buzzman Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 No such thing as a digital file collector?! LOL!!!!!! I have a couple of TB that proves you wrong! +1 for the digital file collectors im only at 200 gb though... But when im as OLD as you nemo, i probably have that much too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Stinking Hippies! Do you not know that PLASTIC is bad for the environment!? I really love how people scream ENVIRONMENT and then they buy cds with Jewel Cases cause they love the format and want a pretty picture. One argument more to skip the whole PHYSICAL media for music! Yeah, cause memory sticks and hdd's are made of air, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Yeah, cause memory sticks and hdd's are made of air, huh? The Toxines that are creating when doing a CD is for SURE higher than when creating a HDD, AND a hdd you can fit more music on than on a stinking cd... So, take 1.000 cds, thats around 190 GB (give or take, depending on quality etc etc) of music... what do you think creates more toxic waste? 1000 cds or ONE harddrive?! (FLAC 500 albums on 250 GB) I am sorry, but the CD argument does just not make any sense, actually never has! (just as little as Vinyl, but when we had vinyl, there were actually not really a good replacement (Maybe dat?!)  And I already said that the stick is a crap solution I mean what the fuck, create this dumb stick and then make a COVER for it as well?! that is DUMP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMan Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Heheh, you're right. But plastic is the name, and consumption's the game. Fun fact - I work in the Rainforest Foundation - so I scream environment loudest!!  People scream environment, and they want people to walk to work rather than driving there. Little did they know that the food production needed to sustain the loss of calories from walking pollutes WAY more than the car pollutes driving the same distance... Think about it!!  I propose - digipaks. Paper - cellulose from sustainable deforestation with government subsidies purchasing co2 quotas in line with the pollution from production. That should only set us back, what, €45 per album? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Heheh, you're right. But plastic is the name, and consumption's the game. Fun fact - I work in the Rainforest Foundation Norway - so I scream environment loudest!!  People scream environment, and they want people to walk to work rather than driving there. Little did they know that the food production needed to sustain the loss of calories from walking pollutes WAY more than the car pollutes driving the same distance... Think about it!!  I propose - digipaks. Paper - cellulose from sustainable deforestation with government subsidies purchasing co2 quotas in line with the pollution from production. That should only set us back, what, €45 per album? Or just skip that format and start taking 69cent per track world wide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p(sy)ayam Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Stinking Hippies! Do you not know that PLASTIC is bad for the environment!? I really love how people scream ENVIRONMENT and then they buy cds with Jewel Cases cause they love the format and want a pretty picture. One argument more to skip the whole PHYSICAL media for music! the plastic used in CD production is negligible compared to plastic bags used in super markets. why can't hippies see any further than the tip of their noses!?!? it's like not wiping your ass anymore to save the trees!!!!!!!! oh, wait a minutes....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 the plastic used in CD production is negligible compared to plastic bags used in super markets. why can't hippies see any further than the tip of their noses!?!? it's like not wiping your ass anymore to save the trees!!!!!!!! oh, wait a minutes....!That would make muslims the most environment-aware people on the planet. Â Or is wasting water the same as wasting paper? Hmm.. I'm gonna need some diagrams for that. What is more environment-friendly: wiping your ass with water or with paper? Â OR maybeee, wiping your ass with the CD you just ripped? Two birds with one stone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Don't confuse the way we feel about music with the way we feel about the physical media. To put it better. You can have a hi-res image of mona lisa in your pc and watch it every day. Does this chance the art behind it? No. Can you appreciate Da Vinci's genious just by looking the digital pic? Of course you can. But having the real painting itself feels way too different. I'd rather have compared it to books ... real books and ebooks (on CompactSticks ... with a reading device ), I'll always prefer to read "real" books... a small example(true story, very annoying): imagine you have to play 20 tracks of around 15 sec in a period of 3 hours. IN this period is a gap of 35 minutes between 2 tracks. Any CD-player has