A goa album cliche

[Veracohr]

Anyone ever notice the tendency for goa albums to conclude with a down-tempo track? Why has this become so typical? When I first got into goa it seemed kind of nice to wind down an energetic album with a nice mellow song. But I've heard it so often now it's getting kind of annoying. It's not that these ending down-tempo songs are bad, they're often pretty good, but why are they always at the end of the album? I'm not sure if this is also the case with more widely-liked styles like full-on or darkpsy, since I don't really listen to those.

 

Other styles of music, like rock, often have a hard-hitting song at the end of an album. This is a strategic decision. Having an impactful song at the end of an album helps to imprint the memory of the whole album on the listener (assuming one has listened to the whole album from beginning to end, which is much less common now than in the past).

[Drosophila]

I would say it like this (when comparing to how rock artist "do") that if u need a hard hitting track at the end to be remembered then the album simply isn't good enough

 

Back to the question:

For me it usually symbolizes the end of a journey, a coming back to "earth" after flying high or simply blasting away.... So it's not to make an impression (which u should already have at this point) on the listener, but simply to end the journey by landing and not splashing into the wall. In the same notion you often also see a relatively slow first track or even a floaty intro, I believe these serve the same purpose simple with the opposite effect. I personally have no problem with this except if the artist simply doesn't master "downbeat/ambient" music making

[qa2pir]

In my opinion, the main downside of goa is the "psychedelicness" attached to it. I wish there could be more breaking free of these norms. New school goa as it is today seems to steer in the opposite direction, with even longer tracks, more subtle melodies and less distinctive arrangements. I would totally dig an album that embraces the melodic, cybernetically atmospheric side of goa trance and avoids samples about drugs or spirituality, emphasizing the personality of each individual track (through distinctive melodic hooks and recognizable sound textures) instead of conformity between tracks. Shorter track lengths, all-business and no foreplay - but still not goofy and stupid (Finland, you hear me?) - and many tracks on an album, with chill out tracks if they make sense as interludes or otherwise, and not "because they have to be there". If so, I'd like a focus on a more cinematic aspect of the ambience, instead of the ethereal, untouchable, transcendental.

 

Kind of a popularized goa, if you wish. But dismissing it as that would be missing the point, I think.

[abasio]

I agree with Drosophila the long dreamy intros & the downbeat track at the end usually add bookends to the journey. I myself don't like it when an album just starts full pace then ends abruptly still at full pace. That is what (for me) most of the worst albums do. And yes, crap albums have to put their best or most memorable tracks at the end to leave an impression. Impressive albums have no need for such cheap tricks. Cliche or not I like the downbeat tracks at the end of albums just like I like slower tracks towards the end of a DJ set.

[Malevol3nt]

I mostly skip ambient track(s) in goa albums because truth be told I'm not at all impressed by them. I don't know if it's a cliche or just a tradition but I'm not impressed by having an ambient track at the end of a goa album. Seems like more of a filler material to me. Really, if I want to mood-out of an album that had like 8 powerfull tracks then I don't need filler material, I'll just switch and play another album or some other track.

 

Puting an ambient track at the end just because it's a tradition is like forcing people to watch the credits line at the end of movies. Who really cares? Unless you put it there for a valid reason, if you really thought it contributes something to the album.. but not because it's a 'tradition'.

 

A better deal would be to put a semi-ambient track in the middle of the tracklist. Just to let the listener "refresh" for a bit on a mid-tempo track before the 2nd part of the album begins. That would be more effective imho.

[Rotwang]

Personally I like it. You may call it a cliché but you could say the same about lots of things that are standard practice in any given genre (would you call 4/4 time signatures and 8 minute long tracks a "cliché" or would you call it something that trance artists do because it works?). A lot of the downtempo tracks at the end of psytrance albums are really good, it would be a shame if they were never released just because artists who primarily make trance wanted to avoid stereotypes. As for sticking a downtempo track in the middle of an album, I just don't think it would work - IMO it would spoil the flow of the album too much, and if you're not in the mood for a downtempo track then it's less intrusive to skip the first or last track of an album than to skip one in the middle.

 

Regarding fullon and darkpsy, those albums don't tend to have downtempo tracks at the end, even though a lot of darkpsy artists are very good at making chillout stuff. I suppose because the chillout I've heard by darkpsy artists is just too different to the rest of their work - compare Flow to another D5 track, then compare Fast Food Issues to some of Vegetal's usual output.

