Smashing what opponent?

[Trolsk]

My respect for Infected Mushroom would have been regained if their new music video featured clips and photos of innocent civilians that got killed by the Israeli and the Palestinians. It's possible for them to use their, um, "fame" to promote peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

 

What I am curious to understand is why political statements by Israeli psytrance acts are a taboo? Israel is a country with an actual ongoing conflict where a lot of innocent people have gotten killed, and therefor I kind of expect that the Israeli psytrance scene should use its parties to promote peace, respect and understanding, but that is not the case, as I understand.

 

The closest thing to a political statement from an Israeli act is Fatali's album cover for his album Faith.

 

There's an Astral Projection tune called Free Tibet, but to my knowledge they have never commented on the Israel and Palestine conflict.

 

My idea with this topic is not to start a heated debate about who is responsible for the conflict, please respect that. As an outsider I am curious to get some insight in to the workings of the Israeli scene, and the lack of political statements has always seemed strange to me.

[Basilisk]

Short answer: the situation is a mess. Any statement going one way or another would be misinterpreted and vilified, even by many people we consider to be well-meaning. And besides, trance is an escapist culture.

 

Example:

http://forum.isratrance.com/nasser-checkpoint-iono-music/

 

The political content of this release is virtually non-existent yet look at the reaction!

[frozen dream]

dig too deep all you get is dirty

[Elysium]

I do not want to drag myself into a dead end political debate but there are as many Political views in Israel as there are in any other Country.

 

I have seen Israeli Psytrance artists sending out political rightwing spam on example Facebook and I have seen Israeli psytrance artists speaking pro the Palestinian cause. The World is God thank not Black & White.

I agree with Basilisk that an Israeli artist would probably get into deep with political statements. Also from his own countrymen, but when that is said I think Political statements are missing in the psytrance scene. But that's my opinion of course.

 

Peace

[DaZeD]

I don't think they should give their personal opinions on sensitive issues like this, I mean, I just don't think it's a good idea

 

 

 

[supergroover]

In such a complicated situation as in israel you should not be political? But if it is about tibet or about conspiracy theories, earth polution etc etc we can?

 

i agree things could get too messy.. But it also seems we can only be political in the trance scene if it is cool. Like talking shit about bush or similar stuff (shit everybody will agree on). But if it gets too close......

[Elysium]

I will not judge anyone but give an example from own Country.

 

In Denmark we have a fascist Government these days. No empty toward different thinking people or Refugees who they imprison for up to 10 years and after send back to posiible dead, prosecution, kidnapping and suffering in Iraq. Back to a Country in deep chaos and Civil War after a War my Government started with USA. My Government breaks many International laws and is backed up by a Political party way to the far right. A Party that was formed by Neo-Nazis.

 

Last Night the Danish Police was ordered by the Government to raid a Church (Yes a Church) and capture all Iraqi families who had asked for sanctuary in the Church as their last hope to stay in Denmark. The Children and Women was spared but put on the Street. The Men The Police also beat up non violent people who were having a sit-down outside the Church. This whole episode mad me feel so ashamed of my Country and had me thinking about the Crystal Night in Germany in the 30's.

 

So to sum it up. My Government is made up from real criminal scumbags!

 

What does our Authors, Painters, Actors, Musicians etc. do? They protest and become Activists! Trentemoller and other Danish big International artists and Dj’s are members of a Support group toward Iraqi refugees who all are supposed to be shipped back to Iraq after sitting 10 years in Danish Concentration Camps (That’s the best word to describe the camps). I am also involved in this Group and am proud to see my fellow Countrymen take a stand against racism and Government brutality (Which seem to be equal cruel in Denmark as any undemocratic Apartheid State these days).

 

I know many many other countries have artists and personalities getting involved in similar groups.

 

I do not in any way compare our Country's Political situation with Israel/Palestine but maybe artist’s activism in many other Democratic Countries could inspire the many Israeli artists to also speak up against unjust when they see it.

[Elysium]

I will not judge anyone but give an example from my own Country.

