p(sy)ayam Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 a death metal n00b can only hear distortion sounds bc that's dominating in electronic dance music it's the baseline. the same way vocals can distract you from the actual music, baseline can distract those who are not familiar to this kind of music. i'm not surprised tbh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veracohr Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I had an argument (again with my best friend) about really melodic music. I remember I put for him a Pleiadians track from IFO (Maia I think) and he didn't find really melodic. Pleiadians is absolutely the WRONG artist to use to introduce someone to goa. They are way too chaotic. It would be better to use something like Astral Projection or Chi-A.D. Also, I might agree that Maia is not particularly melodic. Lots of notes do not equal melody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCrow Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Speaking exclusively of the "boom-boom". Unfortunately(or fortunately) it's a stigma that's been attached to the electronic genre that some will never be able to get or see past. Some may not want to be seen as one of "those" that are into the "boom-boom" because of the many generalisations that have been formed around it. Only listened to if you're some shallow slutty party goer or fucked up on drugs 24/7, or both. It's not real music, where are the instruments etc. They've heard from others, their friends and associates that it's only "boom-boom", so therefore it is. If you listen to this music you are this kind of person or that music you are that kind of person etc. People are generally afraid of stigma or being different and many people's minds are barely capable of expansion past early conditioning or that which is considered normal/accepted in their exposed circle of life. Also The majority of electronic music that people may have been first exposed to in the mainstream is pretty terrible and they may lack the initiative/interest/direction to take to plunge past that mainstream barrier/stigma into its delicacies and intricacies. Alot of people are affected permanently by first impressions. Their mind crystallises easily, primarily as a form of survival and poor training, which extends into their likes and dislikes. Prejudice and bias is rife. Some may also lack the subtley, style or want(different tastes etc) of mind to get past the booming beat/electronics into some of the rewarding changes, nuances, compositions, subtleties and complexities which reside therein. It's a different form of sound wave. They also forget/don't know or notice the tribal rythmic meditative value of the "boom-boom". Which can actually work well for the mind. I'm also certainly not saying that people who listen to psy/electronica or that I myself am exempt from alot of the above tendencies that I've tried to describe. If I've repeated myself a little here it's because my mind has been deranged by the "boom-boom". Now I'm off to bop and gyrate senselessly in the corner. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCrow Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Yah yah, double post. Another side to this effect is it's partial shadow, that being the ambient/experimental genre. "When's this track gunna start man, where's the kick?" People who listen within the electronic genre may be turned off ambient pieces. Closing off their minds almost instantly because it lacks an element they firmly associate with the genre. Obviously ambient is not going to be for everyone, but some don't give it time to settle and digest because it lacks "boom-boom" or pattern they are habitually used to associating with their enjoyment. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 because it lacks "boom-boom"of course ambient is boring without "boom-boom"! seriously, i can't get into any beatless amient. breakbeats are fine and 4/4 kick is better, but with beatless i just fall asleep or get nervous waiting for the kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 Yah yah, double post. Another side to this effect is it's partial shadow, that being the ambient/experimental genre. "When's this track gunna start man, where's the kick?" People who listen within the electronic genre may be turned off ambient pieces. Closing off their minds almost instantly because it lacks an element they firmly associate with the genre. Obviously ambient is not going to be for everyone, but some don't give it time to settle and digest because it lacks "boom-boom" or pattern they are habitually used to associating with their enjoyment. Jon That reminds me of the classic question that people who listen only to music with lyrics have: "When the singing is gonna start man?" There's no singing. Then what are you listening? of course ambient is boring without "boom-boom"! seriously, i can't get into any beatless amient. breakbeats are fine and 4/4 kick is better, but with beatless i just fall asleep or get nervous waiting for the kick. Actually this is one of the thing I love in beatless ambient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 even with the crazy noise, juicy drum kick, some people cant stay focus on the music that loong, i mean, i love electronica because i am able to listen to the song from start to finish and appreciate every changing details, even if its a tiny change, some people dont want to ''loose'' their time focusing on the music to appreciate it, and in some way, i understand them. i mean, i have a lot of friends who are musicians(guitar mostly, and what they wanna hear, its guitar, not tchik-tchik-tchik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 well they ARE similar ( not the same but similar) , since they have 4x4 beat and rather similar drum structure/patterns Of course to us sometimes the difference between different genres or between