sounding from artist to artist than anything else comming out of the psychedelic trance/dance sound. There is just one rule, which is: USE MELODIES, and I find that each artist does that differently and uniquely so long as they are still writing melodies. Techno and much of psytrance today can be figured out in an almost mathematical way when they adhere to just rubber bassline and kick for 9 minutes. The goa sound though, is more of a vibe, it fills the air and makes everything around it resonate with that sound. Elementally there is always a lead melody, a bassline rythm, background synths, pads, and an fx/verb layer built around events where the sound evolves. Its my opinion though that the most maximal way you can progress something and make it evolve in an everflowing and relentless way is with melodies... but that is almost a metaphysical analysis, yes it is true that they all "use melodies", so that may be what is sounding the same to you, however some of the artists you mentioned are wildly different from eachother - I could never mistake maximal 148bpm pleiadians to groovier cosmosis stuff, same for the rest of the artists. As for the newschool sound I don't understand this "they are just copying oldschool" kind of attitude, since the majority of the time thats not true at all. The story is continuing with the technology and mindsets we have available to us today, and some are choosing to write the music that inspired them. At least, it seems to be headed that way, we can all agree that the new stuff appearing today especially around suntrip is really original stuff that did not and could not have existed in the goa day a decade ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melancholyman Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 IM are creative geniuses, don't come here and say otherwise. That part I agree on, the rest...dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarbiter Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Conformity is what enables us to call it goa, rather than "what the fuck is this?" If it's classified, there will inevitably be similar-sounding artists. You can still be creative while following general guidelines that define a genre. We still continue to see good rock and metal bands, and there is a lot more of them, and they use a much more rigid sound palette, so obviously conformity doesn't preclude creativity. Only Frank Zappa escapes conformity. Could you please recomend some music in the non conformist genre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronodevir Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Who gives a fuck, listen to the climax of Mahdeva from Astral Projection...and THEN come back to this thread and start talking. But yes, new school psy/goa has been drastically stupefied, reduced to nothing but a new rythmy thing for people who started listening to music 2 years ago can enjoy. Most of it has to do with the emergence of software like FLStudio or Cubase which made it extremely easy to make music, and everyone and their brother got their hands on it and started throwing a 303 sound on the bass, and an fm sound on the lead with a 4/4 beat and called it psy... Also, the people everyone has mentioned for the most part, get paid to make music, so they will make what everyone likes, if you want to listen to some unique stuff , that is for the most part, original, you need to listen to some of the unknowns [generally speaking] out there, listen to the Cosmic Flower compilation, most of the artist on it have slews of other songs, i have a few songs on CF, but i have tons more in other places. Most of the time those unknowns don't get paid to make music, then genuinely enjoy it and enjoying making it, so they are more inclined to experiment and do stuff that a paid artist wouldn't day do... As for IM, sorry, guitars and psy do not ever ever need to be in the same piece of music. Never. IM has one good song...one. Neverever Land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UX-Dreamweaver Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 As for IM, sorry, guitars and psy do not ever ever need to be in the same piece of music. Never. IM has one good song...one. Neverever LandI liked Devil and Where is S? as well, but I wouldn't say they were overly creative at all other than a couple measly tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veracohr Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Could you please recomend some music in the non conformist genre? That was my point. A piece of music must have some general similarities to other pieces of music for us to consider it part of a particular genre. Everything we consider "goa" has similarities to one degree or another, everything we consider "classical" has similarities, etc. They conform to an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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