buzzman Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 What I don't really get about it all is why to offer a CompactStick when the same features (extra tracks plus interview or whatnot) could also be achieved by offering a download ... would be cheaper...I think this idea is made as a substitute for downloading, also meaning that it is driving the attention AWAY from the download/internet world... Maybe a stupid way of trying to prevent illegal downloads?? I know alot of people don't want to pay for downloads, because they don't get anything physical, like you pay for something that you can't pick up with your hands, like you can do with a cd... This stick takes care of that problem (no matter if you like the idea or not) PLUS you get the artwork for the compactstick (saw alot of you guys complaining about that ) And it doesn't work on your Hi-fi, but cd's didn't work on Hi-fi when they first came out long time ago... Everything starts somewhere right? Wouldn't be too hard to make a usb connection in the amplifier no? Car stereos allready have that. If we should look at the good things about this: The good thing about this(compared to cd) is that you can't scratch is... Thats something i've been wondering about for a while now... All this technology, and you still have to be ultra carefull with your cd's so you don't ruin them... We can make cars undestructable even to a bomb or a gunshot, so why do cd's has to be so vulnerable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMan Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 This is a step back if anything. The CD offers artwork and the possibility for FLAC. If I were to be unable to get the CD, A quick and cheap download would be the next best thing. A flashdrive is rather silly. Anyway - is anyone here capable of hearing the difference between FLAC and 256kpbs MP3? I challenge you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 This is a step back if anything. The CD offers artwork and the possibility for FLAC. If I were to be unable to get the CD, A quick and cheap download would be the next best thing. A flashdrive is rather silly. Anyway - is anyone here capable of hearing the difference between FLAC and 256kpbs MP3? I challenge you. Once again, you DO get a cover with the artwork for these sticks... And you have possibility of FLAC files with a cd? Why don't you have that with a compactstick containing both WAV and mp3? You can get a program to convert it if you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Moved this topic to our updated forum about Music, Production and the Industry. Yes, we do encourage people to talk about the industry and so on etc etc in this section of the forum. Sorry for the confusion! Psynews.ORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Anyway - is anyone here capable of hearing the difference between FLAC and 256kpbs MP3? I challenge you. Unless you have 5$ Logitech PC Spakers, have been living in a dungeon for the last 5 years, been taken to a hospital because of a near drug overdose a couple of dozen times, been working as an oil rigger for the last 20 years without any ear protection, then YES, you should hear a fucking difference. Of course I'm just kidding there. But there's numerous factors that contribute to just how much (if any) difference you can hear. And that's the whole point. Not every music will shine by using wav's or flac's instead of mp3's. Regular pop music is so much compressed and so light on the instruments that you probably wouldn't hear much of a difference. The same goes with 99% of all the full-on music (for me). There's nothing more I can hear with wav's or flac's then mp3's on that type of music . Not unless I was a full-on hardcore fan that gets a hard-on from those fat basslines, maybe then I could actually hear a difference there. But when it comes to complex music that has numerous layers and uses a really wide spectrum of sounds, then the differences between Wav's (or Flac's) and Mp3's become more apparent. Again to me, because I listen loud and really deep, and I can hear that difference. So yeah, to answer your question. There are actually people who can hear the difference. Maybe you can't, maybe 80% of the population can't, but there are people who can and who care. Saying that people can't hear the difference is the same assumption as when someone thinks that a person can't see visual changes faster then 30 frames per second. Yet there are Navy pilots who have a trained eye that can detect changes in multiple hundreds of fps. Some people just have more developed hearing or sight then others. What's so hard to understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 A compact disc is an inerasable audio format (the same stands for vinyl). What is written on it will be there. It has marked the disc. In contrast with a hard drive. The inspired cover artwork, aside from conceptualizing the sound, gets a role of exciting the imagination or often inspires images and visions during the process. And this corporeal presentation of the music; case, digipak or cardboard box, the pro printed disc, it is something you hold it, you feel it, you own it. Maybe it has to do likewise with a kind of romanticism of a (inner) search in a vinylstore or on the web, "underground" or mainstream and grabbing the trove into your hands. that's nicely put ... a CD has a sort of romanticism connected to it indeed ... which is also a big argument of mine against the CompactStick... but on the other hand it is actually also a reason why I would like a CompactStick now ... I don't want the futuristic, synthetic sound of today to be tied to the same old romanticism format that already millions of other albums were released on ... the new sound is something that doesn't belong into these dimly lit used-CD stores with cardboard boxes and their cellar-like smell anymore, something that I inevitably connect with CDs once they're around in my shelf longer and gathered a little dust... The modern sound of now deserves something modern: little music sticks! Music modules. That's already