mars Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Hello everyone. For a few years now, a couple of very courageous members compiled your best-of selections every year and it was quite a pain. I made apromise months ago to lift that burden and make the process easier for everyone. That was quite a challenge, but I finished coding and testing it this morning. It's rough but good enough for us and there is space for improvmeent in the following years. It's finally online since this morning: http://www.psynews.org:2010/bestof/ Sorry it's on an exotic port, but it was impossible to make it work on the default http port with the other apps on that server. It will probably not respond from your workplace if there's a proxy/firewall, but it will work from your home. Please PM or write me if you encounter any bugs. The same goes if you want me to add some missing release (format: title [label] + release month if available) Feedback on the application experience is appreciated too. Thanks for your patience. mars / psynews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmot Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I say "no", but open a thread where people can post their list, recommendations, comments and more. Voters can freely choose their level of privacy. Maybe someone even dares to vote Skazi. No big deal either way to me, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I think we should be able to see what everyone is voting for. 1. It's good to see what other people have liked as it can help others look for more good music (there could be another thread but I don't think as many people would vote in it). 2. It would stop people just pissing about and voting for any old crap as they could if it was anonymous. I know most people wouldn't do this but we have our fair share of gits out there. 3. It's more fun! If someone is embarrased by what they are voting for then that's too bad for them. Even if I want to vote for Infected Oforian Skazi Project then I will, it's the internet for god's sake, how anonymous do you need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Voted yes. I like other people to see what I've voted for and I like to see what other people have voted for. For me, a large part of what makes the Best Of useful is seeing what people who generally like the same stuff as I do voted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 2. It would stop people just pissing about and voting for any old crap as they could if it was anonymous. I know most people wouldn't do this but we have our fair share of gits out there. I hadn't thought about this. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agneton Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Initially I wanted to vote 'no', but abasio's comments changed my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 A suggestion. Include free and digital releases. I see so little "Best off" including free and digital releases even though we now are in 2010 and the quality releases within these platforms are increasing by the day. Even better make a Digital and Free section in the reviews section. It's on high time I think. Cheers and Happy New Year. Kristian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 In the past we did it with everybody posting his vote, so people were able to see what others voted. So why not keeping that system? If anybody has a problem with others seeing his votes, he wouldn't have voted in the last years either. I see no need to change that. But I also have no problem if you make it anonymous. Do what you like, I will vote anyways. A suggestion. Include free and digital releases. I see so little "Best off" including free and digital releases even though we now are in 2010 and the quality releases within these platforms are increasing by the day. Even better make a Digital and Free section in the reviews section. It's on high time I think. Cheers and Happy New Year. Kristian I thought that free and digital releases always can be included ... or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRS Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 I would think it cool if we could change our votes anyway we want for the whole of 2010. And that the results would evolve accordingly! Truth is, its way too early for me to vote as I have listened to so many pre 2009 albums this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 In the past we did it with everybody posting his vote, so people were able to see what others voted. So why not keeping that system? If anybody has a problem with others seeing his votes, he wouldn't have voted in the last years either. I see no need to change that. But I also have no problem if you make it anonymous. Do what you like, I will vote anyways. I thought that free and digital releases always can be included ... or not? Maybe you are right but it would not hurt to have those categories included in order to encourage people to also give these releases some credits since we don't see much credit from people when it comes to free downloads. A bit strange really. It was also a request to make a "sub" forum within the reviews section where people can review free releases and digital releases. Again to encourage them to include these releases on the same level as CD's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 I would think it cool if we could change our votes anyway we want for the whole of 2010. And that the results would evolve accordingly! Truth is, its way too early for me to vote as I have listened to so many pre 2009 albums this year. Nice point! In earlier years we could go back and edit our votes as long as we edited our original voting post. In this new system can we go back and change our mind? I think if we can't