The best trance ever was made before 2000...

[Elysium]

I can see how it is a problem, but to say it is a equal cause of de-trancification of the psy-trance is imo an overstatement (trying to see beyond individual preferences). Mixing is "just" a part of a set, the content (the tracks) are in my book what really determines the "TRANCE" of a scene, I mean does some lousy dj/bookers determine a scene? And if your theory should be correct were there ever a "TRANCE" scene (by your definition)? If not, then we better find the drums, steel-skinned hands and bonfires and start some real trance

 

 

I dont see it as an overstatement as both things totally ruin the flow, experience and "state of trance". I know I would leave the dance-floor on both examples so to me there's no better or worse here.

 

Yes there was a time where it was important for the DJs and people on the dance-floor to maintain a steady beat in order to get into a state of trance. Actually the music was called Techno Trance and came before Psytrance/Goatrance.

 

I am indeed looking beyond personal preferences here. I am debating that the "Trance scene" at some point lost it's "Trance" (equally within the music and among the Djs and artists - It usually goes hand in hand) and people have not been bothered to find the way back to the roots ever since. My point is that most of the music in this scene is not "Trance" anymore (and have not been trance for a long long time) and the majority of the Djs, artists, organizers and audience does not know the meaning of the word "Trance".

 

Trance is just an overused term just as Goa, Boom Shankar etc. It define a genre with the wrong name IMO.

[Drosophila]

So what you say is that "true trance" is dead and has been for a very long time (early 90ties?). I can follow your point, I don't agree, but I guess we all approach this subject differently. I might have a less sensitive "out of trance" thresh-hold than you?! What I do agree on is that trance is totally overused and often used out of content, but I guess that goes for a lot of terminologies, words loosing their original sense...

[abasio]

I really love how the author uses the words, "DJ and without beat-matching," in the same sentence. THAT IS NOT A DJ. THE FIRST THING A DJ LEARNS IS TO BEAT-MATCH. SO, THESE HIPPIES WERE LIKE DRAG QUEENS, EXCEPT, MANY THOUGHT THEY WERE ACTUALLY WOMAN.

 

You must not know much about the history of the DJ then. Beat-matching is relatively new and in the old parties in the 60's and 70's a DJ would often just let one track finish before putting on another

[Elysium]

So what you say is that "true trance" is dead and has been for a very long time (early 90ties?). I can follow your point, I don't agree, but I guess we all approach this subject differently. I might have a less sensitive "out of trance" thresh-hold than you?! What I do agree on is that trance is totally overused and often used out of content, but I guess that goes for a lot of terminologies, words loosing their original sense...

 

I dont say true Trance is dead. I am sure there are artists out there that still follow the vision of trance. I even think some of the true meaning of trance can be found in some of today's Techno (The hypnotic percussive non stopping kind - not psytechno!!!!)

 

Trance is my passion and has been since I can remember. Of course I have not always been true to the term myself in my own music but then again I am not the one calling all my music trance

 

I just wish this scene would acknowledge it's roots instead of running away from it. But I know it's Utopia

[Elysium]

You must not know much about the history of the DJ then. Beat-matching is relatively new and in the old parties in the 60's and 70's a DJ would often just let one track finish before putting on another

 

Of course but they did not call the music trance and did not intend people to reach a state of trance. It's here the difference is found

[abasio]

Of course but they did not call the music trance and did not intend people to reach a state of trance. It's here the difference is found

 

Sorry, yeah, my comment was not actually in reference to trance but just how the djmaxfactor believes you can't be called a DJ without beat-matching. I don't beat-match when I play ambient

 

Of course good mixing skills is desireable however I'll still take good tunes & weak mixing over great mixing of shit tunes anyday

[Elysium]

I'll still take good tunes & weak mixing over great mixing of shit tunes anyday

 

I don't settle on 2nd best. I demand good music and great DJ skills. After all you pay these people to be professional

[abasio]

I don't settle on 2nd best. I demand good music and great DJ skills. After all you pay these people to be professional

 

Well obviously I love great (not good mate great is what you need if you don't settle for second best) music and great DJ skills and to be honest that is what I usually get at events I pay for.

