Time_Trap Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 What is darkpsy trying to be that it is not? +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 That's all "tongue in cheek" tho, whereas darkpsy is cheesy because its trying so hard to be something, its not. Big difference. Generally, when something is trying hard to be something its not, it sounds cheesy and pretentious, which I can feel with darkpsy tracks. Tastes and all that... Peace. I honestly can't see how darkpsy trying too hard to be something that it's not. It's fast, aggressive music made for the night. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't get how all the haters (not refering to you) got the idea that darkpsy is music that trying desperately to sound evil or pitch black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I dunno man, some of the early stuff X-dream did was great, and groundbreaking but it turned out in a bad way in the long run....Agreed, I do not like the industrial-vocal whatever thing they are doing now...at all. X-Dream did write way better songs than GMS, but X-Dream also "failed", despite making classics like "We created our own happiness" etc.Because them classics were not as accessible music-wise as GMS' cheese fest. I definitely do not think X-Dream "failed", they just stuck with a deep sound, without the impressive stuff for the kids, for longer. Then slightly later Astrix and clones came along...whereas X-Dream where going even more techier, deeper and more minimal. I would hardly say that they "failed". Their music style is still cherished today, I mean their late '90s tunes, still sound fresh today. They were lightyears ahead of everybody, imo...one of the reasons the masses didn't latch on to their sound. What X-Dream did "wrong" was to have too much focus on the production side of the music.I thought that was one of things they did right. Their tunes had this phatbulldozerdriving bottom end no one else had. It hasn't that is was simply loads of it, it had big balls. As someone stated above, cracked software lead to a lot of people being able to produce a psytrance track. And what was easier to copy than anything else? GMS and X-Dream. Admittedly everyone who tried failed and turn the genre into a repetetive nightmare with no progression, no journeys, no stories being told.If everyone who tried copying X-Dream, failed, then it must not have been so easy to copy their sound, innit. You'd have to have a lot of hardware that does not fit through the ethernet cable Letting out the projects that Marcus, Jan and (although not X-Dream members) Arne and Wayan where involved with, I'd like to hear about who copied that sound? I haven't heard of any in the 17 years I've been into psy-trance. Agreed about GMS tho... Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 What is darkpsy trying to be that it is not? dark! It's like down syndrome in waveforms. silly tempos (admittedly not all of it), stupid amounts of noise, glitch and dissonance. Its like being crazy for the sake of being crazy, full with so many cheap sounding synth noises, the same ol' C-1 HPF saw, the same ol' FM sounds, and for a style that is being branded as genious and forward thinking, its extremely predictable. I try to keep an ear to the ground for something new that I might like, irrespective of genres and even tho I am not a darkpsy fan, I hear the same stuff, rehashed in various BPM and always with various levels of bad production and somehow amongst all the attempts at sounding dark, it sounds immature. Having said all that, I have not heard every darkpsy tune. I have heard the Psykovsky, KDD, Derango, Ocelot, Atriohm (which can at least put a decent mix together to be fair), Encefalopathitis(?), Cosmo, Furious, The Nommos...you get the idea, the "major" ones. Of this kind of music is where I have made my conclusions about the genre. I am open for anything that is remotely psychedelic, as these things were not. All this stuff is obviously imo, just to avoid starting another whatever VS darkpsy thread, for the millionth time. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I am open for anything that is remotely psychedelic, as these things were not I think this discussion is going in circles, we have to repeat ourselves. I mentioned some 'dark psychedelic trance' albums I find trippy and psychedelic, Battle Of The Future Buddhas - Demonoizer, Psykovsky - Debut and Derango - Tumult (etc etc) If you don't find psychedelic tracks in these albums, our minds and ears are very different Btw about X-Dream, I mostly like Irritant from their older stuff, and to be honest I quite enjoyed their 2004 We Interface album, although being electro-techy enough , and note that I do not like electro at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 dark! It's like down syndrome in waveforms. silly tempos (admittedly not all of it), stupid amounts of noise, glitch and dissonance. Its like being crazy for the sake of being crazy, full with so many cheap sounding synth noises, the same ol' C-1 HPF saw, the same ol' FM sounds, and for a style that is being branded as genious and forward thinking, its extremely predictable. I try to keep an ear to the ground for something new that I might like, irrespective of genres and even tho I am not a darkpsy fan, I hear the same