The cancers of todays Psy scene

[NEMO.BOFH]

I was tripping on 2cb last weekend... I listened to The nommos, psykovsky and Derango(special thanks to a certain member ) and it was the most psychedelic experience i've had in a looong time... We put on something ells, tried many different types of psy, but ended back up with the dark stuff... Everything ells just didn't seem to blow in your head and fuck with your mind like the mentioned artists did... We disgussed this before, and NO ONE could come up with a reasonable explanation on what PSYCHEDELIC music is... It's up to each person, wich music gives you the most psychedelic experience

The law of tripping, what you start out listening to, will always be the preference of the rest of the trip, in most cases. Anyways, if we are going to talk like that, then I will say that Plastikman is Psytrance, its really psychedelic when I am taking acid. Honestly! Listen to yourself man. Bob Marley is VERY psychedelic Weak points there from you imo!

[buzzman]

Just look at people on this forum that are asking for Dark recommendations, they want it to sound scary, horror movie samples, macabre... Yeah, thats dark.. and a bit EMO

 

A good example of how Dark Psy would sound is Darshan - Awakening.... now THAT is the proper stuff!

WRONG!

 

Darkpsy is mainly pretty hillarious if you ask me, at least when you are on psychedelics The wierd way they stop and "glitch" the WHOLE track, not just a single sound and the brutal startups, the pictures i get of a old growly man, the sample use and totally wierd things they say like : A 4 beat break with a guy screaming: I LOVE PANCAKES, or a native american making wierd sounds, or take The nommos album for example, that really made me laugh hard! I also tend to get pictures of a mad old man, yelling the noises(what you postford groupies call psyfarts) and pointing fingers while stomping around to the lovely deep 150bpm atmosphere(sounds far out, but it happens every time ) Darkpsy is for laughing and collercoasting IMO

[buzzman]

The law of tripping, what you start out listening to, will always be the preference of the rest of the trip, in most cases. Anyways, if we are going to talk like that, then I will say that Plastikman is Psytrance, its really psychedelic when I am taking acid. Honestly! Listen to yourself man. Bob Marley is VERY psychedelic Weak points there from you imo!

Haha, I don't know how to disguss this further with you, you are VERY annoying right now

 

But i don't really know exactly what psychedelic is, but if i have to answer, then no psytrance is really psychedelic to me when im not high, i just like the feeling it gives me... The escape from reality into my own thoughts... Into the universe of the music... Slightly different feeling i get from darkpsy, but basically the same

[Melancholyman]

The scene today is dull and boring. Lacks creativity and artistic sense. I realized this more thane ever when I found an old mp3 player of mine, I took it to the gym and on it were ALOT of old psytrance tracks. What came to mind was how different psytrance acts sounded back then. You could really tell an artist from one other, it was full of innovation, new ideas. Something in the earlier psy have this feel of wanting to say something, you can hear the joy and thoughtfulness the artists had when creating the music. I never hear that in music released nowdays except a few exeptions. That is why I only talk and write about downtempo these days, cause that genre (if it's not psytrance, wich I don't think it is, but it's sure psychedelic) is really flourishing. I think the psyscene is dead, only in my own subjective sense, the best ideas has already been used, and that initial burst of energy (as the initial stage of falling in love) has faded out. Sure there will be good psy produced in the future, but I believe it will have less soul. Sadly, soul is the most essential part in music for me. Think of Juno Reactor - Pistolero, that track always puts a smile on my face, and I remember the good old days...

 

Now ofc I haven't been in the scene as long as many other here, and some old stuff to me might be new stuff to others, but ....you get the point...

[NEMO.BOFH]

Then dont continue the discussion. If you can not take a good old battle

 

Anyways, One question, is Trentemoller Psychedelic to you? For me it is! Does that make Trentemoller, Minimal Psy? Or have you heard of Hardfloor, is that Psychedelic to you!? FoR ME ITS FUCKING psychedelic, but it is not Psy Acid. Have you heard old Acid House, while taking acid?! Was that Psychedelic for the people back in the days?! SURE AS HELL IT WAS! (I know, I lived it), Do we call that Acid House Psy?! NO!

 

So, my point is: Dark Psy, yes can be psychedelic to ANYONE, but it has nothing to do with the roots of Psytrance (it has the same bassline structure, but so does many other genres, including plain T R A N C E), just as much as the new Ticon has to do with Psytrance. I mean, people will prolly kill me for saying the above line about Ticon, but its the harsh truth.

 

Yes, they are artists that did something else, but to associate it with the GENRE PSY TRANCE, is W R O N G.

 

Im gonna make some DeathMetal Psy now.

