The cancers of todays Psy scene

[Drosophila]

Nothing really matters nowadays when Tetrahedron is finally about to be released.

care to elaborate?!

 

 

 

 

a magic bullet?!

[Colin OOOD]

I don't know whether this was directed at me, but in case it was I'll say a few words in my defence: I haven't intentionally dissed stuff which isn't darkpsy, nor did I ever mean to suggest that it's "the only one that has carried on the true lineage from Goa trance"; I agree that they all have (in fact I like lots of stuff which isn't darkpsy, much like all the darkpsy listeners on this forum AFAIK). It's just that when somebody accuses the music I like of killing the scene, and calls people who share my taste "scum", I feel like I should defend it, especially when that person backs up their claim with statements that are demonstrably false.

It wasn't; the 'true lineage' part was mainly inspired by a post I read on Isra to that effect. I have noticed the 'divide and diss' attitude a little on Psynews though, from certain quarters.

 

I don't entirely agree with this - when a genre evolves in different directions it's natural that some people will like some directions more than others, and I think it's good that there exist parties and festivals which cater just for those people who like dark or progressive or minimal or whatever best. "Division" needn't mean "hostility".

By all means use the labels; they help us know what each other is talking about and can facilitate understanding and communication. But using them to divide us into - for example - 'dark psy lovers' and 'people whose music taste I respect' is not something that makes me feel warm fuzzies. And I'm not so sure that single-sub-sub-genre events are such a good thing either; things have become so specialised so that in some places its very difficult for promoters to put on events in their chosen pigeonhole; even with a single-stage/room event, widening the scope of the music played would bring in more people, expose people to more different music which they might well like, remind partygoers what musical progression sounds like and stop the scene from falling up its own arse. I'm very idealistic, I know.

 

I just mastered the next Silent Horror EP. It's really bloody good.

[amphiton]

I also can't stand music-specified parties and go to sleep early. As a part of a promo group, we always have different styles - prog / dark prog / some faster psytrance / deep night stuff / forest trance and goa in the morning followed by suomi. You can't put everything in, of course, but diversity is needed.

[Padmapani]

I think you misunderstood me here. I don't have anything against Goa. Actually Goa is my all time favorite style. Always was, is and will be. But I don't agree with the obsession about Goa, you know that it's not Goa it's not good. Of course that's me. If someone likes only Goa and nothing more is ok, but from my point of view there's more than that. Including the real Goa evolution which I still search.

i did understand and agree with you, but was trying to funnily prove your point by mimicking the ingorant "obsessed with goa" guy

[stupidfatugly]

care to elaborate?!

 

 

 

 

a magic bullet?!

http://www.psynews.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=54165

[Novacron]

Not entirely. New analog manufacturers pop up from time to time.

 

http://www.davesmithinstruments.com

http://www.future-retro.com/

http://www.doepfer.de/

http://www.vermona.com/index.php?en_news

http://www.synthtech.com/

http://www.synthesizers.com/index.html

http://www.blacet.com/

http://www.modcan.com/

http://www.paia.com/

http://www.analoguesystems.co.uk/index2.htm

http://www.moogmusic.com/

http://www.jomox.com

 

And more...

Wow didn't even know about half of those. Thanks for proving me wrong! Cheers

[Drosophila]

http://www.psynews.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=54165

Ahh that one

 

thanks!

[yohankiwi]

Close mindedness is IMO the biggest cancer of today's scene. I personally welcome all of the new outings from psy trance artists that use certain elements of the genre but combine them with techno, breakbeat, electro, minimal etc etc, even if it means that its not necessarily as psychedelic (in the psy scene definition of the term, which is generally pretty narrow IMO) The full on, progressive and goa formulas have all been worked to death and it deeply annoys me to see people criticise music just because they don't consider it to be 'psychedelic' and instead can't judge it for its own musical value (the psynews thread for the reviews of trentemoller's album sums this attitude perfectly IMO)

 

Music needs to continually evolve and progress in order to stay interesting.

[yohankiwi]

Also, as a side note but related to the above post, this is also why I believe mr Posford has such a diehard fanbase (myself included): he is one of the few artists out there who brings something new and interesting into the scene with every release that he puts out. This is the reason why I buy any of his new releases anyway, even if some of his newer stuff isn't as draw droppingly amazing as his older albums.