Thinking of the free local nights though I can't expect world reknowned DJ skills but fantastic tracks is often on the menu

[Ormion]

I guess I am the only who don't give a shit about beatmixing and trasitions.

Personally the only thing I demand from a good mix is a great selection of tracks.

[LuisBSF]

it is nothing compared to actual tracks with constant breaks in the flow!

This.

[@reyu]

I guess I am the only who don't give a shit about beatmixing and trasitions.

Personally the only thing I demand from a good mix is a great selection of tracks.

 

I can understand. But a great mix should have both. It's an addition, the icing on the cake. Especially in this genre where it's all focussed on the in-trance effect.

[Guest nectarios]

I'm not saying that these groups, labels etc are responsible for anything. Like you said every music has its turns and minimalism was one of them. I'm just saying that before Full On there was minimalism and how much it influenced artists. In just 2 years everything from the old days (melodies, multiple layers, euphoria, maximality, mystical samples etc) dissapeared.

Ticon, Son Kite and them people did not have nearly the influence/effect full-on had on the trance scene. Astrix and the clones were all over the place. The quantity of israeli full on releases (and bookings at parties) was many times bigger than the scando minimal/prog sound. That was evident in Greece but especially in the UK as I moved to the UK in 2000. I remember checking out the party flyers at Camden's PsyDMT was like checking out Hommega's, back catalog.

 

Peace out.

 

You must not know much about the history of the DJ then. Beat-matching is relatively new and in the old parties in the 60's and 70's a DJ would often just let one track finish before putting on another

 

Wrong. Beat-matching is not new at all.

In 1969, American club DJ Francis Grasso popularized beatmatching at New York's Sanctuary nightclub. Beatmatching is the technique of creating seamless transitions between records with matching beats, or tempos. Grasso also developed slip-cuing, the technique of holding a record still while the turntable is revolving underneath, releasing it at the desired moment to create a sudden transition from the previous record.

 

In 1973, Jamaican-born DJ Kool Herc, widely regarded as the "godfather of hip-hop culture," performed at block parties in his Bronx neighborhood and developed a technique of mixing back and forth between two identical records to extend the rhythmic instrumental segment, or break. Turntablism, the art of using turntables not only to play music but to manipulate sound and create original music, began to develop.

Peace out.

[PRS]

I lean more to the Elysium side for once but only a little

[Ormion]

Ticon, Son Kite and them people did not have nearly the influence/effect full-on had on the trance scene. Astrix and the clones were all over the place. The quantity of israeli full on releases (and bookings at parties) was many times bigger than the scando minimal/prog sound. That was evident in Greece but especially in the UK as I moved to the UK in 2000. I remember checking out the party flyers at Camden's PsyDMT was like checking out Hommega's, back catalog.

 

I was talking about minimalism as a trend. The groups I mentioned were the new wave of prog/psytrance, but overall the whole scene from 2000 to 2001 made a massive minimal turn. I remember going to parties and everything was too minimal and proggy.

Then Full On came and took over everything as you said. This is why I believe that the period 2000-2003 was the worst for psytrance.

[djmaxfactor1995]

Beatmatching is a disc jockey technique of pitch shifting or timestretching a track to match its tempo to that of the currently playing track e.g. the kicks and snares in two house records hit at the same time when both records are played simultaneously. Beatmatching is a component of mixing which employs beatmatching combined with equalization, attention to phrasing and track selection in an attempt to make a single mix that flows together and has a good structure.

 

The technique was developed to keep the people from leaving the dancefloor at the end of the song. These days it is considered basic among DJs in electronic dance music genres, and it is standard practice in clubs to keep the constant beat through the night, even if DJs change in the middle.

 

Beatmatching is no longer considered a novelty, and new digital mixers have made the technique much easier to master.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Beatmatching

 

I don't mean to sound like a dick. But, I know myself. I know that I am a kind, generous, and loving human. I, also know that I am an asshole. I know that trying to change who I am is unnatural. Life is about energy and balance. You can't know how wonderful something is until you know how terrible something is...yin and yang.