 

On a different note, does anyone else think it would be good if darkpsy artists made downtempo tracks that sounded like slower versions of their uptempo tracks? I for one would love to hear a chillout version of this or this.

[Malevol3nt]

I don't condone putting ambient tracks at the end, but really from what I've heard these tracks are just a vague attempt at making something downtempo. Ambient music isn't just "psytrance at 80bpm", it takes talent to make a low tempo track interesting. And being a talent at psytrance doesn't automatically make you a talent at every other electronic genre.

 

Can you give me some examples of ambient tracks at end of psy/goa albums that you find to be good? I'd like to give a listen, maybe I haven't tried enough albums. But what I've heard so far isn't that interesting really, except maybe for some AP stuff.

[stupidfatugly]

Khetzal - Avasari, X-Dream - Out of Your Control, and Battle of the Future Buddhas - Marsmellow (Miditation Mix) are a few that spring to mind that I enjoy.

[Rotwang]

I don't condone putting ambient tracks at the end, but really from what I've heard these tracks are just a vague attempt at making something downtempo. Ambient music isn't just "psytrance at 80bpm", it takes talent to make a low tempo track interesting. And being a talent at psytrance doesn't automatically make you a talent at every other electronic genre.

No doubt. But my experience is that psytrance producers frequently are good at making downtempo tracks (which I won't call "ambient" since I take that to mean something else).

 

Can you give me some examples of ambient tracks at end of psy/goa albums that you find to be good?

I already gave the example of Flow by Dimension 5. Here are some more: Braincell, Braincell again, Trold, OOOD (that last one is from the start of the album, not the end).

 

e: another excellent opener by OOOD may be heard here (you'll need to click on the appropriate button in the flash player).

[Drosophila]

Try:

 

Orion - Highway (from Futuristic Poetry)!!!! (This one is bloody fantastic but not "real down-tempo", more like soft trance)

Orichalcum - Cosmic Pillow (from Live)

Koxbox - Searching For Psychoactive Herbs (from Dragon Tales)

Koxbox - Go Fly a Kite (in the beginning of The Great Unknown)

Koxbox - King of Jazz (in the end of The Great Unknown)

D5 - Flow (from Transdimensional as mentioned by Rotwang)

Shakta - Earthrise (from Silicon Trip)

UX - Chrysalis (from Ultimate Experience)

 

All great tracks if u ask me!

[Rotwang]

Gaah! How could we forget to mention Dancing with Kadafi?

[p(sy)ayam]

GOAmbient FTW!!!!

 

topic closed

[Drosophila]

Gaah! How could we forget to mention Dancing with Kadafi?

True!

 

but when talking about more "modern" and not Goa artists there's also Talpa - The Art Of Being Non::

 

First Ray Of Light (opening track)

Back To Dreaming (closing track)

 

really nice work in these tracks (and fitting titles as well )

 

Procs - The Thin Rustle of Weeds (from The Lonely Land Of Tada)

 

Prometheus - Robot-O-Chan (opening track on Robot-O-Chan) funnily enough the only track that I really like on that album.

[Basilisk]

And then there are the guys that think it is revolutionary to put the cliched downtempo track in the middle of the album somewhere!!

[Drosophila]

doublelelee

[fluffymushi]

And then there are the guys that think it is revolutionary to put the cliched downtempo track in the middle of the album somewhere!!

or even better, all over the album! vicious delicious-style.

[Malevol3nt]

So if nobody tried it, it means it won't work? Great logic there. Actually that's what makes up for the 90% of the scene artists these days. The whole "don't experiment too much because it will hurt you" mentality.

[Rotwang]

So if nobody tried it, it means it won't work? Great logic there.

Sorry, who the hell actually said that?

[Veracohr]

I already gave the example of Flow by Dimension 5.

Yeah, that's a good one.

 

The thing is, the more I hear it the more I get annoyed with it, so I tend to be biased against those end songs. I agree it can be a good way to wind down an album's journey, but ending every album the same way sort of implies that every album is the same journey.

[Rotwang]

I agree it can be a good way to wind down an album's journey, but ending every album the same way sort of implies that every album is the same journey.

I don't see how this implication follows. If all the end-of-album downtempo tracks sounded the same then you might have a point, but to my ears they don't; actually I'd say that there's at least as much room for variety in goambient as there is in goa (though I'm probably not the best judge since a lot of 90's goa sounds very samey to me). Look at it another way: suppose that artists never ended an album with a downtempo track, and every goa album consisted of 8-11 high-BPM trance tracks. Would you think this meant that every goa album was the same?