[Melancholyman]

LOL I just figured, Pistolero might not even be psytrance, then I'm truly lost :drama:

[Ormion]

Then dont continue the discussion. If you can not take a good old battle

 

Anyways, One question, is Trentemoller Psychedelic to you? For me it is! Does that make Trentemoller, Minimal Psy? Or have you heard of Hardfloor, is that Psychedelic to you!? FoR ME ITS FUCKING psychedelic, but it is not Psy Acid. Have you heard old Acid House, while taking acid?! Was that Psychedelic for the people back in the days?! SURE AS HELL IT WAS! (I know, I lived it), Do we call that Acid House Psy?! NO!

 

So, my point is: Dark Psy, yes can be psychedelic to ANYONE, but it has nothing to do with the roots of Psytrance, just as much as the new Ticon has to do with Psytrance. I mean, people will prolly kill me for saying the above line about Ticon, but its the harsh truth.

 

Yes, they are artists that did something else, but to associate it with the GENRE PSY TRANCE, is W R O N G.

 

Im gonna make some DeathMetal Psy now.

This is where we disagree.

 

Darkpsy didn't appear from nowhere. It evolved from psytrance, even from Goa.

 

At first it was Parasense and Xenomorph who were for me the godfathers of darkpsy. But even Parasense were influenced by earlier darkpsy. Even by Absolum's Wild or Delta.

Then this early darkpsy staring to become a bit more complicated and furious. Parvati's First Step was one of the first comps of 100% darkpsy.

In the years that come darkpsy changed, but this is happening with any music.

People who are into darkpsy since its beginning know that darkpsy came from psytrance, it didn't appear from nowhere.

The same with Ticon and Son Kite (I still considered them as psy).

Unlike D-Nox & Beckers for example who never were a part of the psy scene, there just came in the scene from somewhere else.

[buzzman]

Then dont continue the discussion. If you can not take a good old battle

 

Anyways, One question, is Trentemoller Psychedelic to you? For me it is! Does that make Trentemoller, Minimal Psy? Or have you heard of Hardfloor, is that Psychedelic to you!? FoR ME ITS FUCKING psychedelic, but it is not Psy Acid. Have you heard old Acid House, while taking acid?! Was that Psychedelic for the people back in the days?! SURE AS HELL IT WAS! (I know, I lived it), Do we call that Acid House Psy?! NO!

 

So, my point is: Dark Psy, yes can be psychedelic to ANYONE, but it has nothing to do with the roots of Psytrance (it has the same bassline structure, but so does many other genres, including plain T R A N C E), just as much as the new Ticon has to do with Psytrance. I mean, people will prolly kill me for saying the above line about Ticon, but its the harsh truth.

 

Yes, they are artists that did something else, but to associate it with the GENRE PSY TRANCE, is W R O N G.

 

Im gonna make some DeathMetal Psy now.

Like i said, i don't know what psychedelic is anymore But no, i wouldn't consitter trentemøller for being psychedelic, not when sober.. Maybe after a joint, but then again, we are back to darkpsy

 

Dark psytrance.. It's in the fucking name of the genre man darkpsy! Some artists actually makes very intelligent and highly creative music... Ofcourse if it's highko, or other stuff like that i understand your statement, but theres brilliant psychedelic trance music amongst the dark genre

[NEMO.BOFH]

Ok, I am going to give up now. Call it whatever you want. I am going to say:

 

DarkPsy is the Cancer of todays Psytrance, and that is my final statement

[Malevol3nt]

i still think it's money tho. money mixed with a bit of fame. that's it. not genres, but money.

[Ormion]

i still think it's money tho. money mixed with a bit of fame. that's it. not genres, but money.

No one disagrees with that.

 

And I'm gonna say two more, not so musically wise.

 

Artists photos in the covers

 

Artists treated like pop stars

[Malevol3nt]

No one disagrees with that.

I think it's the root of all problems in my humble opinion. Why would anyone want to copy other peoples style or create their own based on a 'popular formula' unless they wanted to get in the music business purely for the money or the "fame" (which explains the boom of artists in Israel).

 

I'm not a genre fascist tho. There's pretty much gold in every genre, altho maybe I can't grasp what full-on really represents as a subgenre. As for dark psy, psykovsky is the one I found out about first, a really great talent and he makes the genre shine. I can't really blame one genre of music for killing another (as in becoming more popular). If one genre becomes more popular then the other, and artists start abandoning their original genre for the more popular one, it's their choice sure. But if they do it solely to promote their music to a wider population no matter what that music sounds like, then I think this is called "forced cross-gendre switch" (Holy shit what a tittle ).