[Ormion]

Close mindedness is IMO the biggest cancer of today's scene. I personally welcome all of the new outings from psy trance artists that use certain elements of the genre but combine them with techno, breakbeat, electro, minimal etc etc, even if it means that its not necessarily as psychedelic (in the psy scene definition of the term, which is generally pretty narrow IMO) The full on, progressive and goa formulas have all been worked to death, and it deeply annoys me to see people criticise music just because they don't consider it to be 'psychedelic' and instead can't judge it for its own musical value (the psynews thread for the reviews of trentemoller's album sums this attitude perfectly IMO)

 

Music needs to continually evolve and progress in order to stay interesting.

I believe that psytrance CAN evolve without any mix with other genre. But I'm not against those mixes. For example the new great Electrypnose album mixes Psy with Electro. The Suomi stuff that I like have a strong breakbeat side, even sometimes a jazzy one, and my favorite south African scene is very Techno influenced.

But IMO House, Tech House ect. are the mainstream side of dance music. Always were and always be for me. I would find very interesting to hear a House/Psy crossover that actually combines those two genres in a great way. But all of the tracks that I've listened so far sound like a slighlty faster version of clubby house in my ears.

I can see a big part of the psytrance scene evolve in Mykonos bar styled music and that's something that I don't like.

 

 

IMO of course

[Colin OOOD]

Close mindedness is IMO the biggest cancer of today's scene. I personally welcome all of the new outings from psy trance artists that use certain elements of the genre but combine them with techno, breakbeat, electro, minimal etc etc, even if it means that its not necessarily as psychedelic (in the psy scene definition of the term, which is generally pretty narrow IMO) The full on, progressive and goa formulas have all been worked to death and it deeply annoys me to see people criticise music just because they don't consider it to be 'psychedelic' and instead can't judge it for its own musical value (the psynews thread for the reviews of trentemoller's album sums this attitude perfectly IMO)

 

Music needs to continually evolve and progress in order to stay interesting.

+1

 

Although I would disagree that ANY of the psytrance formulas currently extant have been 'worked to death'. In my opinion most people have discovered a small subset of things that work within those formulas and are happy to hammer them into the ground rather than risk doing something slightly different.

[yohankiwi]

I would find very interesting to hear a House/Psy crossover that actually combines those two genres in a great way. But all of the tracks that I've listened so far sound like a slighlty faster version of clubby house in my ears.

Antix- twin coast discovery?

 

+1

 

Although I would disagree that ANY of the psytrance formulas currently extant have been 'worked to death'. In my opinion most people have discovered a small subset of things that work within those formulas and are happy to hammer them into the ground rather than risk doing something slightly different.

Yes ok i have to agree with that. There is still certainly lots of room for experimentation within the psy trance genre itself without necessarily progressing into other genres. Albums like artifakt's the magus, ra's 9th and your own new one this year goes to prove that It's just using the same formula within these genres that becomes so unbearably annoying and frustrating along with the thinking that often accompanies it whereby anything that doesn't stick to this formula is instantly discredited as not being 'psy trance'

[RAH]

Psy trance is by definition a sub-set of predefined sounds and formulas that we collectively know (and identify or misidentify as psy trance). As it has been stated you have room to grow and experiment a bit within these confines, but if you go too far, then suddenly it is not psy anymore according to our definition. The artists that evolved the most (in what direction it is unimportant) are no longer psy, because they decided to stretch the line a bit farther. They crossed over to electro, or tech house, or horror trance or whatever. The sad truth is, once a sub-subculture is defined as such, once we identify the psy sound, or the 'goa' sound, it stops evolving, given those basic elements are now defined.

[ophitoxaemia]

No liquid sounds

Everything sounds so ''rough'' today. Why?

I agree with this... everything sounds so hard, harsh and loud now. I loved the organic sounds and the artists who could make music without making noise.

 

I really love stuff like Sneila & SynSUN from 2000, it is dark and has more modern sounds but definitely very "liquid":

 

Sad that all this stuff was unreleased and instead goa turned into shit.

[Colin OOOD]

Psy trance is by definition a sub-set of predefined sounds and formulas that we collectively know (and identify or misidentify as psy trance). As it has been stated you have room to grow and experiment a bit within these confines, but if you go too far, then suddenly it is not psy anymore according to our definition. The artists that evolved the most (in what direction it is unimportant) are no longer psy, because they decided to stretch the line a bit farther. They crossed over to electro, or tech house, or horror trance or whatever. The sad truth is, once a sub-subculture is defined as such, once we identify the psy sound, or the 'goa' sound, it stops evolving, given those basic elements are now defined.