people will strick with their cagey bets around January 5th and come March 2nd everyone will have changec their minds without being able to express themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blargyblarg Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 We should be able to see who voted what in this poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 A suggestion. Include free and digital releases. I see so little "Best off" including free and digital releases even though we now are in 2010 and the quality releases within these platforms are increasing by the day. Oh sure, that was foreseen, but I may not have all of them, it's harder to find them all than just copying what was available on saikosounds. Even better make a Digital and Free section in the reviews section. It's on high time I think. I don't even think it's needed to separate them anymore. I believe the barrier between CD/USB and downloads has shattered and the one between free and non-free is disappearing too. However, should there be a difference between those who release their own music for free, and those going through a free/digital label/platform like Ektoplazm? What's the limit between "amateur" and "pro" now? I would think it cool if we could change our votes anyway we want for the whole of 2010. And that the results would evolve accordingly! Yes people can change their mind as much as they want:) But I haven't foreseen anything with real-time results for everyone to see. They will only be available after the session has ended. Maybe it would be cool if the system posted on this thread your votes as they are submitted. Maybe not. Let's keep it simple for now. After this session we'll see what worked and what didn't and I'll update the code accotdingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 This all sounds like quite a lot of work on your part Mars. Thanks a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 This all sounds like quite a lot of work on your part Mars. Thanks a lot +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Bah, 5 pages in total. The hardest part is feeding the database with all releases. I have also problems having this mini bestof website and the suntrip website run on the same server for some dumb technical reason. I4ve been struggling to make it to work all day, almost there..be patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blargyblarg Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 What's the limit between "amateur" and "pro" now?Good question. Free music is a big problem for these polls for 2 reasons: 1. if people listen predominantly to free music because it's free, they won't have adequate exposure to professionally released music to properly compare it 2. crusaders for free music will probably skew the vote towards free releases to promote open file sharing (I see this attitude all the time) I think we need to have a completely separate poll for free releases. Some things are released on both CD/CDr and for free and it could get quite confusing, so we'd need some guidelines maybe depending on: - dates of releases - quality of free release - distribution of physical release - how well artist is known in scene I think it will be somewhat subjective in the end and mars would have to give the final say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Good question. Free music is a big problem for these polls for 2 reasons: 1. if people listen predominantly to free music because it's free, they won't have adequate exposure to professionally released music to properly compare it 2. crusaders for free music will probably skew the vote towards free releases to promote open file sharing (I see this attitude all the time) I think we need to have a completely separate poll for free releases. Some things are released on both CD/CDr and for free and it could get quite confusing, so we'd need some guidelines maybe depending on: - dates of releases - quality of free release - distribution of physical release - how well artist is known in scene I think it will be somewhat subjective in the end and mars would have to give the final say. I don't agree at all. It's an old way at looking at things. And I doubt it makes more people download music for free than today. On the other side how can you assure promoting CD's in Polls wont have the same effect on ripping and sharing CD's ? The argument with pro contra bedroom producer is really nonsense there days where releasing a CD is the easiest thing in the world. Many CD's should probably never have seen the day of light if we go down the pro/bedroom producer argument And in the end who are any of us to dictate what is good or bad music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blargyblarg Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I don't agree at all. It's an old way at looking at things. And I doubt it makes more people download music for free than today. On the other side how can you assure promoting CD's in Polls wont have the same effect on ripping and sharing CD's ? Well it's peoples choice how they get their music. The only thing voters in the best of list can affect is which releases are ranked higher than others.... No direct connection to file sharing unless we start including stolen unreleased items in the poll. The argument with pro contra bedroom producer is really nonsense there days where releasing a CD is the easiest thing in the world. Many CD's should probably never have seen the day of light if we go down the pro/bedroom producer argument It's true that many released CDs suck. That will be shown in whether they get voted highly or not. There could be a few friends who vote for crap to try and promote it, but I think the number should be tiny. The difference with