a moment where the pauzed CD goes to sleep modus, this is mostly 10, 20 or 30 minutes. It cant be longer cause, a longer pause than 30 minutes can damage the gear or CD(and im talking about DENON players here), sleep modus cant be switched off. So because the limitations of the technology youll have to remember to open & close the CDplayer in the 35 minute gap, otherwise the CD player will go to sleep modus a few minutes before you have to play the track. And imagine you forget this and play the track while the player is in sleepmodus, it takes about 3 to 5 sec to start up the engine, find the right cluster and play, those are looooong seconds.I grant you the argument that the CD might be not applicable for your scenario. But I don't have this kind of scenario. I put CD in and listen, that's my scenario. So frankly I don't really care about this...  Stinking Hippies! Do you not know that PLASTIC is bad for the environment!? I really love how people scream ENVIRONMENT and then they buy cds with Jewel Cases cause they love the format and want a pretty picture. One argument more to skip the whole PHYSICAL media for music! Vinyl consists of even more plastic (mass-wise) than a CD ... so I wouldn't exactly name it environmentally friendly. And don't forget that the production of computer parts and memory chips is fostering resource wars in Africa for the metals in these chips ... plus it generates lots of waste aswell. I, however, don't want to discuss what format is the best for the environment since I am no hippie and only care for my own practical needs. And for these the vinyl is best and the CD is second best. Third best is MiniDisc (yes, still although the format is declared dead everywhere, it's not, I'm still going running with my MD player ), fourth best is cassette tape. And after cassette tape there come the CompactSticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 the plastic used in CD production is negligible compared to plastic bags used in super markets. why can't hippies see any further than the tip of their noses!?!? it's like not wiping your ass anymore to save the trees!!!!!!!! oh, wait a minutes....!I am not using plasticbags, we have a shopping cart  and as for Vinyl, I do not buy NEWLY pressed vinyl anymore, stopped that completely, but some rarities I still buy, and I do not feel bad about it, I can not change the past, but I can change the future  Anyways, you all just stick to your precious little stupid cds, and I will be part of the future  EDIT: I hope that compact stick will die out faster than the minidisk did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMan Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Anyways, you all just stick to your precious little stupid cds, and I will be part of the future Enjoy your harddrive mailfunction and cat-pee all over your backup storage. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Just a thought. Are the ppl who bitch about physical formats the ones that they're not willing to pay for their music? Every friend I have that hate physical formats (and make fun of me for paying to buy cds) are the ones that download illegally without paying a cent. Â Maybe...I said maybe this hatred against physical fromats of any kind is because they're simply not free? hm? hmmm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Just a thought. Are the ppl who bitch about physical formats the ones that they're not willing to pay for their music? Every friend I have that hate physical formats (and make fun of me for paying to buy cds) are the ones that download illegally without paying a cent. Whoa. Hold up a minute. Sounds like your friends are common pirates and cheapskates. Sure, lots of people download precisely because it costs nothing, but those of us dealing in digital media at the collector level are into it for different reasons--many of which have already been stated in this very thread. Personally, I am just about done with lugging binders (and before that, a record bag) to gigs. I want one HD with every single track I might ever play--in lossless quality. That's my dream: no more carting atoms around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Whoa. Hold up a minute. Sounds like your friends are common pirates and cheapskates. Sure, lots of people download precisely because it costs nothing, but those of us dealing in digital media at the collector level are into it for different reasons--many of which have already been stated in this very thread. Personally, I am just about done with lugging binders (and before that, a record bag) to gigs. I want one HD with every single track I might ever play--in lossless quality. That's my dream: no more carting atoms around. Obviously my statement wasn't for you. Nor for Nemo. You're both DJs and to be honest If I was a dj I would do the exact same thing, mixing with digital files instead of physical. But in my experience ppl who don't like physical media at all feel that way because...well you have to pay for them. Like I said almost everyone I know is making fun of me for still paying for my music! And like we both know underground music needs support. How can this support come by dowloading? And I don't mean free stuff like the ones in your site. So even if you bash cds for their comfort or the protection of enviroment you still need in a way to support the scene. How can you do that? Plus, you are a professional dj. Would you ever mix a set with illegal files? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needle ninja Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Same story  A truism of invention/innovation is that if a new idea is not sufficiently better then the idea that it would replace, the people will not adopt it.  The music industry has created several formats better then the standard cd audio format (that dates from 1982). CDHD was introduced in the 1990's as an improved audio format with 20bit playback and backwards compatability to standard cd players. It went nowhere. DVD audio was introduced in 1999 and offered the inclusion of 5.1 surround sound and 48kHz sample rate. It was abandoned.  I believe that flash memory is better then cd audio as well simply because it cannot scratch or skip. They are already selling car audio decks with usb inputs and it wound be simple to update hifi systems with an input for flash sticks. But...you probably already know where this is going.  Christopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yeah 5.1 wasn't that welcome, especially by artists. Thats like, 4 more channels to worry about! Not to mention it has grown up to 7.1 since a few years ago (Is it even more channels now?). Insane, only useful for movies really. Â Unless someone is brave enough to actually try making (digital) music with 8 channels in some kind of meaningful way (like not just duplicate the stereo to all of the channels). Classical music might sound cool tho. I've never heard of that many multichannel albums really. I do believe there was a thread for this somewhere..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p(sy)ayam Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Alan Parsons' Valid Path album is in both DTS and Dolby Digital formats. wiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I grant you the argument that the CD might be not applicable for your scenario. But I don't have this kind of scenario. I put CD in and listen, that's my scenario. So frankly I don't really care about this... you re right, i would be suprised if you cared, just wanted to share my experiences. I dont really care too if you play CDs. hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Just a thought. Are the ppl who bitch about physical formats the ones that they're not willing to pay for their music? Every friend I have that hate physical formats (and make fun of me for paying to buy cds) are the ones that download illegally without paying a cent.  Maybe...I said maybe this hatred against physical fromats of any kind is because they're simply not free? hm? hmmm? In my experience, people that download, are people that would not be able to buy anyways, cause they do not have any money at all to spend on music. And yeah, I understood your question, and I am not going to defend myself, as I do not think that you meant me nor any other digital dj I have a LOT of friends that download music pirated, they even collect it, but what they LIKE they buy, and I think that is the fundamental thing here. I collect mp3s, pirated as bought ones, I am not going to deny that! However, I do not play anything in my mixes that I do not own. Sometimes I buy ONE tune of an EP online, cause I do not like the rest, but I do download the other tracks as well, so I have the complete release (I guess I want things to be complete, even if I do not like what I am listening to?)  It is a balance, as I see it, download whatever you want, but if you USE it to mix, BUY it! I do not see anything bad in downloading Previews either, I hate listening to samples, and if there was no pirated mp3s, I would not have bought half of what I did buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Some article about digital vs CD... At this very moment... For every 16 cds that is sold, 1-CD download is sold, also vinyl is coming back (because people like to have something in their hands?)     ccording to Nielsen, consumers purchased more than 1.51 billion music products (albums, singles, music videos and digital tracks), which is a 10.5% increase over 2007. Physical media sales were down by 14%, while digital single sales climbed by 27% to 1.07 billion and digital album sales were up by 32% to 65.8 million, the market research firm estimates.  The three most downloaded tracks were Bleeding Love (Leona Lewis, 3.42 million units), Lollipop (Lil Wayne Feat. Static Major, 3.16 million) and Low (Flo Rida Feat. T-Pain, 2.98 million). The artists that sold the most digital music in 2008 were Rihanna (9.9 million units), Taylor Swift (8.79 million) and Kanye West (6.88 million).  