 

Blame the artists for selling out, don't blame genres. Don't blame the listeners either, it's their choice to listen what they want to listen to. If an artist switches to another genre, but does so because he is truly interested in another genre and not just to make his name more popular, then I respect that. I guess thats what Posford did, but I'm kind of 50/50 about liking/not liking his style (altho that's more of a personal taste then anything else).

[Rotwang]

Sorry, Nemo, I know you don't want this discussion to continue, but I can't let this stuff pass without comment.

 

 

Charts only tell you how much something sells, if Darkpsy sells more does not mean that the oldschoolers or the psytrance people that used to be have adapted, it also COULD MEAN that a whole new scene has spawned from the deep dark underground of the swamp... scum! (Pun intended)

Way to miss the point. Darkpsy doesn't sell more. In fact if you actually look at psyshop's chart like Ormion suggested you'll find very little darkpsy. Quite how anybody can claim that a subgenre which makes up a tiny fraction of psytrance sales compared to, say, progressive is killing the scene is beyond me.

 

 

New sound, new crowd, the old ones out, the new ones in. [...] none of the old sceners seem to have adapted either.

Uh huh. Like that noob Goa Gil. I bet he never even heard of psytrance before 2006.

 

 

Dark Psy [...] has nothing to do with the roots of Psytrance (it has the same bassline structure, but so does many other genres, including plain T R A N C E)

What utter rubbish. I don't know much about the history of psytrance, but it's nonetheless obvious to my ears that darkpsy has evolved continuously from old psytrance. Listen to this, by old-school favourites Etnica, and try telling me that doesn't sound like darkpsy. Listen to this by The Nommos and try telling me that you can't see how that's a natural progression from old-school psytrance.

 

And it works both ways too - lots of modern non-dark psytrance incorporates dark influences. You gave a good review to OOOD's Durka Durka recently - listen to the last 20 seconds of that and try telling me that doesn't sound like it could have come straight off a darkpsy track.

 

 

Its a CHANGE of the genre, which took it further away from PSYCEDELIC than it has ever been.

Much of it sounds pretty damn psychedelic to me. Perhaps you just don't get it?

 

 

Please Call it Corpse Trance or Deadmans Emo Shranz

Where do people get this idea that darkpsy is all morbid emo stuff? A few artists use horror samples and themes, but loads don't. What the hell does the average Nommos or Kindzadza or Alien Mental track have to do with corpses or emo?

 

 

It killed GOOD psy and made a new scene, Dark Psy Scene.

My experience of the darkpsy scene is that it has a lot more in common with how people describe the early days of psytrance than any other scene at the moment. Have you ever been to a darkpsy festival? Look at this photo I took last year:

 

 

and compare it to this photo from a Poona beach party in 1994:

 

 

Can you tell the difference? That's right - the first photo is full of shanti people partying to trance, and the second is full of shanti people partying to trance, some of whom have since undoubtedly turned into grumpy old gits who like to moan about how much better it was when shanti people used to party to trance, and how darkpsy killed that.

 

Seriously, this darkpsy-bashing stuff is beyond old, and beyond lame. If you're pissed off because your rose-tinted specs are chafing, find a new scapegoat.

[Ormion]

Of course I agree 100% with Rotwang.

 

Especially in this

 

Where do people get this idea that darkpsy is all morbid emo stuff? A few artists use horror samples and themes, but loads don't. What the hell does the average Nommos or Kindzadza or Alien Mental track have to do with corpses or emo?

Darkpsy artists who used demonic, satanistic and other emo stuff in their music is like the 10%. The other 90% is about space, technology or ritual stuff.

Plus I personally don't see something wrong with darkness or a bit of evilness as long is not emo.

Anybody remember Schizoeffective? It has a skull in the cover! The Thing track was filled with cliche samples like baby crying etc. No one seems to say something bad about that.

I'm nost bashing Schizoeffective, I personally love it! But let's see the whole picture.

Yes artist with names like Bloodpsy or Satan Dance are emo, but that's the vast minority not the opposite.

 

 

My experience of the darkpsy scene is that it has a lot more in common with how people describe the early days of psytrance than any other scene at the moment. Have you ever been to a darkpsy festival? Look at this photo I took last year:

 

Can you tell the difference? That's right - the first photo is full of shanti people partying to trance, and the second is full of shanti people partying to trance, some of whom have since undoubtedly turned into grumpy old gits who like to moan about how much better it was when shanti people used to party to trance, and how darkpsy killed that.

+1 To that

I have to say that from all the scenes today darkpsy is the only one together with Goa that still has the old hippie attitude spirit.

You know the shandu stuff, the ohm words etc. Is this old fashioned? Possibly, but still has it.

