Oforia: Another one bites the dust

[Ormion]

I'm fed up with all the elitism and arrogance towards artists like this.

 

Seriously, what's wrong with full-on and other genres like this? Artists can choose to make what music they like, and people like Ofer and IM have probably gone mainstream since there's just not a market for the psytrance we like any more.

 

And not all of it's that bad...

 

I didn't criticize Ofer for making Full On. I like Full On.

But this specific track is vomit.

[CosmoNaughty]

I just don't get why producers make this rubbish with vocoder vocals in it cos everyone seems to think it's shit.

[Agneton]

Not everyone, just 300 people on forums

[Elysium]

I do not think it’s anyone’s business to criticize an artist’s choice of direction in music. That is solely up to the artist to chose.

 

When that is said I do think its ok for people to express their disappointment in the QUALITY of the music. But it has to be done in a constructive way and not as done in a few cases based on feelings.

 

As an artist I value criticism to a point. I do not mind people telling me they do not like my music IF they also say why and criticize my music in a constructive way. If they just say “It sucks” then I cannot use their opinion at all.

 

So there is a fine line in the way you criticize an artist’s work.

 

Its not appropriate for anyone to criticize music they did not pay for but still keep on their Desktop. But that’s another debate

[Ormion]

Well opinions are made to be expressed otherwise what's the point of the forums?

 

-You like the new Oforia?

-Mmmhmhmmhhhmm

 

Well you have to say something.

 

 

I used to love Ofer's music (who doesn't) and I know that all those years he produces full on which is fine by me, but when I listened to this sample I was O-M-G!

[mephistopheles]

Actually, I like the song "Return of the machines". Of course it's 'a millions miles away' from his extraordenary stuff he used to produce (e.g. "Delirious & "Pigs in Space") but it's imo not that bad....

 

This one is taken from his album "Inner Twist" from 2006 released on BNE (what else...hehe...)

 

Anyone hoping that Ofer will return to the "Goa-scene".........keep hoping......like me.......hahahaha

[Lemmiwinks]

meh this is just more proof that dubstep is the psytrance of the new decade, just the same way that trance was the new rock of the 90s. Remember how rock music went to shit with Van Halen and the hair rock movement? Well the exact same thing is happening to psytrance today... just abandon ship before it completely sinks, there are plenty more creative underground scenes around

[Ormion]

meh this is just more proof that dubstep is the psytrance of the new decade, just the same way that trance was the new rock of the 90s. Remember how rock music went to shit with Van Halen and the hair rock movement? Well the exact same thing is happening to psytrance today... just abandon ship before it completely sinks, there are plenty more creative underground scenes around

 

1. Dubstep has nothing to do with psytrance. It's like compare jazz with country. Psytrance is about energy, fractal synaethesia and melodies. What dubstep has to do with it?

2. Dubstep sucks.

3. Creative undreground scene? Psytrance is the answer.

[Lemmiwinks]

1. Dubstep has nothing to do with psytrance. It's like compare jazz with country. Psytrance is about energy, fractal synaethesia and melodies. What dubstep has to do with it?

 

hehe yeah I hear that argument all the time... but tell me this: what did trance have to do with rock music when it took over? Not much... that's just how the Universe changes, in quantum leaps rather than linear progressions. Look, I didn't know much about dubstep until last summer when they played it at... VuuV aka the mother of all trance festivals... if that's not proof enough that dubstep is taking over our scene, then I don't know what is.

 

As for creativity, well dubstep is ALL about being creative, and only following some very loose rules, pretty much the same as trance music used to be in the very early 90s when it started to divide into different subgenres. Remember the days when it was normal to have downtempo and uptempo tracks all together on a trance comp? I do...