like in these futuristic books where they store everything on little crystals ... only that it's not crystals in our case, it's CompactSticks. But the big number of disadvantages that come with this totally outweigh the nice futuristic concept visions. I don't want a workaraound to listen to the sound on my hifi and I don't want to rearrange my shelf. I don't want to support a waste of resources when there's a much easier way to get the files over the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Anyway - is anyone here capable of hearing the difference between FLAC and 256kpbs MP3? I challenge you. If you're listening at home for your own pleasure use whatever format you like. It's different when you play out though... I think you need to take things seriously. Given that psytrance is such a highly technical form of music, quality matters. I've not heard any good reason to compromise on quality--especially since hard drives are so cheap, and the only thing you really gain from the MP3 format is file size savings and portability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 this physical format like the cd must be inerasable. it is foolish to have an album release which you can erase it or write something else on it. hehe, give me 5 minutes and a lighter and ill show you how inerasable your CDs are. * does anyone remember super audio cds and super audio cd players (which were highly expensive)? Super_Audio_CD remember? I bought one this week, Pink ployd - dark side of the moon on SACD, costed 18 euro, it plays a different soundquality depending on which player you use. So it is backwardscompatible with all CD players, but off course it sounds best on an SACD player, but i dont have one, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 My five cent rant: I am a big fan of getting rid of the physical media -and I am a vinyl lover- so this stick is for me just a step BACKWARDS in the digital media revolution. And as I see it, they waste just as much useless plastic on this media as for cds. Who on EARTH would like to dj with 50 sticks, when you can have everything on one hard drive? I know that this will trigger loads of you saying that Laptop djs are not really djs, and I will ignore posts like that, cause you are stereotyping the digital dj, and do not look beyond what actually is done when spinning digitally. You might even claim that the quality of the tracks are worse than the ones on cd, but you do not consider that we migt be playing with wav and flac? Anyways, keep it sane, each to their own! Nemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I like the idea. I'm with Depthz in that I want to keep some material aspect of the experience of listening to music, and not just some gimmicky whore iPod. While I see CDs going away, I am not, and have never been comfortable with MP3s or downloaded music. It's impersonal and overly-technical, for robot music eaters. I loved vinyl and then gave up on vinyl for cassettes, then hit the ground running with CDs, but MP3s have made me slow my music consumption, probably because I won't be a pirate, because I've spent my whole life listening to music in high quality, and I'm too old, without enough patience to fuck around on my computer so I can hear the frakkin' music, when it was so much easier to throw a CD in a player and roll full blast, and have artwork and lyrics and stories to look at, during the time it takes to meddle with whatever cold ripping program and format and specifications and metadata, and on and on, that has taken over my machine(s). Give me something I can plug and play quickly, and make it a special object worth the effort it took to create the goddamn thing, and therefore worth listening to, not just data to be played via any number of unbelievably trendy gadgets that I won't buy out of principle. And if it has different formats with extras, then that's something I can get excited about. It seemed for a little while there that DVD might be the new CD. This is even better. Music has always taken on some physical form, and iPods are not a solution in themselves. Listening to music on an iPod is like DJing from a hard drive. It lacks physical proximity to the music itself, insults it even, because music is a personal invitation by artists to their listeners to take a journey to a spiritual place, usually for a fee. But unless I really, really love the creator(s), I won't spend more for a stick than for a CD. But that doesn't seem to be much of an obstacle. MP3s should be for testing purposes only, and if you desperately have to listen to something on a tiny machine in your pocket until you can get home, or to the club or to whatever venue for the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 as for cds. Who on EARTH would like to dj with 50 sticks, when you can have everything on one hard drive? Nemo It could be cool, you could have like a belt or a bag with a rack in, where you can place your sticks, just like bullets for a machinegun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Listening to music on an iPod is like DJing from a hard drive. It lacks physical proximity to the music itself, insults it even, because music is a personal invitation by artists to their listeners to take a journey to a spiritual place, usually for a fee.You really insult a lot of people saying that. You insult a whole community that puts more effort into djing and playing music to people than ANY vinyl dj can ever dream of. Controllerism and Turntablism combined is -at the moment- the most you can do with djing, smart mixing with DAW's is also possible. I feel like you pissed on my hobby and the effort that I have put into this thing (Djing) ! http://www.native-instruments.com/traktormicrosite/#/en/ (Watch the movies and tell me that its not hands on!) http://www.djtechtools.com/ there you can find some people that put a LOT of effort into making djing more flexible than with just 2 decks and a mixer... I think its just hard for people to understand what actually goes on when a dj spins with softmedia, cause when I show people my