the use of limited edition releases

[eudaimonia]

oke I don't get at all why a label or artist would decide to limit a release to a number of copies...

 

Today I have encountered for the Xth time a cd I would liek to buy but then I notice it is a limited release so even if the cd is pretty recently released I can't seem to get it at a decent price....

I have no problem if there are several versions of a release and one of them is limited so the collectors can have fun hunting that specific version down.

 

But why discriminate the people who fall in love with the cd a few years after the release and who don't give a fuck about rareness of a release...

[Imba]

Bad financial situation?

[the goa constrictor]

It's like comics and the collecting of anything.

Keeps values high, and encourages more people to buy it quick.

If the consumer buys the product quickly, it pumps money back into the label for its next release.

If it wasn't limited, the consumer would have less reason to buy quickly and therefore the income that the label is requiring for future product goes unearned.

 

 

And it is fun collecting records and knowing where you scored that awesome rare 12" or album. What store. What town. Time of day. It's cool.

[Penzoline]

I want IFO...

[eudaimonia]

It's like comics and the collecting of anything.

Keeps values high, and encourages more people to buy it quick.

If the consumer buys the product quickly, it pumps money back into the label for its next release.

If it wasn't limited, the consumer would have less reason to buy quickly and therefore the income that the label is requiring for future product goes unearned.

 

 

And it is fun collecting records and knowing where you scored that awesome rare 12" or album. What store. What town. Time of day. It's cool.

 

oke that seems lie a decent explanation but aren't the labels losing more money afterwards??? Like aes dana - aftermath and solar fields-extended .. ultimae could have earned some money on me but now it is only some guy selling it to me for a to high price who will earn money or a idiot who looses potential money

 

I can understand the fun of collection rare things but I wish it would't get in the way of "normal" music lovers and of the music itself because allot of times a album gets overated because its rare ...not? I experienced that myself several times that my subjectivity gets influenced from the moment I know I am listening to something verry rare...

 

@Imba :yeah I am a poor student so I ain't got moeny to pay 100 euros for album

[Imba]

oke that seems lie a decent explanation but aren't the labels losing more money afterwards??? Like aes dana - aftermath and solar fields-extended .. ultimae could have earned some money on me but now it is only some guy selling it to me for a to high price who will earn money or a idiot who looses potential money

 

I can understand the fun of collection rare things but I wish it would't get in the way of "normal" music lovers and of the music itself because allot of times a album gets overated because its rare ...not? I experienced that myself several times that my subjectivity gets influenced from the moment I know I am listening to something verry rare...

 

@Imba :yeah I am a poor student so I ain't got moeny to pay 100 euros for album

 

I think that maybe labels dont have enough money.

[supergroover]

Ultimae did decide a while ago to repint their entire catalogue. Which is quite a risky thing to do these days.

Printing cds and reprinting them is always difficult with albums that might actually sell. Most albums get printed 1000 pieces and they sell about 300-700 of them. But when an album sells all 1000, are you reprinting it with the possibility that you won't make enough money to cover the costs and work involved? Or are you putting the money in a new release?

Trance cd's usually have a shelf life of a bit over a year. So reprinting after 2 years can be risky...

[the goa constrictor]

Yeah, it's a balance of supply and demand.

You want to find the best balance of profit.

 

Let's look at the number 1,200.

 

You print 1,000 albums and it sells out and there is some demand for more.

You sold out at 1,000 and while you could make more money if you had access to magical new copies, printing another batch runs the risk of not-covering costs.

 

There really isn't a true market demand for such reprints most of the time.

[Elysium]

Its quite simple. Print 1000+ CD's and loose lots of money. Print 200 and sell the 200 and break even.

[eudaimonia]

oke thanks for the replys

I am beginning to get it, it seems more reasonable then I thought at first .

 

...But in these Ltd edition cases the label decides at the beginning to do only one press ...

I have no idea how printing cds works but why can't you press 200 and see that an album sells good and when he is sold out print another 200 instead of taking the risk of pressing 1000 at once

(but probably everytime you do a repress or how is it called you have extra costs ?...)

 

 

@Imba : sorry I misinterpreted you

[mars]

Its quite simple. Print 1000+ CD's and loose lots of money. Print 200 and sell the 200 and break even.