 

First, I would like to commend you on researching your reply before posting. Unfortunately, you did not research enough. So, not only do you not know much about DJ'ing. You look like a fool for submitting a condesending and innacurate comment. There are many different kinds of DJ's. There is the Radio DJ, Mobile DJ, Club DJ, Hip-Hop DJ, and the Reggae DJ. We are obviously discussing the club dj.

 

A radio DJ does not beatmatch, they play songs consectutively. So, are you comparing a radio dj to a club dj? (Actually, I would prefer if Goa Gil was replaced by a jukebox). And you also, stated the DJ "often" played one record after another. "Often?" So, what did they do when they did not play a record after another?

 

 

Remember, this site is geared toward profesionals and enthusiasts. If I were to guess, I would think you were an enthusiast. In that case, if I were you, I would not reply. Unless, you had something enthusiastic to say.

 

 

Elysium and I are professionals...so you may want to take what we say more seriously. We have first hand knowledge and experience with this topic.

 

 

 

EVERYONE...I WILL CUT & Paste part of my original post: "... HAS CAUSED PSYTRANCE TO BE LIKE JURASSIC PARK. I never said that psytrance was dead. I said that we were all responsible for letting Goa Gil and his minions control the way that psytrance was performed. I said that the evolutionary path of psytrance in the latter half of the nineties became extinct, and that a different form of psytrance had mutated from it. So, it is not dead. I is just not the same. And, I agree with Elysium that in order to experience trance music, you can't be pulled out of your trance, violently every 5-8 minutes. It is the art of mixing the right records together, on time, and even harmonosiouly. That means not only does the Dj want to beat match the mix he or she wants the two songs to be in the same key. I practised for hours putting a good mixset together.

 

I would also like to add to Elysium's comments. Psytrance is very challenging to mix. Most record composers would use a different key. I love mixing halucinogen songs, most of his sonsgs were in the same key, had similar percussion, and a trademark gate effect that he would use to make any track have that stutter effect. But it was rythmically brilliant. Pleadeans, Etnica, and Total Eclipse were very similar, I think that they may have been the same artists. I am not sure. These songs were masterul. So, some songs you could mix together like house music and some you had to mix on the ambient parts, but it still had to be on time.

 

You are right about one thing, I don't know that much about the history of DJing. But, one thing I did read, NO TRAINWRECKING!

 

"...Beatmatching (adjusting the speed that two tunes play at so that their bass drumbeats constantly play at the same time) is the mechanical aspect that's regarded as the core foundation of the club DJ. Given enough time, patience and practice, anyone can learn these basics." --DJing for Dummies.

You must not know much about the history of the DJ then. Beat-matching is relatively new and in the old parties in the 60's and 70's a DJ would often just let one track finish before putting on another

 

[Rotwang]

[snip oversized quotations from WP]

 

None of the material you quoted had any bearing whatsoever on what Abasio wrote.

 

First, I would like to commend you on researching your reply before posting. Unfortunately, you did not research enough. So, not only do you not know much about DJ'ing. You look like a fool for submitting a condesending and innacurate comment.

Do you have any evidence that his comment was inaccurate?

 

Remember, this site is geared toward profesionals and enthusiasts. If I were to guess, I would think you were an enthusiast. In that case, if I were you, I would not reply. Unless, you had something enthusiastic to say.

 

 

Elysium and I are professionals...so you may want to take what we say more seriously. We have first hand knowledge and experience with this topic.

So does Abasio.

[Elysium]

I do not compare a House, Tech House or Trance DJ (Who should know how to beatmix while sleeping) to a DJ spinning chill-out where the focus is on a different flow. It's two different worlds. I would even ay it's more difficult to spin chill-out simply because you need to take much more care in the details (its easy to mess up the mixing) than doing a Beatmix. However I also focus on harmonic beat-mixing which takes beat-mixing to a whole different level.

[djmaxfactor1995]

Who is Abasio?

 

 

 

None of the material you quoted had any bearing whatsoever on what Abasio wrote.

Do you have any evidence that his comment was inaccurate?

So does Abasio.

