Ormion Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 that people that don't listen to dance music seems to always refer to it as boom-boom music? (boom is the kick drum obviously). It seems that the kick drum is the only thing they can hear in a dance track. There was that old dude in my work today and he started talking about the old days and how good music was and blah-blah and eventually he started talking about the modern dance music and that it's all the same, just boom-boom all the time. This argument comes every time when some guy who's not interest in dance music talks about it. My best friend who is a metalhead but digs some dance music believes that all psytrance is pretty much the same, because apparently they are all boom-boom. I mean you can add multiple melodies, dozens of layers, hundreds of effects, hats, snares, pads, crazy bass, anything but no! All they can hear is the kick! It's like saying that all rock music is boom-tski-boom-tsa because all I can hear is the drums! FAIL :wank: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melancholyman Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Yep, always when I try to introduce this music to people they're like. "Hey! It sounds the same all the time!" Just as you said, then can only hear the bassline, they don't even try to listen to the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 hilarious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KozmikTentacles Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 That's not all they hear. But I think it's more a matter of how much you are exposed to a certain type of music. In the beginning I didn't like electronic music either, and much of it sounded the same. I used to be into alot of 60's psychedelic rock. But now, it's the opposite, alot of that old music sounds the same to me instead. I also notice this when I discover a new genre, let's say 'electro' that I started listening to recently, but the more I listened the more I was aware of the small varations between artists and their songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 That's not all they hear. But I think it's more a matter of how much you are exposed to a certain type of music. In the beginning I didn't like electronic music either, and much of it sounded the same. I used to be into alot of 60's psychedelic rock. But now, it's the opposite, alot of that old music sounds the same to me instead. I also notice this when I discover a new genre, let's say 'electro' that I started listening to recently, but the more I listened the more I was aware of the small varations between artists and their songs. That's what I mean. They don't even give the music a second thought or even a doubt that it's not just kick-kick-kick. I agree than when you're not familiar with a music genre it really sound all the same but! When I listen to Jazz most of the songs sound the same (I don't like Jazz that much) When I listen to Soul most of the songs sound the same too(I don't like Soul that much either) But I can hear the difference between Jazz and Soul. They can't tell a difference between Techno and House, Trance and Electro, Darkpsy and Goa, because they only hear the kick! I mean wtf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psytones Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Answer must be; Infected Mushroom. Their album Classical Mushroom has this power to convert peoples mind. np. Infected Mushroom - Nothing Comes Easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 Answer must be; Infected Mushroom. Their album Classical Mushroom has this power to convert peoples mind. No it can't! I have tried many 'experiments' trying to prove to my friends and relatives that not all dance is the same. It has a 4/4 kick? It's all the same. Another thing that I have noticed is that they can't really understand the dance more complex melodies. I had an argument (again with my best friend) about really melodic music. I remember I put for him a Pleiadians track from IFO (Maia I think) and he didn't find really melodic. I guess they have used to listen to more simple melodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KozmikTentacles Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 It can be very hard to "convert" someone. But I think the key if you want to do it, is to make some research what they like at the moment and build from there. But if they never listened to any type of electronic music it can be hard of course. But you can see some pattern. People who like metal may be open to other genres that may be very intense, like trance. But if they listen to stuff like jazz, I think I would play some kind of IDM music like Autechre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goa-Head Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 This is a lost war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psytones Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 In my personal experience, IM is the one act I have been able to put on when there are a lot of other people in the room that can't like dunkdunk mosakk. Most seem to accept and find it interesting to a ceratin level. Well I know what your thread question is about and I agree, they can't seem to get passed the kick-drum. And their ears are rarly capible of hearing the complex layers and turns inside and behind the dunkadunk. It's something like what the king said to Mozart when complaining about the music he made was too complicated, the human ear wasn't able to listen to so many lines or smth. And besides, people seem to like it simple. There are so much more people enjoying Minimal Techno etc then psychedelic trance music. It's slower, easier to handle. Too much information makes them confused and eary. No wonder Full-On made it big This is a lost war. Jepp, and who's trying to win it anyway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrognomix Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 THe problem here is as with most music... 