tracks of the same genre even, might seem huge, due to the different blend of all the layers and rhytms etc. Remember that in the past there was no distinct difference between house,trance and techno. They started to get more seperate and distinct after 90s. (correct me if I am wrong). And of course most electronic dance music is very repetitive music, but should we talk about REPEAT now ? =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 well they ARE similar ( not the same but similar) , since they have 4x4 beat and rather similar drum structure/patterns Of course to us sometimes the difference between different genres or between tracks of the same genre even, might seem huge, due to the different blend of all the layers and rhytms etc. Remember that in the past there was no distinct difference between house,trance and techno. They started to get more seperate and distinct after 90s. (correct me if I am wrong). And of course most electronic dance music is very repetitive music, but should we talk about REPEAT now ? =D They are similar, no question about that, but this topic is not about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psytones Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 This thread has two pages and will continue to grow with posts on the Offtopic-side in Ormions confused fustration ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 They are similar, no question about that, but this topic is not about that. They are similar, no question, but the topic is about people that think all music with a kick is the same because they can only listen to the kick ?? =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 This thread has two pages and will continue to grow with posts on the Offtopic-side in Ormions confused fustration ? Well only a few ppl have really answered to my question. They are similar, no question, but the topic is about people that think all music with a kick is the same because they can only listen to the kick ?? =P The topic is why they only listen to kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 oh... I guess because it's the most predominant element . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 oh... I guess because it's the most predominant element . Exactly, but do you really think it is? Like I said I can understand that in a track with a loud kick or in track more minimal, but IMO in most dance tracks out there, from commercial House to experimental stuff the kick is not the dominant element. Maybe I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 leaving experimental stuff outside, even in house i think the kick is the dominant element, setting the rhythm etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrognomix Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Okay I think I found how to answer this one in a metaphorical way that maybe makes more sense than trying to actually describe it. Dance music, psytrance, goa, whatever with a strong kick, is an art form, unique in it's own musical style. Just like an oil painting vs a water color or crayons etc. The kick drum, if this music was a painting, to me is like the canvass. It creates the utterly hypnotizing effect that can draw the listener in, and allow the other sounds on higher frequencies really let brain waves expand and hallucinations happen. Unfortunately, most people find that kick really overwhelming, and when you look at the general populace, most people don't practice meditation or really pay attention to their dreams or anything like that. So basically, the kick drum to me is like a canvass that is very hard to see through, requiring a lot of focus, and it just doesn't make sense to a lot of people because they lack the imagination or the mental capacity to really look deeper, through the canvass and into the art, and to form their own interpretation of it based on the way that it touches them emotionally or imaginitively. I hope that makes sense and maybe leads us to an answer to your question we can agree to. It is the best way I can explain how I feel about this without saying that it's just our l33t musical taste and they are unknowing infidels to not love it . I actually dislike about 99% of uptempo psy, but what I like I LOVE, but still listen to psychill/dub/downtempo much more often :drama: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariScotle Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 At this point I'm not even sure I want my friends to discover this music and like it. Because even if I could get them to give it a chance and they finally ended up listening to enough of it to think "ok I'll get such and such album" they will never get it or understand it even if they like it enough for the occasional listen. And then.... trying to have them talk to me about it from some "who cares" point of view or God forbid, tell me why so and so (insert classic masterpiece artist here) just sucks and that the old schoolers are short sided and don't understand the new wave or whatever??? I don't think I could bear it - I'd just rather they still like Metallica or Justin Timberlake or whatever mainstream music fans are into these days and leave psy alone. I've been through this with all my friends before with jazz, death metal, thrash & progressive rock. Just can't sell em what's not on mtv sadly. I'll just keep my music to myself and continue to listen to "how the hell can you listen to that boom boom crap all the time?" and deal with it. I live in my own happy psyworld anyway - it doesn't need any unwilling visitors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Okay I think I found how to answer this one in a metaphorical way that maybe makes more sense than trying to actually describe it. Dance music, psytrance, goa, whatever with a strong kick, is an art form, unique in it's own musical style. Just like an oil painting vs a water color or crayons etc. The