How was dark-psy born?

[D-Dave]

I hadn't read this part. But you didn't need that D-Dave. Sure, GMS has been doing crap for the last 10 years. X-Dream also did some with their "vocal" trance. But both X-Dream an Delta are on a league of their own.

You can rock a party with their tracks only. And I don't know where you got the idea that they destroyed the scene. To me, you can blame the lame-trance that GMS, IM, Astrix, Skazi started.

 

I dunno man, some of the early stuff X-dream did was great, and groundbreaking but it turned out in a bad way in the long run. Some of the early GMS stuff was also great, and as you say they evolved into something really shitty. The GMS style has been ridiculously copied, because it is really easy to just copy. Kick, bassdrum, rhytm and fart sounds. X-Dream did write way better songs than GMS, but X-Dream also "failed", despite making classics like "We created our own happiness" etc.

 

What X-Dream did "wrong" was to have too much focus on the production side of the music. You could also hold the likes of Transwave and later on the "progressive" (nothing progressive whatsoever about "progressive" music though...) and minimal producers (Ticon and all sorts of swedish stiff shit) responsible for the terrible focus on kickdrum, bass and the GMS-style fart sounds. You had those people arguing that 44kHz 24 bit master files of tracks were inferior to 44kHz 32 bit files. It's close to impossible on a molecular level to tell the difference, but they were elitists. Clean sound > a fuzzy but magical melodie... Mastering with spectral analyzers instead of actually listening to the music...

 

Around 1998-2000 people focused on the so called full-on side of trance, with the production (a loud kickdrum basically...) being way more important than any song writing skills, surprising twists and turns, invention, melodies or harmonies. The latter being, you know, the vibe that made up the old school goa music, both night and morning music.

 

As someone stated above, cracked software lead to a lot of people being able to produce a psytrance track. And what was easier to copy than anything else? GMS and X-Dream. Admittedly everyone who tried failed and turn the genre into a repetetive nightmare with no progression, no journeys, no stories being told. And you're not gonna like this, but the big names also dropped the psychedelic drugs and started doing cocaine and alcohol and the music became even shittier, ie darkside, dark-psy, whatever, started to show its ugly face.

 

Sure you can rock a party with X-Dream and Delta (for 1 or 2 hours), but you can not continue to play the exact same kind of music for 18 hours in a row if you want to have anything to do with psychedelic trance. My 2 not so humble cents after 17 years in the scene.

[Elysium]

You seem to take this part of judgement very personal

 

Where didI take it personal? I just stated exactly what i wrote. That Mars generalized excessive and that the world is not black/white.

[Elysium]

D-Dave got a valid point. All the bedroom clones out there will obviously copy the popular "easy to copy" artists as they are usually those they are exposed to at first listen (People love commercial easy listening). Just look at the dreaded full-on. All wanted to sound like Astrix . And why? Because the music is quite easy to copy (straight forward melodic music) with uncomplicated bass lines (Astrix is the father of boring one note bass lines - even though he did not invent them) and not too complicated track structure. Did many try to copy example KoxBox? Nope.. Why? Because that would require much more experience and also a far deeper analysis and understanding of music creation. Something the many bedroom clones does not contain.

 

Easy explained

 

I do not think X-Dream is easy to copy and I haven't heard many copy X-Dream. On the other hand GMS

[Time_Trap]

 

 

And you're not gonna like this, but the big names also dropped the psychedelic drugs and started doing cocaine and alcohol and the music became even shittier, ie darkside, dark-psy, whatever, started to show its ugly face.

 

So out of curiosity you don't like some 2005 psytrance like Psykovsky - Debut or Derango - Tumult or Electrypnose ? Or you are referring to the newest stuff?

[D-Dave]

So out of curiosity you don't like some 2005 psytrance like Psykovsky - Debut or Derango - Tumult or Electrypnose ? Or you are referring the the newest stuff?

 

You are quite right. But to clarify. I could very well do with that kind of music during the night time of a party, cause it would fit perfect during, say 1-3 am. But not during dawn, and certainly not during the morning, and definitely not at any point or place for 18 hours in a row...

[Time_Trap]

You are quite right. But to clarify. I could very well do with that kind of music during the night time of a party, cause it would fit perfect during, say 1-3 am. But not during dawn, and certainly not during the morning, and definitely not at any point or place for 18 hours in a row...

 

I agree with all of the above, especially the 18-hours-in-a-row argument.

By the way I think that the majority of your music classifies more as night music than morning music (the lighter/brighter stuff you have made is schlabb vol 2).

[Ormion]

What really piss me off is when people use the 'satanic' complain about darkpsy.

I buy 4-5 darkpsy compilations/albums per month the last 7 years and I can definitely say that the darkpsy producers that use satanic elements in their music are like the 5%. And even in that 5% not all of them are using it in a cheesy way.

 

So to anyone who calls darkpsy satanic:

STOP DOING IT! It makes your point invalid and you a troll without real arguments.

 

Thank you

[Elysium]

What really piss me off is when people use the 'satanic' complain about darkpsy.