 

 

3. Creative undreground scene? Psytrance is the answer.

ha yes well if by being creative you mean finding ways of transforming a scene that used to be a symbol of anti-consumerism and spirituality into the exact opposite then yeah, I must admit that psytrance artists are pretty creative lol

[Ormion]

hehe yeah I hear that argument all the time... but tell me this: what did trance have to do with rock music when it took over? Not much... that's just how the Universe changes, in quantum leaps rather than linear progressions. Look, I didn't know much about dubstep until last summer when they played it at... VuuV aka the mother of all trance festivals... if that's not proof enough that dubstep is taking over our scene, then I don't know what is.

 

As for creativity, well dubstep is ALL about being creative, and only following some very loose rules, pretty much the same as trance music used to be in the very early 90s when it started to divide into different subgenres. Remember the days when it was normal to have downtempo and uptempo tracks all together on a trance comp? I do...

 

What I mean is simple: How someone who followed goatrance/psytrance for years and love this music for a reason can abandon psytrance to follow a music genre that has nothing to do with psy?

I can understand someone listening both psy and dubstep (and dozens of other genres), but how dubstep can be the next psytrance?

I'm a psytrance follower because of the 4/4 kick energy. Has dubstep has this? No. When psytrance will die I will shift to a music that bares some similarities with psytrance. Techno, Trance, but dubstep offers me nothing similar with psytrance.I can listen to it as an alternative yes! But it will never be the next psytrance.

That's what I meant.

 

The dubstep sucks comment was personal, so don't comment on this.

 

ha yes well if by being creative you mean finding ways of transforming a scene that used to be a symbol of anti-consumerism and spirituality into the exact opposite then yeah, I must admit that psytrance artists are pretty creative lol

For like a millionth time: Why psytrance must be only the cheesy full on scene?

Do you listen anu psytrance at all or are you one of the guys that stuck in 1997? I can name you hundreds of artists that produce full quality psytrance today. If you don't like any of them it's not psytrance's problem, it's yours.

 

Maybe psytrance has died, because guys like you know only to whining, just like you're gonna whine about dubstep in 5 years from now.

 

Over and out.

[Goa Bill]

I personally don't understand how someone largely responsible for stuff like Pigs in Space (is that even true?) could make the crappy cheesefest Ofer's made on his own in the last decade or so. Doesn't make sense.

 

Yea, that Pigs in Space album is still the quintessential Goa/Proto Full-On album to me. Such a shame to hear what happened to all those pioneers. Him, Space Cat etc...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=778M5OQvlwo

[Goa Bill]

Seriously, is this the same guy that brought us these gems:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmzcU_6XiMI

 

 

[Elysium]

deleted misunderstood a point

[Elysium]

@ Lemmiwinks

 

Even though I like Dubstep it can never be the new Trance for one reason. Trance in its simple meaning is all about getting into a state of trance through repetitive beats. Dubstep does not apply to that at all. Whereas example Techno or Tech House could easily fit the term.

[Lemmiwinks]

What I mean is simple: How someone who followed goatrance/psytrance for years and love this music for a reason can abandon psytrance to follow a music genre that has nothing to do with psy?

I can understand someone listening both psy and dubstep (and dozens of other genres), but how dubstep can be the next psytrance?

I'm a psytrance follower because of the 4/4 kick energy. Has dubstep has this? No. When psytrance will die I will shift to a music that bares some similarities with psytrance. Techno, Trance, but dubstep offers me nothing similar with psytrance.I can listen to it as an alternative yes! But it will never be the next psytrance.

That's what I meant.

 

 

yes and tell me just what does Jimi Hendrix or The Doors have in common with Psykovsky? And yet our scene is the "spiritual follower" of 60/70s rock music (well at least it used to be). I remember back in the days I'd have arguments with rockers in their 40s wondering what the hell is "psychedellic" about psytrance. You can bring a million arguments on how psytrance has a 4/4 structure and dubstep has a half-measure kick and whatnot, and I agree with you, and yet the facts are here: more and more parties and venues that used to be exclusively dedicated to psytrance make more and more room for dubstep. Now of course my or your personal thoughts on dubstep have nothing to do with what is happening, it is a collective change that's going on, we can only witness it.

 

 

 

For like a millionth time: Why psytrance must be only the cheesy full on scene?