I completely disagree. There is infinite room for experimentation within the parameters that define something as 'psytrance'. For me the definition of 'psytrance' includes prog, minimal, traumatrance, full-on, goa, even vocal trance... all these have the same basic source (the music was being referred to as psychedelic trance even before the word 'goa' was first used) and IMO are blatantly part of the same overall genre. Phreaky, Silent Horror and Perfect Stranger are brothers in psy and show just a small part of the diversity that is possible.

[Malevol3nt]

Psy trance is by definition a sub-set of predefined sounds and formulas that we collectively know (and identify or misidentify as psy trance). As it has been stated you have room to grow and experiment a bit within these confines, but if you go too far, then suddenly it is not psy anymore according to our definition. The artists that evolved the most (in what direction it is unimportant) are no longer psy, because they decided to stretch the line a bit farther. They crossed over to electro, or tech house, or horror trance or whatever. The sad truth is, once a sub-subculture is defined as such, once we identify the psy sound, or the 'goa' sound, it stops evolving, given those basic elements are now defined.

What Definition? Predefined sounds? Predefined formulas? That's the exact opposite of what psy should be about. I'm sorry, but electro and tech house are not "streched out" psychedellic music, they're something completely different. But if you believe you can call that psy...well.. that's your own idea. I don't really care if artists stretch out the meaning of a genre, actually I respect artists for going to extremes, but that's not what's hapenning right now. The genres are being narrowed down even further with predefined formulas, and that's exactly why 90% of the music blows. Luckily there's other genres I can look up to, like ambient for example, where the ratio of good music to be found is in a better advantage then the psytrance scene.

[NEMO.BOFH]

What Definition? Predefined sounds? Predefined formulas? That's the exact opposite of what psy should be about. I'm sorry, but electro and tech house are not "streched out" psychedellic music, they're something completely different. But if you believe you can call that psy...well.. that's your own idea. I don't really care if artists stretch out the meaning of a genre, actually I respect artists for going to extremes, but that's not what's hapenning right now. The genres are being narrowed down even further with predefined formulas, and that's exactly why 90% of the music blows. Luckily there's other genres I can look up to, like ambient for example, where the ratio of good music to be found is in a better advantage then the psytrance scene.

Kind of what I tried to say with Dark Psy.... but well, it does not work that way, cause people are so PSY about their genre. (shit, I can see rotwang going all balistic on me now saying that I called him scum!)

[NEMO.BOFH]

House-Psy

Tech-Psy

Tech-Electro-Psy

Electro-Psy

Dark-Psy

FullOn-Psy

OldschoolNewschool-Psy

IDM-PSY

Chill-Psy

Funky-Psy

Lofi-Psy

 

 

And the genres of the future

 

Dark-House-Psy

Melodic-Tech-Psy

Mega-Chill-Psy

Fool-Off-Dark-Tech-Psy......

 

They are all cool!

[Colin OOOD]

If you can't see how electro and full-on belong to different genres, and how trauma trance and prog belong to the same genre, then your conception of trance music is different enough to mine that useful communication about it is impossible.

 

Unless you're being deliberately difficult?

[NEMO.BOFH]

If you can't see how electro and full-on belong to different genres, and how trauma trance and prog belong to the same genre, then your conception of trance music is different enough to mine that useful communication about it is impossible.

 

Unless you're being deliberately difficult?

Well, we all have our opinions, dont we?

[ophitoxaemia]

From what I've seen there was a lot more creativity and effort put into goa trance than these things that spun off from it. That's the main reason I stick with goa trance rather than these other things, whatever you want to call them,... they are noisy and boring. I know a handful of exceptions obviously, but it seems like the music lost its integrity after a certain point and evolved into something stale that can entertain the masses and bring in revenue.

 

Even within goa trance there's a lot of crappy stuff, especially in music after 2001 people want to call "goa trance".

 

The real cancer is not a specific genre of music unless it's defined so rigidly that there's no room for creativity within it. In goa trance two different tracks can sound VASTLY different. (Maybe in the modern conception of goa trance that's no longer the case, sadly.) Is the same possible in minimal techno psy and the rest? If it is I don't think that potential is being reached.

 

The real cancer is then that artists produce music to sell something or gain mass appeal rather than putting a lot of effort and creativity into it and coming up with something special.