 

In Denmark we have a fascist Government these days. No empty whatsoever toward different thinking people or Refugees who they imprison up to 10 years (with no or very little help mentally – many are suffering from Posttraumatic illness) and after send back to possible dead, prosecution, kidnapping and suffering in Iraq. Back to a Country in deep chaos and Civil War after a War my Government started with USA. My Government breaks many International laws and is backed up by a Political party way to the far right. A Party that was formed by Neo-Nazis.

 

Last Night the Danish Police was ordered by the Government to raid a Church (Yes a Church) and capture all Iraqi families who had asked for sanctuary in the Church as their last hope to stay in Denmark. The Children and Women was “kindly” spared but put out on the Street. The Men was dragged away like Cattle. The Police also beat up non violent people who were having a sit-down outside the Church. This whole episode made me feel so ashamed of my Country and had me thinking about the Crystal Night in Germany in the 30's. A very famous Danish Jewish Politician in Denmark also compares the Political situation to the one happening in Germany in the 30’s. This is how far out Denmark has become.

 

To sum it up. My Government is made up from real criminal scumbags!

 

What does our Authors, Painters, Actors, Musicians etc. do? They protest and become Activists! Trentemoller and other Danish big International artists and Dj’s are members of a Support group toward Iraqi refugees who all are supposed to be shipped back to Iraq after sitting 10 years in Danish Concentration Camps (That’s the best word to describe the camps). I am also involved in this Group and am proud to see my fellow Countrymen take a stand against racism and Government brutality (Which seem to be equal cruel in Denmark as any undemocratic Apartheid State these days).

 

I know many other countries have artists and personalities getting involved in similar groups.

 

I do not in any way compare our Country's Political situation with the Israel/Palestine conflict but maybe International artist’s activism in many other Democratic Countries could inspire the many Israeli artists to also speak up against unjust when they see it.

 

 

PS! To say that Bono from U2 do not make a difference is not fair to the man and his volunteering staff’s dedication to change the World. His activism has as an example made Western Countries erases debts to 3rd World Countries. If that's not a major improvement then I do not know what is?

 

The point is that artists do have a very powerful voice and should use it to try to change things IF they feel they want to get involved. They should not feel any pressure to not speak their Mind just because some judgmental people criticize their use of their voices!

 

My long 2 cents

[supergroover]

What does our Authors, Painters, Actors, Musicians etc. do? They protest and become Activists! Trentemoller and other Danish big International artists and Dj’s are members of a Support group toward Iraqi refugees who all are supposed to be shipped back to Iraq after sitting 10 years in Danish Concentration Camps (That’s the best word to describe the camps). I am also involved in this Group and am proud to see my fellow Countrymen take a stand against racism and Government brutality (Which seem to be equal cruel in Denmark as any undemocratic Apartheid State these days).

nice one man! As an artist you can have some exposure. So you can make people aware of what is happening. Wish you all the best!

 

I do in any way compare our Country's Political situation with Israel/Palestine but maybe artist’s activism in many other Democratic Countries could inspire the many Israeli artists to also speak up against unjust when they see it.

You meant to write "I do not"?

[Elysium]

You meant to write "I do not"?

Yes edited it

[visine]

Look at Bono ffs, he thinks he can change the world, but come on, be real, he doesn't make much of a difference at all.

 

I disagree. It's the kind of thinking you display here that limits the magnitude of change of people like Bono would like to implement.

If quality of life of one single person is imporved, kudos to him. Many will agree Bono and his work had an effect on may, one way or the other.

 

I don't see a problem with the artist's political activism. I may disagree with his/her political ideas but like his/her music and vice versa unless

they embed some cheesy/disagreeable slogans into their songs.

I remember some song having a sample ".....and if you don't like Fascism, don't listen to Industrial music" ...the song sounds OK but the sample's kind of ruined it for me.

 

Some other dude used "keep it cool" in his track which was much more saddle, agreeable and .....well....cool...so kudos to him

[Veracohr]

Politics goes fits well with some types of music, but not all. Whatever IM is these days, I don't think it's one of those types.

[Trolsk]

And besides, trance is an escapist culture.