 

With all due respect, Kristian, this is not true.

 

Ok, to begin with, many so-called limited editions are actually 1000 copys batches. Fewer are 500 copies batches.

And when you know most labels nowadays only press 1000 as an initial volume, you realize many "limited edition" labelled cds are just a crook to make you buy the stuff.

Within the techno scenes, I consider 500 copies a limited edition. Not 1000.

 

 

Secondly, pressing a cd involves "fixed costs", one of them being the glassmaster, the kind-of negative that's used to press the final product. This sole item can be between 150 and 300€. Worth mentioning that you don't pay it again if your batch is a reissue from the same factory, but sometimes there are years between 2 batches and material gets archived and lost... That's not all: fatories may allow you to press any random number of cds, but only a multiple of 1000 paper parts (booklet, tray). You want 1200 copies? You pay 1200 cds and 2000 paper parts! In other words, the system is such that if you press under 1000 copies, the price/cd skyrockets and you need to sell more to make money...whereas you actually pressed less.

 

An example? Ok. Let's take an average release: CD replication with full-color, jewelbox with transpaprent tray, full color 4-page booklet, full color tray/back, shrink wrap, shipping, and assume there are no replication rights or royalties or promotion.

• With a eastern europe factory I know: 1000 copies = 727€ cds (0,72/cd). 500 cds = 722€ (1,44/cd).
• Not convinced? A big UK factory then: 2000 cds = 1412€ (0,71/cd). 1200 cds = 1008€ (0,84/cd). 1000 cds = 769€ (0,77/cd). 500 cds = 746€ (1,49/cd). 200 cds = 594€ (2,97/cd).

With an average distributor gross price, break even is at 160 copies with a 1000 cds batch whereas break even is at 124 copies with a 200 cds batch. Your cash flow will be very limited with the remaining 76 copies, so will be your possibilities of reinvestment.

We studied it thoroughly at Suntrip because we want to repress our early releases. In the real world you also pay artists advances, promotion, copyrights, promos, etc, which makes the break even amount much higher. We came to the conclusion that we should keep the factory price/cd under 0,80€.

 

Conclusion:

- a real limited edition generates less revenue than a normal batch.

- to be economically profitable, it's better to press at least 1000 copies, even for a reissue.

[eudaimonia]

oke thanks for the reply mars!

so I get back to my original question ,as the economic benefit doesn't seem to be argument for limited editions...

 

@ mars so will there be repress of some suntrip stuff? maybe you can still do a smaller number repress and ask a bit more money for the cds... Because another 1000 would be hard to get rid of I guess

 

Damn those pressing prices are not in the benefit of small labels to say the least...

[Rotwang]

And when you know most labels nowadays only press 1000 as an initial volume, you realize many "limited edition" labelled cds are just a crook to make you buy the stuff.

+1. Even if a label doesn't expect to sell more than the number it initially has pressed, there's no honest reason to commit themselves to never making any more even if the demand turns out to be there. Making a CD limited edition doesn't benefit the consumer in any way (except for twats who like to feel smug about their collections), it's just a marketing ploy to make people buy stuff quickly.

[mars]

@ mars so will there be repress of some suntrip stuff? maybe you can still do a smaller number repress and ask a bit more money for the cds... Because another 1000 would be hard to get rid of I guess

Yes, we're working on that. Apsara, Khetzal, Heliopolis, Twist Dreams, probably Opus Iridium. I'll do some calculations but I wouldn't like to increase the price. It's like the new batch of t-shirts. It takes time but it will be done eventually.

[Mike A]

Mars said it.

 

One way you can help the labels is to actually buy the cds. Some people think "oh well, I wouldn't buy this one but someone else will so it's ok". The problem is that the "some" is actually 100 people which is worth quite a lot of money to the label.

[eudaimonia]

wow would that really help the labels "buying" the their cds?

just joking

[Mike A]

I'm serious.

People are all about support and peace and love and marking "like" on your posts on Facebook, but when it comes to actually paying money for the cd they suddenly don't have money. Of course they do have money for the equivalent of 10 cds per month, but for drugs.