I buy 4-5 darkpsy compilations/albums per month the last 7 years and I can definitely say that the darkpsy producers that use satanic elements in their music are like the 5%. And even in that 5% not all of them are using it in a cheesy way.

 

So to anyone who calls darkpsy satanic:

STOP DOING IT! It makes your point invalid and you a troll without real arguments.

 

Thank you

 

No one even debated that issue here so chill

[Ormion]

No one even debated that issue here so chill

 

I wasn't talking about this thread nor you. But it's something I would gladly put it as my signature, cause in every forum where's a discussion about darkpsy there will always be a mongoloid saying that darkpsy is satanic and blah-blah. There's a huge thread about that in Isratrance for example.

If you're gonna bitch about darkpsy do it. But do it using valid arguments (high bpms, no melodies, fart noises), not arguments that came out of your ass.

[Elysium]

I wasn't talking about this thread nor you. But it's something I would gladly put it as my signature, cause in every forum where's a discussion about darkpsy there will always be a mongoloid saying that darkpsy is satanic and blah-blah. There's a huge thread about that in Isratrance for example.

If you're gonna bitch about darkpsy do it. But do it using valid arguments (high bpms, no melodies, fart noises), not arguments that came out of your ass.

 

 

And so what? There are also stereotype ideas regarding any other genre out there. Point is that there are a small group who I consider to be absolutely nonsense with their Wicca, pentagram and horror movie track titles and samples. But each to his own. There are equal groups of artists in every other genre who make music I find bad or just plain stupid. That's called taste and personal preference Heck there are those who think my music suck and probably think it's too slow and not trippy enough etc.

 

Bottom line is no matter how annoying you find such a debate the debate is valid as long as there are people interested in debating the topic and as long no one become personal or direct mean to other people (at that point there is no longer any debate). If you like to debate that those stinky hippies make fluffy bad music then hey you are welcome (Just an example) No one should restrain anyone from debating - it's called freedom of speech and if one does not like the debate then walk away... Simple rule.

[Procyon]

I wasn't talking about this thread nor you. But it's something I would gladly put it as my signature, cause in every forum where's a discussion about darkpsy there will always be a mongoloid saying that darkpsy is satanic and blah-blah. There's a huge thread about that in Isratrance for example.

If you're gonna bitch about darkpsy do it. But do it using valid arguments (high bpms, no melodies, fart noises), not arguments that came out of your ass.

 

Well, you called me mongoloid (I was the one who mentioned Xenomorph's "Satan's Presence"), but that's ok. But your request is easy said, hardly done. Why? Because to start with, psychedelic trance always had a religion element inserted.

What about its own title 'psychedelic'? Which sends us directly to an abstract definition of our senses? Add to the formula, the hindu deities (shiva, ganesh, and all the gang, used in covers and titles to this day).

Also, to a lot of people (including me), psychedelic at its birth WAS a spiritual experience. My God! I felt the purest feeling of 'happiness" to Goa trance, in an Osaka club in 1996. I couldn't feel my body, only my mind drifting with the sounds.

Mind you, I never took drugs to enter this state. Only a beer every now and then.

 

So, you see, Ormion, there are a lot of people who couldn't enjoy dark-psy solely because of its "satanic" songs. I am one. Believe or not, I try hard to be a better person. This takes some meditation, some appreciation of the beauty of life, deep

studies of kardecism. And I know a lot of people who are on the same boat, and they like - or used to like - the energy that psytrance sometimes can irradiate.

 

It is unavoidable then, when we are talking about psychedelic trance, that spiritualism comes to surface. Unavoidable too, is to talk about "satanism" when dark-psy enters the room. It may be only a bunch of white, skinny geeks who produces that

5% you mentioned (but I think it's much more than that, I'd say half of the titles is about "horror", "tears", "fear", "phobia", and "devil"). But it's there, it's notorious. The same way full-on is associated to cheap sound and drugs, and Goa to deep space,

insight and (rarely nowadays) elaborated melodies.

 

Personally, I take this "satanic" stuff as sounds done by clueless teenagers full of acnes. But, you know, I am one who does not even think of evoking a devil force. For I believe, and I know, something will happen. That's one of the reason I do not listen to

dark psy. I can't also enjoy it musically, way too fast, IMO.

 

I decided to write this long post, so you know that to a lot of people, music is a source of energy. Psychedelic trance was one of the best sources I ever knew. Good and bad energies.

So, please don't call "mongoloids" those you meet and say things like I told you here. There may even be a real mongo among them, but then this mongo may know things you don't.

 

Peace.

[Veracohr]

BPM isn't the only thing contributing to the "darkpsy effect" - that fast, frenetic feel. A song at say 145bpm with a 1/16th note bassline and lots of 1/16th & 1/32nd notes and percussion hits and fast modulations can have a faster feel to it than one at 155bpm with more leisurely notes.

[karan129]

anyway, no need to deviate the topic just for expressing opinion there

 

back to topic, einstein said darkness doesnt exist, it is only the absence of light, and something tells me that none of the dark producers have ever produced a track during sun light

 

what einstein meant is, loads of artists can sound dark without having anything to do with it, like Cujorius One .