[RAH]

What Definition? Predefined sounds? Predefined formulas? That's the exact opposite of what psy should be about.

Are we talking from an idealistic standpoint or are we looking at the actual music?

Because if you take full on you will see plenty of full on formulas, similar breakdowns, the bass structures. If you talk about dark-psy, they all seem to have at least one track with their squelchy synth line or atmospheric ominous pads, not counting the glitch elements -or at the very least- a track that is for the love-of-god no slower than 148 BPMs. We are full of predefined formulas, we might not talk about them, artists might not consciously use them, but they are there to make sure it sounds LIKE PSY, and not like electro, or minimal, or bloody house music.

 

I'm sorry, but electro and tech house are not "streched out" psychedellic music, they're something completely different. But if you believe you can call that psy...well.. that's your own idea.

That is not what I said at all.

 

The artists that evolved the most in what direction it is unimportant) are no longer psy, because they decided to stretch the line a bit farther. They crossed over to electro, or tech house, or horror trance or whatever.

Let me re-phrase that, just to be sure. When astrix decides not include the full-on bass lines and crazy guitars and insane build ups... It is not full on anymore. yes?

If he slows down the tempo, adds some percussion and some of those god-awful "bubble" sounds that apparently 80% of minimal artists use these days, then suddenly it is minimal. By convention of what people know and accept, which IS not written in stone and ultimately useless. Normal people won't draw blood over the meaning and intimate differentiations of musical sub-genres unless, off course you are anal retentive.

 

Artist A did psy-prog, think iboga... or something and they cross over to electro or minimal... i mean they stretched out their boundaries (musically speaking) NOt for the better or worse, that's up them to decide, i'm not here to judge, i'm simply stating the difference.

 

I don't really care if artists stretch out the meaning of a genre, actually I respect artists for going to extremes, but that's not what's hapenning right now. The genres are being narrowed down even further with predefined formulas, and that's exactly why 90% of the music blows. Luckily there's other genres I can look up to, like ambient for example, where the ratio of good music to be found is in a better advantage then the psytrance scene.

look i'm not favour of anymore sub-genres and categorizations either, I absolutely love to hear music that breaks them and does it well. Case in point: Lostep - Because We Can.

That is exactly why I stopped writing reviews and buying music, because I was not hearing any evolution in general. For the record I enjoy-ed dark and prog and chill all the same and will still listen to it from time to time.

 

The primary point of this conversation remains and thus why I had to explain this in such parsimonious detail. PSYTRANCE IS DEAD, because the term is too ethereal and ultimately meaningless, Because the culture is full of people who have their own idea of what the sound should be like and vibe and there is not a general consensus. This thread is living proof of it. Psy got diluted to the point where folks don't recognize it's many facets anymore. Back in the 70's you had led zeppelin and you knew it was psychedelic, nobody was going to argue that. Today the world is a different place, more complex and segregated.

[p(sy)ayam]

maybe off topic but,

 

Back in the 70's you had led zeppelin and you knew it was psychedelic, nobody was going to argue that. Today the world is a different place, more complex and segregated.

led zeppeling is not psychedelic !!! who ever takes acid and makes music doesn't necessarily makes psychedelic music...

psychedelic rock was in it's peak in 70s though, and one might say that it was dead in 80s and after, but that's not the case IMO. :drama:

[travbrad1001]

Well there isn't even a psy "scene" where I live, so it would be impossible to kill it.

 

Rolling baselines and lack of melodies are the worst things in psy, which is probably why I don't enjoy most darkpsy. This is just my personal preference though, I certainly don't view it as a "cancer". It's just not my cup of tea.

 

A lot of people seem to think their musical preferences are the absolute truth, which I find particularly odd for the psy scene. Psy is incredibly unpopular when compared to other genres of music, so I'd have thought individual tastes/preferences would be more easily understood by psy listeners.

 

P.S. When I talk about melodies, I don't mean packed-with-melodies style. Just give me SOME sort of melody even if it's one melody being tweaked over the course of the track. Too many melodies can be just as bad as none (especially when quality is sacrificed for quantity)

[Padmapani]

i take everything back!

i just came home form one of the worst psy parties i've ever been to. the music was 100% fullon with every third track a pop remix, every third track with IM style vocals and the rest 'generic', bearable fullon. no one tripping and drunk people falling all over the place.

 

Bring on the darkpsy!

i understand now the 'hate' towards fullon here on the forum

the darkpsy crowd is loving and caring compared to that.