 

[Penzoline]

Who is Abasio?

 

The person you quoted...

[Guest nectarios]

I was talking about minimalism as a trend. The groups I mentioned were the new wave of prog/psytrance, but overall the whole scene from 2000 to 2001 made a massive minimal turn. I remember going to parties and everything was too minimal and proggy.

Then Full On came and took over everything as you said. This is why I believe that the period 2000-2003 was the worst for psytrance.

 

I remember things differently, but then again I was not in Greece from 2000 to 2007, just know what parties where up from my mates. Skazi was like the "mayor" of Salonika, GMS, Infected Mushroom, Astrix and the clones where playing on repeat. Same in London...but that is what I saw from checking parties in Greece from forums. The only parties I attended were the Sola Luna 2001 (the best by far) and Samothraki Dance Festival 2002, were the amount of minimal to full on was like 30% to 70% considering both main stage and prog dancefloors. I mean the prog dancefloor was small in them festivals and the main stage was packed with thousands when full-on acts were on...gives an example of how much influence full on had and how much effect minimalism had on trance music. Not testament to it I must say, but I experienced things differently than you, especially outside of Greece.

 

Peace out.

[Guest nectarios]

Do you have any evidence that his comment was inaccurate?

 

 

 

It is a well know fact that mixing between records was a common technique in parties in the Bronx. Jumping from one record to another something that people called "hip-hopping". I know this music has nothing to do with psy-trance, but people did mix records well before trance DJs came along. If we had to wait for someone to mix tunes in psy-trance then we could say its something that is relatively new, although I remember people mixing trance 12" in the mid '90s psy-trance/goa parties. But people playing dance music, did mix records in the '70s and it was an important aspect to the parties back then. Which is what Elysium MaxFactor are telling you. DJ Kool Herc is well known, he is the evidence to the argument.

 

Peace out.

[Anoebis]

Interesting discussion... And my views are sometimes the same as others, sometimes different...

 

First of all, I do not agree to the saying that all best trance was from before 2000... Actually I think it has alot to do with the amount of released music. If you for instance love "old school" sound, you had 200-300 cds a year before 2000... Today you have maximum 20-30 cds in that style. Which means 10 times less... It would be logical that 10 times less "killer" albums are released! Which means maybe 5-10 a year? So I think it has a lot to do with quantity instead of quality...

 

Second thing: people saying the best trance was made before 2000 are people that "only" dig old school goa-trance. I am one of those lovers as well, but after 2000 I was so fulfilled with love for music because of fantastic ambient and great super psychedelic organic forest trance... Which means some types of trance had their height for sure after 2000... And I am happy about it

 

In the end I can only say it IS true we had a black time for trance around 2003-2004, but things are really becoming better! I said it to a friend yesterday, it is the first time in many many years I wanted to buy 6 new-released psychedelic cds in 1 month

 

So what did destroy the trance-scene? Evolution I guess... It's a logical thing, as otherwise things will stay the same... But in evolution the bad things die, and the good things will survive, so I am sure we are going back to the good things

 

Last but not least... The dj-ing thing... I agree with Elysium! Beat mixing is essentiel for a trance-feeling... and not doing that these days is rubbish.

 

My 0.02€

[Guest nectarios]

Interesting discussion... And my views are sometimes the same as others, sometimes different...

 

First of all, I do not agree to the saying that all best trance was from before 2000... Actually I think it has alot to do with the amount of released music. If you for instance love "old school" sound, you had 200-300 cds a year before 2000... Today you have maximum 20-30 cds in that style. Which means 10 times less... It would be logical that 10 times less "killer" albums are released! Which means maybe 5-10 a year? So I think it has a lot to do with quantity instead of quality...

 

Second thing: people saying the best trance was made before 2000 are people that "only" dig old school goa-trance. I am one of those lovers as well, but after 2000 I was so fulfilled with love for music because of fantastic ambient and great super psychedelic organic forest trance... Which means some types of trance had their height for sure after 2000... And I am happy about it

 

 

There was a lot more than just old school goa up until 2000. Flying Rhino, Blue Room, Atomic Records, Dragonfly, Twisted, Spiral Traxx, Etnicanet records. Some of them labels released goa classics, but their late '90s up to 2001 output was far from the typical old school goa sound of the early/mid '90s.