setup at home, and I move the vinyl player, and the wav file starts scratching, they usually just stare and do not know whats going on, followed by a "Shit, fuck, thats TOO COOL!", it has not failed O N C E . Maybe you ought to go to one of your favorite music shops and get yourself a tour de Traktor or Serato And forget about MP3s in this discussion, think that there are other formats of softmedia that actually has the same quality as a cd does. It could be cool, you could have like a belt or a bag with a rack in, where you can place your sticks, just like bullets for a machinegun!LoL I just imagines those bullet belts from the old Western Movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Who on EARTH would like to dj with 50 sticks, when you can have everything on one hard drive?no, no ... I guess it's not the intention that you are DJing with the sticks, but DJing with laptop with a harddrive where the data of the sticks has been ported on. I think it's intended like that: you buy the stick, put the contents on your HD, store the stick in a shelf as a backup and that's it - you continue with the data on your HD and you can also DJ with it ... just like a beatport download, but in hardware. For the people that have their entire music collection on PC and rip all CDs instantly to their HD this might be a really cool thing. For the mass of users out there that still listen conventionally to CDs on their hifi or DJ with vinyl or whatever this stick just stands for more hassle and so they'll probably not widely accept it as a good thing. And the mass of mobile music users will probably rather download the files from the net. The question is, are enough of these PC CD-rip music people in our scene to make this product established? Obviously the inventors think that this question has to be answered with a yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 LoL I just imagines those bullet belts from the old Western Movies. Exactly what i'm talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 The question is, are enough of these PC CD-rip music people in our scene to make this product established? Obviously the inventors think that this question has to be answered with a yes.Well, the industry sometimes do not listen or want to listen to what the wider audience wants... they just enforce something, and thats it. We will then, be left without any saying or choice. Of course, these sticks are good, if you live in a country with little or no bandwidth to download WAVE files, but I still think its a step backwards to use physical media for a medium which is supposed to be a non-physical one. I will NEVER buy one of those sticks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 CD FTW!!! Can we close this topic now? Really, can anyone compare this with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 CD FTW!!! Can we close this topic now? Really, can anyone compare this with this? No, you can not compare those two (Cause you posted an empty box), but you could compare the first to: 18TB in one box and a cute chick to go with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 No, you can not compare those two (Cause you posted an empty box), but you could compare the first to: 18TB in one box and a cute chick to go with it Ugly!!!! Both the HD's and the girl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Ugly!!!! Both the HD's and the girl! But they fit more music than you will ever have in your lifetime on cd With a Raid 10 system, you could even assume you will NEVER lose the data either. And if you think that this cute girl is ugly, then I am sorry for you Honestly, a guy I know lost 3000 vinyls and 5000 cds when his house burned down, however the data on his hdd's could be recovered... good thing he had ripped almost all of his collection the years before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Honestly, a guy I know lost 3000 vinyls and 5000 cds when his house burned down, however the data on his hdd's could be recovered... good thing he had ripped almost all of his collection the years before If I owned 3000 vinyls and 5000 cds I would keep them inside a fireproof room. And I really mean that! But come one! These hdd's look soooooo minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Fetishize the object of delivery or the music it contains? Physicality is no longer an overriding concern for me. I'll take the 18 Tb and the girl over a wall of paper and plastic products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 If I owned 3000 vinyls and 5000 cds I would keep them inside a fireproof room. And I really mean that! But come one! These hdd's look soooooo minimal. Or just modern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Fetishize the object of delivery or the music it contains? Physicality is no longer an overriding concern for me. I'll take the 18 Tb and the girl over a wall of paper and plastic products. Fetishism is about objects after all, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Yes, and music is not an object! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I really don't understand why people have to feel something in their hands. It's not like you're actually touching the CD while its spinning in your cd player. The CD Player just reads the digital data that's on the CD and sends analog signals to the speakers. Just because it's wrapped in plastic doesn't change the fact that it's just binary data. Binary data that is later interpreted into analog signals. Fuck man, give it a break allready, it's DIGITAL ANYWAYS. You can wrap it up in seven boxes but it wouldnt make a difference. Why is it lame to play music via a computer but not via a cd player? It's the same bloody thing. Computers are just a bit more complex because they have more then just one assignment like the cd player (which is to just do D/A basically). Do you think that music artists use a PEN to write music onto the CD? Cmon man! This whole touching objects thing is ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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