There is no denying that there are escapist elements in trance culture, but in my opinion that is not the purpose, but the side effect of being in a trance state or having a psychedelic experience. For me trance and the psychedelic experience is about waking up and seeing the world in a new light, the opposite of escapism.

[Trolsk]

I do not want to drag myself into a dead end political debate but there are as many Political views in Israel as there are in any other Country.

It is sad that the Israeli artist do not choose to express their political views.

 

Back in the 1960's psychedelic culture and the movement against the Vietnam war were one and the same, and psychedelics was one way of making people realize the meaningless of war. Fast forward 40 years and it seems to be all about escapism. That might explain the rise of the easy digestible neo full on sound and ecstasy in Israel: consumerism for a traumatized generation.

 

I can recommend the documentary The Attack of the Happy People about ecstasy consumtion in Israel.

[Trolsk]

In such a complicated situation as in israel you should not be political? But if it is about tibet or about conspiracy theories, earth polution etc etc we can?

 

i agree things could get too messy.. But it also seems we can only be political in the trance scene if it is cool. Like talking shit about bush or similar stuff (shit everybody will agree on). But if it gets too close......

Spot on!

[DaZeD]

Politics goes fits well with some types of music, but not all. Whatever IM is these days, I don't think it's one of those types.

Ok, that sounds a lot better then what I said in my previous post, I apologize for my harshness, that was uncalled for, but that is more or less what I mean, if IM would talk about political issues that would sound like a bad joke (to me), also, I do think it's a very sensitive topic, people are getting killed for opinions like that.

 

Conspiracies and Tibet, Bush aren't necessary for me either, it's goatrance, I don't look for political messages in goatrance, I search for magic, peace, trance, emotion, I listen to that music to get away from all the misery in the world just for a while.Everyone knows allready what's going on in the world, we don't need that repeated over and over, unless it would really make a difference.

 

I'm not ignorant, if I wanted to hear political statements I'll search for them, not in psytrance, but in the media, not mainstream media either.If I really want to hear how fucked up our world is I'll go back to death metal, I like that many psytrance fans have the same ideologies and political opinions, but they have that allready, they don't NEED to get that pointed out for them, they are usually not that ignorant, but OK, I start to understand why you said IM, considering the audience they attract.

 

The last thing I want is hearing political statements in goatrance, if people want to throw parties to support certain ideologies, like to support Palestinia or Tibet, that's very good, I'll support that, but everyone on this planet knows allready what's going on in those countries, if someone care's enough he'll inform him/herself about the situation anyway, psytrance is psytrance, you can disagree all you want, it's my personal opinion.

 

I do have to take back my comment on Bono, I agree, the man is doing his best, but IM is no Bono.

And psytrance is no rock music.

[Time_Trap]

It is sad that the Israeli artist do not choose to express their political views.

 

Back in the 1960's psychedelic culture and the movement against the Vietnam war were one and the same, and psychedelics was one way of making people realize the meaningless of war. Fast forward 40 years and it seems to be all about escapism. That might explain the rise of the easy digestible neo full on sound and ecstasy in Israel: consumerism for a traumatized generation.

 

I can recommend the documentary The Attack of the Happy People about ecstasy consumtion in Israel.

mdma should result in love,empathy and softer ego though , no ?

[Trolsk]

mdma should result in love,empathy and softer ego though , no ?

Psychedelics are not a shortcut to a constant change of behavior, they can however make you aware of alternative paths, but when the trip ends you are the one that will have to choose to walk a new path. If you choose a new path it will require constant practice. If you choose not to, then it is escapism.

 

For any one interested in psychedelics and change, and for post-psychedelic users pondering their experiences, I can recommend Zig Zag Zen: Buddhism and Psychedelics.

[DaZeD]

Psychedelics are not a shortcut to a constant change of behavior, they can however make you aware of alternative paths, but when the trip ends you are the one that will have to choose to walk a new path. If you choose a new path it will require constant practice. If you choose not to, then it is escapism.

I liked that, I've red it three times.

 

Thanks for the recommendation.

[Psyvox]

I can recommend the documentary The Attack of the Happy People about ecstasy consumtion in Israel.