90% of all music from every genre is essentially crap. So, 90% of what people hear and consider to be the psytrance we research and dig through all that crap for to be what they are used to hearing... even if you get them to listen, most are biased enough that they will not actually *hear* what is going on, especially since really good psytrance up or downtempo requires a tuned ear and mind to really understand and delve into. That's pretty much how I see it, but I wouldn't say stop trying. Honestly I think the best way to convert people is with the downtempo, though, stuff like Ott, Shpongle, Androcell or Kaya Project is more likely to attract outsiders, imo, especially since all 4 of those artists will use more of a range of bass/kick drum patterns. That's my two cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melancholyman Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I have tried many 'experiments' trying to prove to my friends and relatives that not all dance is the same. LOL experiments! (strange foreign scientist voice) I think we experimented to solve problem! (Crowd Control - Thors Armpit) edit: but I do agree with NilsTentacles, cause I know when I listen to music genres I am not really into, I do find it to sound very much the same from track to track or artist to artist. I mean play Ultimae releases to a rocker, he would surely just say it sounds exactly the same. But it's also that people that have a genuine music interest really lsitens when they hear a track, which is not the case with you're everyday Lady Gaga listener. They need simple melodies because they don't want to exhaust they're pathetic brains(minds) by fully getting wrapped up in the music. edit2: ehrm saw that all my statements were stated already next time I'll read the thread first, excuse me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longloststar Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I guess they aren't intelligent enough to hear higher frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melancholyman Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I guess they aren't intelligent enough to hear higher frequencies. I can smell you're irony. As was I, all humans have the possibility of a Buddha mind. But being humble isn't always easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhale Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Omg exactly! My family says it is just boom-boom-boom...... Even when I play beatless ambient music they will imagine booming or say it's too boring (which is often true, mind you). I think you need to give it a chance and listen for awhile before you start to understand it. It's a lot different than popular music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laserflip Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I think it's because of the diffrent mastering. In rock music the percussion is never that loud and clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeros Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 LOL experiments! (strange foreign scientist voice) I think we experimented to solve problem! (Crowd Control - Thors Armpit) edit: but I do agree with NilsTentacles, cause I know when I listen to music genres I am not really into, I do find it to sound very much the same from track to track or artist to artist. I mean play Ultimae releases to a rocker, he would surely just say it sounds exactly the same. But it's also that people that have a genuine music interest really lsitens when they hear a track, which is not the case with you're everyday Lady Gaga listener. They need simple melodies because they don't want to exhaust they're pathetic brains(minds) by fully getting wrapped up in the music. edit2: ehrm saw that all my statements were stated already next time I'll read the thread first, excuse me. Yes but in the end, good music is good music, and there are those who simply like good music and hate defining things into a genre. I smell a psytrance elitistism topic about to spur on . I dunno, full on is mostly god awfully terrible and lazy, but there are so many people who swear by certain really good melodic full on tracks, but we just can't get over that borring monotone rubber bass. so same thing there. But on the other hand I agree with you, music should not be dismissed. I have tried many expiraments too but have had good luck, simply tell them the kick is not what you're supposed to be listening to. If all else fails recommend them some headphones and to listen to really good trance with eyes closed, and after about 15 minutes of just nestling into the music, to attempt to recognize what part of the track you are hearing (within the same track) .. is it beginning middle or end, you won't be able to tell....So break them into what trance music basically is, and then all thats left is for them to find that certain sound that sets them off, everyone has their first favorite that makes you a fan of the style. For me I have always preferred rythmic, lyricless music because lyrics in most music distract me from the vibe of the music, they put a definition to it when I would rather preffer the much more open interpretation of melodies and composition, which should achieve the same thing when done right. Also when I first heard goa and psytrance I didn't think human beings could possibly have made it :posford: and thats the wave most of us here are on. But following that grove, I deeply enjoy ambient music, even certain phases of classical, jam sessions, progressive rock or anything that can claim to be progressive...(jazz) and spontaneous. Lyrics can do this too on rare occasions, but that depends on the singer using their voice spontaneously and progressively. But what do you mean, it really is just doof doof doof and glitched out robot noises, or from 2003-2007, stupid alien farts. At best it sounds like flying saucers shooting lassers creating fractal crop circles, but thats just because we're dorks. For israeli full on nagas, it sounds like a 1 foot long line of coke. For suomi gnomes, rolling around in the dirt while drunk. Its best to be humble on this matter and just smile at what you have discovered, where everyone else can't see it even though its under their nose. But its really they need to understand trance first to get over the kick. For us its like not even there, for them its a traumatic pounding noise going twice per second. You found this remember, not the other way around. But to get to the point, good music is good music and thats just what everyone likes. They have similar emotional attatchments and mostly similar vibes overall to what they discover as good music. This can be proven from a sociological point of view by over dubbing a raging music party over another raging music party, like so: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Lord that's funny!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melancholyman Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yes but in the end, good music is good music, and there are those who simply like good music and hate defining things into a genre. I smell a psytrance elitistism topic about to spur on . I dunno, full on is mostly god awfully terrible and lazy, but there are so many people who swear by certain really good melodic full on tracks, but we just can't get over that borring monotone rubber bass. so same thing there. But on the other hand I agree with you, music should not be dismissed. I have tried many expiraments too but have had good luck, simply tell them the kick is not what you're supposed to be listening to. If all else fails recommend them some headphones and to listen to really good trance with eyes closed, and after about 15 minutes of just nestling into the music, to attempt to recognize what part of the track you are hearing (within the same track) .. is it beginning middle or end, you won't be able to tell....So break them into what trance music basically is, and then all thats left is for them to find that certain sound that sets them off, everyone has their first favorite that makes you a fan of the style. For me I have always preferred rythmic, lyricless music because lyrics in most music distract me from the vibe of the music, they put a definition to it when I would rather preffer the much more open interpretation of melodies and composition, which should achieve the same thing when done right. Also when I first heard goa and psytrance I didn't think human beings could possibly have made it :posford: and thats the wave most of us here are on. But following that grove, I deeply enjoy ambient music, even certain phases of classical, jam sessions, progressive rock or anything that can claim to be progressive...