 

Einstein did not say that.

[PlutoDelic]

Pretty sure that's not what Einstein meant.

 

well done sherlock, do i need a grant to be sarcastic here?

 

Einstein did not say that.

 

cliiick

[Guest nectarios]

There is no satanic darkpsy. The darkpsy "satanic" covers are as hilarious as the music that has screams of agony samples and the like....its like saying Scream 4 was scary

 

Peace out.

[Procyon]

@nectarios: yes, they may be considered hilarious. For you. As you mentioned a movie, I cite that there are a lot of people who can't watch "The Exorcist" (the original). Or "Rosemary's Baby". I have a friend who simply can't think of watching both, and he's a hard-punk. Go figure it.

 

It comes to my mind a thread I once read in a trance list about a guy who freaked out in the woods, when a DJ started playing tracks with howlings.

His friends wrote he panicked. You see, it does not work for some, but it affects others.

[Guest nectarios]

@nectarios: yes, they may be considered hilarious. For you. As you mentioned a movie, I cite that there are a lot of people who can't watch "The Exorcist" (the original). Or "Rosemary's Baby". I have a friend who simply can't think of watching both, and he's a hard-punk. Go figure it.

Them are actually scary films tho, which is the point I am trying to make about "evil darkpsy" and comparing it to a cheese fest and parody of an actually scary film that is Scream 4...them old classic orchestra theme tunes are actually scary...150+ darkpsy, ain't.

It comes to my mind a thread I once read in a trance list about a guy who freaked out in the woods, when a DJ started playing tracks with howlings.

His friends wrote he panicked. You see, it does not work for some, but it affects others.

 

...or it could be some bad acid, or the dude's metnal health that caused him to freak out. Take some bad acid and a cat jumping in front of you can freak the socks outta you. Do you blame the cat or the bad acid tho?

Not saying I know what was the case of the incident you described, just trying to make a point.

 

Peace.

[Ormion]

Procyon the 'mongoloid' wasn't about you. It was about everyone that trying to bash darkpsy use the 'satanic' argument.

 

And for those who say that darkpsy producers who use scary/evil themes in their music are angry teenagers I can only post this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4sRBja6Hho

 

Scary melodies: check

Babies crying: check

People suffering samples: check

Skull: check

Haunted Mansion: check

 

But no that ain't cheesy! How can be? It's made by Delta! We love Delta! I want Delta to have my babies!

 

 

 

BTW that's my favorite Delta track, but if 'evil' darkpsy is cheesy this is 10 times cheesier.

[Rotwang]

well done sherlock, do i need a grant to be sarcastic here?

Sorry, my bad.

 

 

 

Einstein did not say that.

 

cliiick

 

Maybe this is more deadpan sarcasm, but... you know the link supports karan129, right?

[mars]

Well the drug use/abuse has been there since the very first start so your argument is invalid.

With artists? With the same drugs? Are you sure?

[mars]

X-Dream where the first ones I considered to be making psychedelic trance that is dark, both in the music and production/sound design department.

At the time the word dark was never used. they were said to be "minimal" (like the minimal wave that was just between the goa wave and the full on wave).

[Guest nectarios]

Procyon the 'mongoloid' wasn't about you. It was about everyone that trying to bash darkpsy use the 'satanic' argument.

 

And for those who say that darkpsy producers who use scary/evil themes in their music are angry teenagers I can only post this:

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4sRBja6Hho

 

Scary melodies: check

Babies crying: check

People suffering samples: check

Skull: check

Haunted Mansion: check

 

But no that ain't cheesy! How can be? It's made by Delta! We love Delta! I want Delta to have my babies!

 

 

 

BTW that's my favorite Delta track, but if 'evil' darkpsy is cheesy this is 10 times cheesier.

 

That's all "tongue in cheek" tho, whereas darkpsy is cheesy because its trying so hard to be something, its not. Big difference.

Generally, when something is trying hard to be something its not, it sounds cheesy and pretentious, which I can feel with darkpsy tracks. Tastes and all that...

 

Peace.

[Time_Trap]

With artists? With the same drugs? Are you sure?

 

I was talking about the crowd, not the artists, since you were referring to the crowd too, I think. But I bet a lot of the artists had done acid,shrooms or mdma, plus weed. There are of course some exceptions ( MFG spring to mind ), I am not talking about all but about a significant percentage of them.

[karan129]

Maybe this is more deadpan sarcasm, but... you know the link supports karan129, right?

 

Yup, I'm a little confused too. I've actually seen that advert and seen the same link before, which is why I pointed it out.

 

OT: Like any other genre, darkpsy has a lot of so-so releases and some good ones. Just look for the good ones. And ofcourse, don't have the same expectations of darkpsy that you have of melodic psy.

[Rotwang]

That's all "tongue in cheek" tho, whereas darkpsy is cheesy because its trying so hard to be something, its not. Big difference.

Generally, when something is trying hard to be something its not, it sounds cheesy and pretentious, which I can feel with darkpsy tracks. Tastes and all that...

 

What is darkpsy trying to be that it is not?