The most successful Internet albums were Metallica’s Death Magnetic (144,000 units), Little Bit Longer (Jonas Brothers, 119,000) and Viva La Vida (Coldplay, 112,000).  Surprisingly, vinyl albums made a comeback in 2008 and an 89% increase in sales from 990,000 to 1.88 million. The top albums were In Rainbows (Radiohead, 25,800 units), Abbey Road (Beatles, 16,500) and Chinese Democracy (Guns ‘n Roses, 13,600). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 lol. so we consume more music than 2007, but they complain that sales are bad? L I A R S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 i can imagine how ridiculous a memory stick collection would look!!! looking for a specific album in your pile of memory sticks would be a pain in the ass as well. but all these said, if (and only if) i can buy a USB connector for my amp for cheap i will buy few albums on memory stick THEY ARE IN A COVER, JUST LIKE YOUR CD's! Imagine Looking for a specific album in your pile of cd's would be a pain in the ass as well, if they didn't have a cover no? If it's loose media you want to have in a big pile, I would rather have a bunch of memory sticks then, caus they don't break and scratch OUTSIDE THE COVER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 lol. so we consume more music than 2007, but they complain that sales are bad? L I A R S well, compared with 10 years ago sales are bad, and when you have an English distribution company who pays you in Pound (which is now worth 30% less then 1 year ago due the economic crisis) many more goa/psy/ambient labels will go bankrupt soon... Watch my words... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psytones Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Imagine how much plastic and enviromentally damaging compounds a computer concists of.. People, firms ect upgrade and throw away computers all the time. People seem to keep their CD's for much longer then their plastic computer Nemo, shopping cart you shoppingcart stealer, I bet your backyard is full of old and used shoppingcarts  What I Realy can't grasp is why the price of one CD has been the Same since pff yeah the 80's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 To be honest I think music in general is priced unresonably. Â Lets take for example factories, which create products with not too much effort, almost everything is automated. These products can be copied for distribution to millions of people. And you have products that are worth anywhere from 100$ to 100.000$ or more. The harder the process to make that product the more money the product ends up costing. At least that's the theory. Â Yet when an artist - a single person or a band - takes 2 years to create an album, which takes enormous efforts, that album ends up costing what.. 20$? Â I'm saying, money doesn't show how much effort someone has put into their work and neither does it show how much someone loves that music. Especially when you know that someone who's working in Germany get's payed 10x the ammount of someone working in east europe for the same job and the same effort. Money is a corrupt system and you can't value music by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 well, compared with 10 years ago sales are bad, and when you have an English distribution company who pays you in Pound (which is now worth 30% less then 1 year ago due the economic crisis) many more goa/psy/ambient labels will go bankrupt soon... Watch my words...Then start selling your stuff online. And come ON, distributor, have you not learned ANYTHING about the music industry?!  Imagine how much plastic and enviromentally damaging compounds a computer concists of.. People, firms ect upgrade and throw away computers all the time. People seem to keep their CD's for much longer then their plastic computer Nemo, shopping cart you shoppingcart stealer, I bet your backyard is full of old and used shoppingcarts  What I Realy can't grasp is why the price of one CD has been the Same since pff yeah the 80's. Stupid argument, there are not as many computers out there as there are cd's and covers are there?! Lets say that everyone in the world owns 2 computers, and everyone in the world owns 20-30 cds, which is more plastic?! I can understand you want to take the piss, but you failed! Shopping trolly, does that ring a bell to you?! More and more people are using them, and especially in Spain at the moment, cause here the companies starting taking money for plastic bags, cause they do not want that you use them  I probably own the most vinyl on this board, and probably own the most music all over on this forum, and I am not proud of how much plastic I have around me, trust me. But its never too late to start re-thinking, right?!  So, Psytones, WHAT ARE YOU doing to keep our planet clean, and what are YOU doing to make the music industry better?! Oh yeah, NOTHING, sorry I knew the answer. Nipwitt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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