(jazz) and spontaneous. Lyrics can do this too on rare occasions, but that depends on the singer using their voice spontaneously and progressively. But what do you mean, it really is just doof doof doof and glitched out robot noises, or from 2003-2007, stupid alien farts. At best it sounds like flying saucers shooting lassers creating fractal crop circles, but thats just because we're dorks. For israeli full on nagas, it sounds like a 1 foot long line of coke. For suomi gnomes, rolling around in the dirt while drunk. Its best to be humble on this matter and just smile at what you have discovered, where everyone else can't see it even though its under their nose. But its really they need to understand trance first to get over the kick. For us its like not even there, for them its a traumatic pounding noise going twice per second. You found this remember, not the other way around. But to get to the point, good music is good music and thats just what everyone likes. They have similar emotional attatchments and mostly similar vibes overall to what they discover as good music. This can be proven from a sociological point of view by over dubbing a raging music party over another raging music party, like so: Word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 This applies to all genres, not just dance. The fact is that different genres of music need to be listened to in different ways, and if you try to listen to different acts from the same genre when you don't know what you should be listening out for then it's going to sound samey. And it works both ways too - I expect most people here think that most verse/chorus-structured, lyrically-driven pop music sounds samey, but if someone who listens to music for the vocal melody and lyrics hears a record with melody and lyrics he hasn't heard before then as far as that person is concerned it's an original tune, even if the instrumentation and so forth is very similar to other stuff. This is really no different to how two darkpsy tracks can sound very different even if they are built around the same bassline, kick drum and (complete lack of) melody. That's not to say I would entirely defend people who think that all dance is "boom boom boom" music though, since in my experience those people typically don't realise that there is more than one way to listen to music, whereas dance fans usually do (necessarily so, since they will have been brought up listening melodic pop like everyone else). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karan129 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I've gone through the same thing with many people, and in the end I had to resign myself to the truth, which admittedly was staring me in the face all throughout... We just have better taste. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhale Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 This happens to me always. Whenever I listen to a new type of music I get recommendations and usually think they suck, then come to understand them better after some time just forcing myself to listen and see why others think they are good. That said it doesn't always work out that way, and I still think a lot of types of music is better or worse than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 This happens to me always. Whenever I listen to a new type of music I get recommendations and usually think they suck, then come to understand them better after some time just forcing myself to listen and see why others think they are good. I'm sure there must be a lesson in there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 It's all been said previously in the thread but I agree that any music that you are not into can generally all sound the same because you don't really listen to it. Almost every genre has some great stuff in it but also a lot of shit but if you don't listen to a genre it is hard to tell the difference between good and bad. I think that only the genres you really listen to can you really understand what is quality and what is not. When I get into a genre I'll often first buy what is popular and "highly recommended" and like it at first then delve deeper and realise those popular releases were nothing compared to what is out there. But take me back in time to when I was starting out and I wouldn't be able to tell much difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 It seems that my topic has slightly been misunderstood. First of all this is not a topic only about psytrance, but about all dance music. Second of all this topic is not a complain that ppl that don't listen to dance music find all dance tracks to be similar. That's a fact and pretty normal. When you don't listen to a music genre then you can't find major differences between the songs (mostly because of the lack of experience with that genre). For example I found most of the Death Metal songs to be similar, but my best friend who likes Death Metal can hear all the different elements. This topic is about the boom-boom problem, not about the fact that some people can't aprecciate dance music. It's about the strange(?) habit for non-dance listeners to simply hear only the kick drum! It doesn't matter if it's Goa or Darkpsy or Techno. For them everything is boom-boom. So the question is: Why the only focus on the kickdrum? When I listen to Death Metal I don't focus to the drums. And damn the drums are wild and pretty similar in all the songs. I completelly understand for a 50-years-old guy who grew up with classic rock or a 15-years-old pop chick to dislike psytrance for example or not to be able to hear any difference between Kindadza and Derango I'm not that paranoid, but why focus only on the kickdrum? Why? It's repetetive yes, but move on! So many things happen to the tracks, why focus only on that? I could understand that in a Gabber track with a kick loud as hell, but they even complain about soft Trance or something. Let's talk about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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