[Darkarbiter]

I'm serious.

People are all about support and peace and love and marking "like" on your posts on Facebook, but when it comes to actually paying money for the cd they suddenly don't have money. Of course they do have money for the equivalent of 10 cds per month, but for drugs.

 

Drugs is a useful long term investment in consciousness though!

[Rotwang]

So is music.

[(OM)Open_Mind]

Let's draw the conclusion -

[Guest D N H]

........We studied it thoroughly at Suntrip because we want to repress our early releases.........

Have you ever thought to repress Ethereal's Anima Mundi?? A highly sought after album.

 

(I give my word to take 2 copies.-)

[eudaimonia]

yeah I would take a copy of that too that would be really really awsome !!!!

[venohm]

Have you ever thought to repress Ethereal's Anima Mundi?? A highly sought after album.

 

(I give my word to take 2 copies.-)

 

+1

i'll take a couple too

[Twisted D*U*O]

The purpose of the "Limited Edition" as a solo release is to either test market the release or to provide some value to it by making it a rare release. In an age of digital distribution and an abundance of music sharing and trading, not to mention the excess of music production, the shelf life of dance music is VERY short. By limiting the music in it's initial release, you limit who gets it first. Thus you create a demand. Think about it, you want that track but can't get it, right? That's longevity. So you'll probably search high and low for somebody who has it to share or selling their copy.

 

From the standpoint of limiting a release as a test press, this is something that has been going on for as long as the dj as been around. Maybe the track is in the developmental stages and the artist wants to see what kind of reaction they get from it. For a decade now, I've been part of a record pool (now digital pool) that many tracks, in their original form never get released. Think of it as the "white label" theory of vinyl. But in today's market, you can't put out a track without labeling it. A blank CD in the record store gets overlooked. A track named: PSYTRANCE in the digital pool often gets passed by.

[@reyu]

With all due respect, Kristian, this is not true.

 

Ok, to begin with, many so-called limited editions are actually 1000 copys batches. Fewer are 500 copies batches.

And when you know most labels nowadays only press 1000 as an initial volume, you realize many "limited edition" labelled cds are just a crook to make you buy the stuff.

Within the techno scenes, I consider 500 copies a limited edition. Not 1000.

 

 

Secondly, pressing a cd involves "fixed costs", one of them being the glassmaster, the kind-of negative that's used to press the final product. This sole item can be between 150 and 300€. Worth mentioning that you don't pay it again if your batch is a reissue from the same factory, but sometimes there are years between 2 batches and material gets archived and lost... That's not all: fatories may allow you to press any random number of cds, but only a multiple of 1000 paper parts (booklet, tray). You want 1200 copies? You pay 1200 cds and 2000 paper parts! In other words, the system is such that if you press under 1000 copies, the price/cd skyrockets and you need to sell more to make money...whereas you actually pressed less.

 

An example? Ok. Let's take an average release: CD replication with full-color, jewelbox with transpaprent tray, full color 4-page booklet, full color tray/back, shrink wrap, shipping, and assume there are no replication rights or royalties or promotion.

• With a eastern europe factory I know: 1000 copies = 727€ cds (0,72/cd). 500 cds = 722€ (1,44/cd).
• Not convinced? A big UK factory then: 2000 cds = 1412€ (0,71/cd). 1200 cds = 1008€ (0,84/cd). 1000 cds = 769€ (0,77/cd). 500 cds = 746€ (1,49/cd). 200 cds = 594€ (2,97/cd).

With an average distributor gross price, break even is at 160 copies with a 1000 cds batch whereas break even is at 124 copies with a 200 cds batch. Your cash flow will be very limited with the remaining 76 copies, so will be your possibilities of reinvestment.

We studied it thoroughly at Suntrip because we want to repress our early releases. In the real world you also pay artists advances, promotion, copyrights, promos, etc, which makes the break even amount much higher. We came to the conclusion that we should keep the factory price/cd under 0,80€.

 

Conclusion:

- a real limited edition generates less revenue than a normal batch.

- to be economically profitable, it's better to press at least 1000 copies, even for a reissue.

 

Very interesting! Lim ed as a salestrick. I'm gonna think twice before purchasing a lim ed cd in the future