 

Peace out.

[djmaxfactor1995]

I would have loved to experience psytrance outside of the U.S. But, I must admit San Francisco did much better with live shows than dj set (at least with psytrance). I remember a small club that was at the south end of Mission. I can't really remember attending...but I know they got GMS, Hallucinogen, Infected Mushroom, and others to perform. Those hippies were able tto pull some hot acts. I remember one sub-party that my buddy and Ivo did at 1015 Folsom. We called it Psyko Disko -- after the two artists -- we thought it was a beautifully fitting name for a psytrance club set. Apparently the hippie's pulled this Copyright B.S... on us and remember, I "faxed them in Australia" asking permission to use their name for our party. We were so nervous...but Steve Psyko and Fred Disko were so cool. They were just as excited as we were. They gave us full permission and thanked us. I don't think I will ever forget the look on those hippie faces. Priceless. It was like their attempt at hiding the truth had been exposed. These artists weren't some all-powerful demi-gods, they were just like us. It was those neo "hindi-hippies" that made it seem as if they could only communicate. Thanks, again Steve and Fred... I will post the flyer from that party, when I can. That was 1996 or early 1997.

 

 

 

I remember things differently, but then again I was not in Greece from 2000 to 2007, just know what parties where up from my mates. Skazi was like the "mayor" of Salonika, GMS, Infected Mushroom, Astrix and the clones where playing on repeat. Same in London...but that is what I saw from checking parties in Greece from forums. The only parties I attended were the Sola Luna 2001 (the best by far) and Samothraki Dance Festival 2002, were the amount of minimal to full on was like 30% to 70% considering both main stage and prog dancefloors. I mean the prog dancefloor was small in them festivals and the main stage was packed with thousands when full-on acts were on...gives an example of how much influence full on had and how much effect minimalism had on trance music. Not testament to it I must say, but I experienced things differently than you, especially outside of Greece.

 

Peace out.

 

[abasio]

I don't mean to sound like a dick. But, I know myself. I know that I am a kind, generous, and loving human. I, also know that I am an asshole. I know that trying to change who I am is unnatural. Life is about energy and balance. You can't know how wonderful something is until you know how terrible something is...yin and yang.

 

First, I would like to commend you on researching your reply before posting. Unfortunately, you did not research enough. So, not only do you not know much about DJ'ing. You look like a fool for submitting a condesending and innacurate comment. There are many different kinds of DJ's. There is the Radio DJ, Mobile DJ, Club DJ, Hip-Hop DJ, and the Reggae DJ. We are obviously discussing the club dj.

 

A radio DJ does not beatmatch, they play songs consectutively. So, are you comparing a radio dj to a club dj? (Actually, I would prefer if Goa Gil was replaced by a jukebox). And you also, stated the DJ "often" played one record after another. "Often?" So, what did they do when they did not play a record after another?

 

 

Remember, this site is geared toward profesionals and enthusiasts. If I were to guess, I would think you were an enthusiast. In that case, if I were you, I would not reply. Unless, you had something enthusiastic to say.

 

 

Elysium and I are professionals...so you may want to take what we say more seriously. We have first hand knowledge and experience with this topic.

 

 

Well, if you remember the original statement you made:

"I really love how the author uses the words, "DJ and without beat-matching," in the same sentence. THAT IS NOT A DJ. THE FIRST THING A DJ LEARNS IS TO BEAT-MATCH. SO, THESE HIPPIES WERE LIKE DRAG QUEENS, EXCEPT, MANY THOUGHT THEY WERE ACTUALLY WOMAN."

To which I replied that DJs did not always beat match. My statement holds true even if there were beat-matchers around at the time I stated (although I am sure it was still a minority in the 60's & 70's). In this post here you have managed to contradict yourself referring to the radio DJ who doesn't beat-match even though you previously implied that DJ & "without beat-matching" in the same sentence is wrong to do.