Do you listen anu psytrance at all or are you one of the guys that stuck in 1997? I can name you hundreds of artists that produce full quality psytrance today. If you don't like any of them it's not psytrance's problem, it's yours.

 

Maybe psytrance has died, because guys like you know only to whining, just like you're gonna whine about dubstep in 5 years from now.

 

Over and out.

 

 

Yes I know it's not just cheezy full-on trance but most of the other subscenes suffer from the same disease: a set of too strict rules that artists have to follow that pretty much kills most creativity out there. I've seen this happen time and time again: once an artist tries to stray away a bit too far from the "norm" then he can't even get a decent record deal anymore, so please don't come and tell me that psytrance scene is creative, such things wouldn't happen if the record lables were encouraging creativity in our scene. OK, I'm not saying it's all bad and I have a history of complaining about the scene ever since the beginning of this site and in spite all my whinings I've still found a lot of gems out there during the decade, but hey this is a psytrance forum, we're here to express our different views on music, right?

[Ormion]

@ Lemmiwinks

 

Even though I like Dubstep it can never be the new Trance for one reason. Trance in its simple meaning is all about getting into a state of trance through repetitive beats. Dubstep does not apply to that at all. Whereas example Techno or Tech House could easily fit the term.

 

Thank you, Seriously thank you.

That's exactly what I meant.

Dubstep lacks the most important feature of trance, the 4/4 kick. If trance one day dies then techno is waiting.

 

 

Anyway good night and sorry for the tone of my previous reply lemmi.

Too much coffee+eternal love for psy=emotions explosion

 

Ciao

[blargyblarg]

I do not think it’s anyone’s business to criticize an artist’s choice of direction in music. That is solely up to the artist to chose.

 

...

 

Its not appropriate for anyone to criticize music they did not pay for but still keep on their Desktop. But that’s another debate

 

People can criticize whatever they want, whether you like it or not.... Artist don't have to release their music if they're scared to hear feedback on it.

[Elysium]

People can criticize whatever they want, whether you like it or not.... Artist don't have to release their music if they're scared to hear feedback on it.

 

You totally misunderstood my point. Bravo It's got nothing to do with being scared of critisism. Who ever gave you that silly idea?

 

Of course they can do what they want to but then don't expect any artist to take them seriously. However seriously critique with a "why" they don't like the music is much more valuable than "its shit".

 

And seriously no I don't think it's any ones right to say a thing if they have downloaded the music for free, kept it on the desktop, still listen to the music but refuse to pay for it. Then they should shut it!

 

The same goes for a person getting a free meal. If you don't like it fine but don't complain!

[Ormion]

yes and tell me just what does Jimi Hendrix or The Doors have in common with Psykovsky? And yet our scene is the "spiritual follower" of 60/70s rock music (well at least it used to be). I remember back in the days I'd have arguments with rockers in their 40s wondering what the hell is "psychedellic" about psytrance.

 

I don't disagree. But goatrance may be the spiritual follower of the psychedelic rock music, but only in opinions-ideas-way of life-use of psychedelic drugs.

Musically have nothing to do with each other, hence the arguments with the rockers.

 

Now about the fact that dubstep becomes a common thing in psy parties, IMO it's a disease. Not because I dislike dubstep, but because when I go to a psytrance party I expect to listen to psytrance.

I hate when I listen to a vocal full on crap, I hate when I listen to housey prog crap, I hate it too if I listen a techno track even though I like techno.

Psy parties is for psytrance, call me close minded, but that's what I believe.

[Elysium]

Psy parties is for psytrance, call me close minded, but that's what I believe.

 

You are not close minded. There is a reason why a psytrance party is called a psytrance party and not Techno, Gabba, Dubstep etc.