That is one brilliant documentary on the subject of drug use. A lot of very experienced, and intelligent fellows state their opinions regarding the current situation of drug consumption.

 

I personally was very impressed with the points presented in this documentary, and thoroughly agreed with most of them.

 

I think that saying this documentary is about ecstasy consumption in Israel is a gross simplification -- this documentary is a complex, elevated and sometimes harsh depiction of the more subtle issues underlying the drug consumption in our modern societies; I think they only use the ecstasy & Israel thing as an example to prove their points.

 

I urge everyone to watch this documentary.

[supergroover]

I personally was very impressed with the points presented in this documentary, and thoroughly agreed with most of them.

Which ones? there are people against the use and pro

[Psyvox]

It would be unfair to simply the documentary to a "pro drug use" or an "against drug use" viewpoint. It offers a homogenous, yet complex viewpoint on the matter of drug consumption in the modern society; all the perspectives of the people in that video have their place in the overall, final viewpoint of the director.

In spite of how carefully the director arguments his stand, some aspects of the overall viewpoint might still be debatable; however, I do agree with the general point of the documentary.

[psytones]

My respect for Infected Mushroom would have been regained if their new music video featured clips and photos of innocent civilians that got killed by the Israeli and the Palestinians. It's possible for them to use their, um, "fame" to promote peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

 

What I am curious to understand is why political statements by Israeli psytrance acts are a taboo? Israel is a country with an actual ongoing conflict where a lot of innocent people have gotten killed, and therefor I kind of expect that the Israeli psytrance scene should use its parties to promote peace, respect and understanding, but that is not the case, as I understand.

 

The closest thing to a political statement from an Israeli act is Fatali's album cover for his album Faith.

 

There's an Astral Projection tune called Free Tibet, but to my knowledge they have never commented on the Israel and Palestine conflict.

 

My idea with this topic is not to start a heated debate about who is responsible for the conflict, please respect that. As an outsider I am curious to get some insight in to the workings of the Israeli scene, and the lack of political statements has always seemed strange to me.

I don't think it's IM's responsibility to make a music video with strong political messages or video footage .. I think a couple of IM tracks has been with a ,,political" statement or sublime action on that area. In their Vicious Delicious album, a part of it has this theme going on, think it's the fourth track that starts with bombs, (or the third?) and the following track has paparazzi type of camera blitz sounds taking pictures of the catastrophe which is the isra/pale conflict/war. I don't want to write to much about it but the Israeli people are very aware of their and the Palestinian situation and i think and hope most of these wish for peace. . I am sure in ways you or I can't always find/hear/see they, the Israeli artist (I presume it's a topic narrowed down to Isratrance?) have, if they do these tasks you wish for, their own way of doing it.

 

And I agree, to listen to PsyTrance music filled with strong political stuff is just wrong, fine, call your track Free Tibet (Fuzzion also made a very nice PsyTech EP (also released on Chronika III), make it have a special psychedelic vibe that connects to a Tibetian energy or smth, this is Great!!. But I'm not very interested in being in a trip with Vegetable’s album Free Thinkers Are Dangoures cool and fat music overloaded with, yes, important messages but still wrong, samples. Or maybe the latest Xenomorphic album, haven't heard it.

 

Rock and punk (as a good example) is a better base for these things imho. In Iran you got some cool enough Heavy Metal stuff going on underground, since it's very much like almost totally illegal

 

You do have a Youtube clip of Dali btw where she speaks about the conflict: lol: she makes dunkadunk pietrance, right?

 

I guess they should promote more peace instead of Pepsi at parties though .

 

For me, i want my EDM to be something out of this world, and war isn't out of this world for me.

 

Just as I don't want to listen to a South Park person screaming in agony that someone is raping him, i'm not very interested in being reminded that the world is a shitty place when listening to good EDM

 

Zig Zag Zen: Buddhism on Psychedelics

 

I liked that, I've red it three times.

 

Thanks for the recommendation.

I agree on all your obvious words except your larger view on IM =P. And this Zig Zag Zen book reads interesting, seems it has some words that explains good the natural.

 

bOm::