free releases is that different audiences tend to listen to them, very few people catch the free releases and physical releases, so asking people to compare them all together isn't realistic. There are lots of people with a vested interest in free music who either have low exposure to non-free music or would vote biasedly in a mixed poll to promote their interests. And in the end who are any of us to dictate what is good or bad music?We all have a say in the poll.... Maybe we should just scrap the best of because nobody should dictate what is good and bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Well it's peoples choice how they get their music. The only thing voters in the best of list can affect is which releases are ranked higher than others.... No direct connection to file sharing unless we start including stolen unreleased items in the poll. File sharing happens no matter if is free music or CD's included in a pool. And the assumption that free downloads generate more illegal file sharing is a weird thought. How can free music generate illegal sharing? It's true that many released CDs suck. That will be shown in whether they get voted highly or not. There could be a few friends who vote for crap to try and promote it, but I think the number should be tiny. The difference with free releases is that different audiences tend to listen to them, very few people catch the free releases and physical releases, so asking people to compare them all together isn't realistic. There are lots of people with a vested interest in free music who either have low exposure to non-free music or would vote biasedly in a mixed poll to promote their interests. We all have a say in the poll.... Maybe we should just scrap the best of because nobody should dictate what is good and bad? Music is music no matter if it's on a physical media such as an CD or available as a free download. An artist getting released on a CD is no more professional or a better musician than an artist releasing music for free. That is an old overused myth. There is no difference. That's my point. You got to dig for the quality releases on CD and digital releases and you got to dig to find the gold in the free releases. You will see more and more of the so-called "Professional" artist realize the future does not belong inside a CD. My point is that its on high time this forum and istratrance etc. give the free releases, and digital shop releases, the credits they deserve. Other scenes are far ahead of the psytrance scene in that regard. This can be done by opening up sections where people can review free releases etc. Or as in this case include these relases into Pools so its not just another Best CD Pool. To sample all releases from a shop and include it to vote for in a Pool is really a very limited Pool. Give people the freedom to choose from inside their brains instead of copy pasting releases from a shop and make sure to include digital and free releases as a separate choice just like "best cover-art" etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blargyblarg Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 OK my argument has nothing to do with illegal downloading. I just don't want to see a flock of people come and vote for their top favorite FREE RELEASES on a top OVERALL RELEASES list. I've shown 2 reasons why this might happen: 1. inadequate exposure to non-free releases 2. crusader interest in promoting free music I don't think I can debate this with you because you go so far off topic. Web releases that are charged money for aren't free releases of course. I would personally have to argue that there is on average a quality gap between free and non-free releases. Only very few misguided people like yourself release all their music for free because they believe music should be free and want to lead some sort of revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 No, I don't think so. This Bestof can be seen as an enjoyable exercise where people elect (not dictate) what Psytrance and Ambient MUSIC touched them the most last year. I don't really care about the format and the Psynews members are not that political. The point is NOT to have an endless inteligentsia-like discussion about it. This is just boring. "Revolution"...what the hell are you talking about? Who's misguided? Hey, this is Psytrance here! <50000 people in the world know what it is! Defining "limits" to what should be in and out will lead to more questionings, then other people will argue about the definitions of the very terms we use, and we'll get to a problem with an infinite complexity...whose input variables will already have changed in a year from now. In other words, it's the perfect way to scrap -to use your term- the BestOf thing. I don't want yet-another-no-go-leading-to-less-activity-in-the-scene. This is counterproductive. I want action and fun. Anyway I don't have an infinite amount of time and resources to dedicate to it, but if you wanna go this direction, just do it. Open a thread and go ask "how could we define a Psytrance release?". I bet on the Godwin point before page 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blargyblarg Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 I can foresee a huge war between Elysium+Basilisk vs. some other members, but I respect your authority and thy will be done (mein führer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 I've been running this board for 10 years, and I could deal with that. And I can also detect the measly attempts at masking a Godwin point with a smiley. What's the point in coming back every other week knowing you'll be banned as usual, Mr. bwhale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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