[Elysium]

Actually the psytrance scene is a direct follower from the closing of the 80's and start of the 90's German trance scene which was a direct follower from American early House (Detroit) and mid/late 80's Disco. Then you got some links to European (Benelux countries) Body Music and Industrial Techno and later on some hippies going to Goa connected their rather small contribution to the scene with psychedelic rock. But if you look at the correct link Trance as an over all genre incl psytrance has got nothing or very little to do with the psychedelic rock scene from the 60's. Only the lifestyle and attitude was adopted from that era. Not really the music (except for a few artists who feel that connection).

[blargyblarg]

You totally misunderstood my point. Bravo It's got nothing to do with being scared of critisism. Who ever gave you that silly idea?

 

Of course they can do what they want to but then don't expect any artist to take them seriously. However seriously critique with a "why" they don't like the music is much more valuable than "its shit".

It might be more meaningful to explain WHY, but I highly doubt Oforia cares either way, so it's easier to all just say "it's shit" and revel in our self-righteousness. Everyone does it, subconsciously or otherwise, don't worry.

 

The same goes for a person getting a free meal. If you don't like it fine but don't complain!

What if you got a free meal that was disgusting and you'd rather not have wasted your time with it? I would complain unless I had some vested interest or they were bigger than me.

 

P.S. I meant to ask earlier... why is there a huge dangling penis on your new album cover? Serious question, could you put a loin cloth on him or make it a her so we don't have to look at that?

[Elysium]

It might be more meaningful to explain WHY, but I highly doubt Oforia cares either way, so it's easier to all just say "it's shit" and revel in our self-righteousness. Everyone does it, subconsciously or otherwise, don't worry.

 

What if you got a free meal that was disgusting and you'd rather not have wasted your time with it? I would complain unless I had some vested interest or they were bigger than me.

 

P.S. I meant to ask earlier... why is there a huge dangling penis on your new album cover? Serious question, could you put a loin cloth on him or make it a her so we don't have to look at that?

 

 

ahhh i should have known b-whale is back. Good to know so i can ignore you from now on

[Lemmiwinks]

I don't disagree. But goatrance may be the spiritual follower of the psychedelic rock music, but only in opinions-ideas-way of life-use of psychedelic drugs.

Musically have nothing to do with each other, hence the arguments with the rockers.

 

well that's just it: musically they don't have much to do with eachother and yet the "hippies" (by that I mean those who have adopted a certain spitiruality/ mentality) adopted one style after the other and that change is currently happening again IMO. I'm talking about an overall major reset-button hitting, starting stuff from ground zero, with a different set of rules, and exploring whole new dimensions. Of course there are dozens of other music styles with their own set of rules and such out there, but none of them seem to appeal to the new generation of "hippies" the same way that dubstep does.

 

 

Actually the psytrance scene is a direct follower from the closing of the 80's and start of the 90's German trance scene which was a direct follower from American early House (Detroit) and mid/late 80's Disco. Then you got some links to European (Benelux countries) Body Music and Industrial Techno and later on some hippies going to Goa connected their rather small contribution to the scene with psychedelic rock. But if you look at the correct link Trance as an over all genre incl psytrance has got nothing or very little to do with the psychedelic rock scene from the 60's. Only the lifestyle and attitude was adopted from that era. Not really the music (except for a few artists who feel that connection).

 

Well my thoughts exactly... it's always the same: artists just reach a limit where they can't advance any more with a given set of rules so then they need to start over again with something different. Hence psytrance and all its sub-genres have reached their natural limit of evolution and it is just time to let it die in peace and move to something else. And I mean this time it's a major change, the same way that electronic music took over rock music, a "mammals are replacing dinosaurs" kindof thing, not just a "small evolution" like when goatrance evolved from trance or when full-on evolved from goa. Again, I'm not just speaking of my personal feelings here, I'm just saying what I see, based on what is being played at parties, which is also the reason why I say that dubstep is the new psytrance and not techno, or hardcore or whatnot. I don't think that hardcore or detroit techno or D&B were ever played at VuuV, but dubstep has...

[blargyblarg]

I am a new reformed person, not the old bwhale.

 

I am being very respectful in my question. Are you leading a new free genitalia exposure revolution as well as a free music one too?