Unlike Full On or Prog parties that look more and more like the nth typical neighbour party.

 

I even believe that the day that we have to wear shirts to get in a club to listen our favorite artist is pretty close,

[NEMO.BOFH]

edit. well , I do not agree with that, is there something wrong with me having my thoughts about psy trance and what it should sound like? Taste is like an ass, it has two sides, yours is one, mine is the other. Mine is smooth, yours is shaven and has zits. (yes, its not supposed to offend, just to make it more visual)

 

And rotwang, you take it way too personal hahahaha

 

Dark Psy, Still for me, whatever you say, THE cancer to psytrance.

 

edit2: you still also, like the others, missed my point about Psytrance compared to stuff like Ticon or D-Nox, and your pictures proved it

[Rotwang]

edit. well , I do not agree with that, is there something wrong with me having my thoughts about psy trance and what it should sound like?

Of course not. Nor is there anything wrong with me pointing out when your thoughts are at huge odds with the actual facts of the matter.

 

Taste is like an ass, it has two sides, yours is one, mine is the other. Mine is smooth, yours is shaven and has zits. (yes, its not supposed to offend,

Really? Sure seems like it was.

 

And rotwang, you take it way too personal hahahaha

How the hell do you expect me to take it when you describe darkpsy listeners as "scum"? You're welcome to have your own taste, but you could try and share it in a less insulting manner.

 

edit2: you still also, like the others, missed my point about Psytrance compared to stuff like Ticon or D-Nox, and your pictures proved it

How so? If your point was that Ticon and D-Nox have very little in common with psytrance then I agree with you (and since those artists sell way more than big-name darkpsy artists, I can't for the life of me see how you think this fact somehow supports your accusations that darkpsy is killing the scene). What do my pictures have to do with that?

[Sideffect...]

Sorry, Nemo, I know you don't want this discussion to continue, but I can't let this stuff pass without comment.

 

 

 

 

Way to miss the point. Darkpsy doesn't sell more. In fact if you actually look at psyshop's chart like Ormion suggested you'll find very little darkpsy. Quite how anybody can claim that a subgenre which makes up a tiny fraction of psytrance sales compared to, say, progressive is killing the scene is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

Uh huh. Like that noob Goa Gil. I bet he never even heard of psytrance before 2006.

 

 

 

 

What utter rubbish. I don't know much about the history of psytrance, but it's nonetheless obvious from my ears that darkpsy has evolved continuously from old psytrance. Listen to this, by old-school favourites Etnica, and try telling me that doesn't sound like darkpsy. Listen to this by The Nommos and try telling me that you can't see how that's a natural progression from old-school psytrance.

 

And it works both ways too - lots of modern non-dark psytrance incorporates dark influences. You gave a good review to OOOD's Durka Durka recently - listen to the last 20 seconds of that and try telling me that doesn't sound like it could have come straight off a darkpsy track.

 

 

 

 

Much of it sounds pretty damn psychedelic to me. Perhaps you just don't get it?

 

 

 

 

Where do people get this idea that darkpsy is all morbid emo stuff? A few artists use horror samples and themes, but loads don't. What the hell does the average Nommos or Kindzadza or Alien Mental track have to do with corpses or emo?

 

 

 

 

My experience of the darkpsy scene is that it has a lot more in common with how people describe the early days of psytrance than any other scene at the moment. Have you ever been to a darkpsy festival? Look at this photo I took last year:

 

 

and compare it to this photo from a Poona beach party in 1994:

 

 

Can you tell the difference? That's right - the first photo is full of shanti people partying to trance, and the second is full of shanti people partying to trance, some of whom have since undoubtedly turned into grumpy old gits who like to moan about how much better it was when shanti people used to party to trance, and how darkpsy killed that.

 

Seriously, this darkpsy-bashing stuff is beyond old, and beyond lame. If you're pissed off because your rose-tinted specs are chafing, find a new scapegoat.

I agree in the dark music when it comes to music that it is often more influenced by goatrance,

more psychedelic trance mostly, Morning fullon has almost none of these, on baseline totally not...

 

But when it comes to parties, here in Belgium they are no't that pleasant, the atmosphere is beneath 0...

 

I never go to dark parties if I go to a psytrance party...

[Rotwang]

didn't read the entire topic but is that statement a good thing or bad thing ?

Which statement?

[Sideffect...]

Which statement?

changed my post, read above, had it wrong, it's already late here for a working

 

ps: damn your fast

[Ormion]

Kind off topic but...

 

Do you know what's the most cliche phrase today?

 

Psytrance is dead.

 

Ok then when was alive?