kick drum, if this music was a painting, to me is like the canvass. It creates the utterly hypnotizing effect that can draw the listener in, and allow the other sounds on higher frequencies really let brain waves expand and hallucinations happen. Unfortunately, most people find that kick really overwhelming, and when you look at the general populace, most people don't practice meditation or really pay attention to their dreams or anything like that. So basically, the kick drum to me is like a canvass that is very hard to see through, requiring a lot of focus, and it just doesn't make sense to a lot of people because they lack the imagination or the mental capacity to really look deeper, through the canvass and into the art, and to form their own interpretation of it based on the way that it touches them emotionally or imaginitively. I hope that makes sense and maybe leads us to an answer to your question we can agree to. It is the best way I can explain how I feel about this without saying that it's just our l33t musical taste and they are unknowing infidels to not love it . I actually dislike about 99% of uptempo psy, but what I like I LOVE, but still listen to psychill/dub/downtempo much more often :drama: I always found the kick and the bass to be the canvas too, and everything on top of them are the colors and the shapes. Nice example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 that people that don't listen to dance music seems to always refer to it as boom-boom music? (boom is the kick drum obviously). not everyone calls it boom-boom-boom some people also call it, doof doof... Doof... we only learn what we are interested about. Not everyone likes electronic music. I can't recall how many times, i've tried to teach ex-girlfriends and old friends about this music and the intricate world around it. Some will go to length of listening to it a bit, but not everyone gets bitten by the same snake. It's taste at the end of day. I tried to stop 'educating' a while ago. Instead, I got a girl that can appreciate a good electronic music and I try to share the music and love for it, with people that understand it. The rest seems like a lost cause to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KozmikTentacles Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The rest seems like a lost cause to me. Yeah, I've stopped trying too. No point it feels like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraydoG Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Everyone who talks to me either calls any trance I listen to 'Techno' or if they know a little more they say 'Hey, you listen to house dont you?'. I fucking hate House & Techno so that bothers me haha >_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simorq Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 To their credit, though: it's normal to take a while to get into psy, I think. I was introduced to the genre a few years ago through hearing Shpongle. When I first heard Hallucinogen, I didn't like it...I had some repulsion to it actually. Now, I love it. I know at least a few people who also took time getting used to the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psytones Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 some shrooms or drops will help them to understand the ,,unimportance" of the kick and bass. These elements are only there to drive the track/art forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insejn Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Okay I think I found how to answer this one in a metaphorical way that maybe makes more sense than trying to actually describe it. Dance music, psytrance, goa, whatever with a strong kick, is an art form, unique in it's own musical style. Just like an oil painting vs a water color or crayons etc. The kick drum, if this music was a painting, to me is like the canvass. It creates the utterly hypnotizing effect that can draw the listener in, and allow the other sounds on higher frequencies really let brain waves expand and hallucinations happen. Unfortunately, most people find that kick really overwhelming, and when you look at the general populace, most people don't practice meditation or really pay attention to their dreams or anything like that. Uhm, what? Are you saying that this a way of understanding psytrance? I don't think that has to do with anything. I never meditate, think about if my dreams have a deeper meaning or anything like that. Infact, I think all the spiritual crap surrounding this scene is 100% mumbo jumbo. Trying to connect with the nature and god knows all you can read about what people are doing when listening to this music. It's pretty damn funny actually. But hey, maybe it "works" for them so I'm not judging anybody I LOVE the music. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psytones Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 can I just make a comment about the statements that I read from people about; 'when I'm not into the genre, ie. R'n'B it will all sound the same to me' This might sound like bragging or smth not so nice, but I just wanted to state that no matter music genre, quality or what ever, I am perfectly able to hear all variations and sound and feelings. Be it jazz, rap, hip-hop, soul, fink or dunk. I am not able to not hear everything in a track. And I blame psy for this super human power of mine I've always loved sounds and tones since I was little, but when I got introduced to the psychedelic experience and the psytrance sounds around my ear got a massive tune up, I became much more avare of the details in e piece of music. I know I'm writing like a crow now and maybe for some it will be hard to understand or swallow what I mean, but I suspect some of you will understand perfectly what I mean. yo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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