[Veracohr]

I don't see how this implication follows. If all the end-of-album downtempo tracks sounded the same then you might have a point, but to my ears they don't; actually I'd say that there's at least as much room for variety in goambient as there is in goa (though I'm probably not the best judge since a lot of 90's goa sounds very samey to me). Look at it another way: suppose that artists never ended an album with a downtempo track, and every goa album consisted of 8-11 high-BPM trance tracks. Would you think this meant that every goa album was the same?

I think that since a moderate to high BPM is one of the defining elements of trance music, a downtempo song on an album full of trance is the odd one out, and thus calls attention to itself. An album of trance with no downtempo song is just an album of trance, like any other genre of music. But putting an unmistakably different style at the end is a call to pay special attention to that song. That's fine, but when album after album after album uses the same exit strategy, I can't help bu wonder why all these artists and labels feel the need to end different sounding albums in the same way. Generally speaking; certainly there is a lot of room for variation in goambient. But in a general "this is most definitely slower and more relaxed sounding" way.

 

Say a hardcore rapper ended an album with an old school soul song. That might seem like a personal thing specific to that artist, but if 3/4 of every hardcore rap album ended in an old school soul song, would it not seem like they're just blindly following their predecessors' lead?

[Rotwang]

I think that since a moderate to high BPM is one of the defining elements of trance music, a downtempo song on an album full of trance is the odd one out, and thus calls attention to itself. An album of trance with no downtempo song is just an album of trance, like any other genre of music. But putting an unmistakably different style at the end is a call to pay special attention to that song. That's fine, but when album after album after album uses the same exit strategy, I can't help bu wonder why all these artists and labels feel the need to end different sounding albums in the same way.

Again, in saying that different artists are ending different sounding albums in "the same" way, you are drawing a line between simply remaining within the confines of a genre (which necessarily means making music which shares many characteristics with other musicians making the same genre), and being unoriginal. How do you decide where to draw that line? Have you noticed, for example, that many goa albums open with a long, sustained note which undergoes some tone-control twisting before the first beat and fast melody kicks in? Would you call that a cliché, or do you think it's just the way that goa albums start?

 

 

Generally speaking; certainly there is a lot of room for variation in goambient. But in a general "this is most definitely slower and more relaxed sounding" way.

 

Say a hardcore rapper ended an album with an old school soul song. That might seem like a personal thing specific to that artist, but if 3/4 of every hardcore rap album ended in an old school soul song, would it not seem like they're just blindly following their predecessors' lead?

I hope you don't mind if I sidestep your example, and point out instead that many (perhaps most, I don't know enough to say) rap albums open with a short spoken-word intro. Would you call that a cliché, or just a standard practice?

[needle ninja]

You see Mr Veracohr, this kind of music is called "drug music" and the "journey" ends with a comedown.

Thus, all goa, a very specific range of creation with very specific rules of creation, have comedown tracks at the end of goa albums.

 

That is why I never want to listen to just one genre of music.

[Veracohr]

Again, in saying that different artists are ending different sounding albums in "the same" way, you are drawing a line between simply remaining within the confines of a genre (which necessarily means making music which shares many characteristics with other musicians making the same genre), and being unoriginal. How do you decide where to draw that line? Have you noticed, for example, that many goa albums open with a long, sustained note which undergoes some tone-control twisting before the first beat and fast melody kicks in? Would you call that a cliché, or do you think it's just the way that goa albums start?

Well, that 'line' is completely subjective. Wherever I draw it doesn't really have any relation to where someone else might draw it. And no, I haven't noticed the intro thing. Although now that you mention it, I'll probably start listening for it and become annoyed.

 

And honestly, where I draw that line varies depending on the day and my mood.

 

I hope you don't mind if I sidestep your example, and point out instead that many (perhaps most, I don't know enough to say) rap albums open with a short spoken-word intro. Would you call that a cliché, or just a standard practice?

I suppose I'd have to hear it to form an opinion, but it sounds like the same thing I'm talking about with goa, so I'd probably call it a cliché.

[Rotwang]

Well, that 'line' is completely subjective. Wherever I draw it doesn't really have any relation to where someone else might draw it.

[...]

And honestly, where I draw that line varies depending on the day and my mood.

[...]

I suppose I'd have to hear it to form an opinion, but it sounds like the same thing I'm talking about with goa, so I'd probably call it a cliché.

Fair enough.