I've read this sentence like a million times. Psytrance died, psytrance sucks today, psytrance flopped etc.

But before someone say this phrase again must say when psytrance was alive for him.

I can't understand it even when the person who claims it is a Goa fan only. I mean today there's more Goa than the last 7 years.

 

I may bitched about the problems of todays scene, but I never believed that Psytrance died.

 

 

So a question to all who once said that Psytrance is dead.

 

When Psytrance was alive for you?

 

Nemo? Pavel? Anyone else?

[Rotwang]

ps: damn your fast

Thanks. I put it down to having no life.

[Melancholyman]

So a question to all who once said that Psytrance is dead.

 

When Psytrance was alive for you?

 

Nemo? Pavel? Anyone else?

 

I get the point, maybe its' more that "I am dead to psytrance" rather than the opposite. Though I still hold my statement of psy being more innovative and diverse earlier, as say for me 2004 and earlier, after that I haven't got any acts that really blew my mind. I'm still listening to alot of pre 2004/05, but new stuff I almost never want to go back to after hearing it out a couple of times. There are as I said, exceptions ofc.

[Basilisk]

People who are into darkpsy since its beginning know that darkpsy came from psytrance, it didn't appear from nowhere.

Yes, exactly. What I think some people fail to understand is that there is a lot of amateur darkpsy out there... but also some very serious psychedelic music. There is a signal-to-noise problem at work here: for all the Parvati, Procs, Derango, CPC, and Ghreg On Earth out there, you have an incredible number of talentless kids making random aggressive noises without any intelligence whatsoever. All that stuff gives "darkpsy" (a stupid term) a bad name. Same with full-on, right? There is a lot of cheesy garbage out there but also some real gems. Sort of like all the mindlessly derivative minimal techno you might hear... or pointless new school Goa tributes... and so on. The main difference here is that "darkpsy" is very much a participatory musical subculture; the people that like it are more likely to get into producing it than I have observed with most other sub-variants of psytrance. And then you have a gazillion shoddy labels to release their maladaptive offerings... but don't for a second think that old school Goa trance didn't face this exact same problem once upon a time. There is no shortage of pointless, intellectually vapid old school out there--it is just that most of us forget about it because it is no longer all around us. Darkpsy is everywhere... and for that reason I think it has elicited more of a revulsion from many posters here. Hey, I'm not asking anyone to like the stuff--I'm just pointing out that there are other factors here that go way beyond personal preference.

[amphiton]

... you have an incredible number of talentless kids making random aggressive noises without any intelligence whatsoever. All that stuff gives "darkpsy" (a stupid term) a bad name. Same with full-on, right? There is a lot of cheesy garbage out there but also some real gems. Sort of like all the mindlessly derivative minimal techno you might hear... or pointless new school Goa tributes... and so on.

Just what I said and I completely agree with the rest.

[Rotwang]

BTW:

 

Just write anything that you think has ruined or still ruining the scene musically-wise.

 

Note: It's not a war thread! Just a personal opinion one.

 

My thoughts:

 

Full On Basslines

I like full on basslines. Especially when they are aggressive and furious. But when 90% of the new tracks a have a full on bass then it's a problem.

+1

 

Minimalism

How the most colorful, intense, complex dance genre has become such minimal-styled I will never understand. Shame.

I don't hate minimal. It's just not my taste. But everything leans towards minimalism. Like it's the future of our scene. Whilst over-the-top psy is regarded as a b-grade music, music for the few.

+1

 

House, Progressive Techno, Tech House etc. influences

Why?

+1

 

No melodies in Darkpsy

I love Darkpsy. But why most Darkpsy artists don't use melodies? It's like a cliche?

+0. I don't think that darkpsy and melody generally mix - or maybe they can, but it's real hard to pull off, and I can't think of many exceptions (though KDD's Shivaya Voda springs to mind).

 

Ethno-cliches in ambient

We have enough, don't you think? The same with all these dub stuff. Where's the spacey psybient? The trancey melodies? Why everything must sound so earthly today?

+1

 

Extreme bpm's

150 is good, 160 is good, 200 not like. The same with 120 bpm dance tracks. No thanks!

+1

 

Obsession with Goa

And this comes from THE Goa fan. I love Goa more than anything, but Psy is more than that.

+1

 

Obsession with Simon

Serioulsy, this is getting ridiculous.

+1

 

Vocoding samples

Too many of them and most of them annoying as hell. Especially in cheesy full on tracks. Plus anything ''I love you'' clubby, shitty sample.

Plur has nothing to do with that.

+1

 

No liquid sounds

Everything sounds so ''rough'' today. Why?

I don't know what you mean. Do you have some examples to hand?