stuff, rehashed in various BPM and always with various levels of bad production and somehow amongst all the attempts at sounding dark, it sounds immature. Having said all that, I have not heard every darkpsy tune. I have heard the Psykovsky, KDD, Derango, Ocelot, Atriohm (which can at least put a decent mix together to be fair), Encefalopathitis(?), Cosmo, Furious, The Nommos...you get the idea, the "major" ones. Of this kind of music is where I have made my conclusions about the genre. I am open for anything that is remotely psychedelic, as these things were not. All this stuff is obviously imo, just to avoid starting another whatever VS darkpsy thread, for the millionth time. Peace out. Darkpsy ain't trying to be dark. It ain't trying to be anything. It's just a music. The Delta track I posted is trying to be dark. From the darkpsy you've heard can you name me one track that it's trying to be anything else, besides a fast, aggressive, fx madness music? And because we're gonna end in the name again. It's darkpsy because it's darker than most of psy genres. It's darker than full on, darker than goa, darker than prog, darker than suomi. Hence darkpsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 If you don't find psychedelic tracks in these albums, our minds and ears are very different Its why I say tastes and all that. Just responded to rotwang's post. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 From the darkpsy you've heard can you name me one track that it's trying to be anything else, besides a fast, aggressive, fx madness music? An example of what I think is a tune that one would consider aggressive, but I would only think it would be an aggressive tune, when I was 14 maybe... And because we're gonna end in the name again. It's darkpsy because it's darker than most of psy genres. It's darker than full on, darker than goa, darker than prog, darker than suomi. Hence darkpsy. We are ending up in the name. People named it this way to describe its content. We'll have to agree to disgree, darkpsy is not darker than goa or psy-trance. For example UX's Master OF The Universe is goa that is darker than all of the darkpsy genre put together. Its not even called "darkpsy" and it was made like 15 years ago. imo... Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 We are ending up in the name. People named it this way to describe its content. For example UX's Master OF The Universe is goa that is darker than all of the darkpsy genre put together. Its not even called "darkpsy" and it was made like 15 years ago. imo... Peace out. UX are not called darkpsy, they called Dark Goa. Because it is Dark Goa. Just like dark psy is Darker Psy. And that Erlkoenig track is a masterpiece. It's what PSYtrance it's all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 dark! Meaning what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Dave Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Because them classics were not as accessible music-wise as GMS' cheese fest. I definitely do not think X-Dream "failed", they just stuck with a deep sound, without the impressive stuff for the kids, for longer. Then slightly later Astrix and clones came along...whereas X-Dream where going even more techier, deeper and more minimal. I would hardly say that they "failed". Their music style is still cherished today, I mean their late '90s tunes, still sound fresh today. They were lightyears ahead of everybody, imo...one of the reasons the masses didn't latch on to their sound. I thought that was one of things they did right. Their tunes had this phatbulldozerdriving bottom end no one else had. It hasn't that is was simply loads of it, it had big balls. If everyone who tried copying X-Dream, failed, then it must not have been so easy to copy their sound, innit. You'd have to have a lot of hardware that does not fit through the ethernet cable Letting out the projects that Marcus, Jan and (although not X-Dream members) Arne and Wayan where involved with, I'd like to hear about who copied that sound? I haven't heard of any in the 17 years I've been into psy-trance. Agreed about GMS tho... Peace out. We basically agree, it's just a matter of semantics really. So let me try to be a bit more exact and clear and explain myself instead of just ranting. Whenever you copy something it becomes something that is not as good as the original, right? The copier tries to achieve what the original does, but will inevitably fail. Hence, the X-dream and GMS copies failed to sound as good as the original. The only way to go is to produce something of your own really, and that takes, if not skill, then at least innovation. No doubt there are more blatantly obvious GMS copies out there, but what I also refer to is the interest in the production style of X-Dream. Why did everyone suddenly raise the volume of the bassdrum after X-Dream entered the scene? Because everyone tried to emulate that phat kick of X-Dream that you mention, but they did not have the production skills, so the only way to go was to raise the volume to try and get the same effect... In that sense, almost every psytrance act since has tried to copy the production of X-Dream. Check the psytrance of 94-95 and that of 98-00. Huuuuuge production difference, and not necessarily a progression towards better music, nor a better feeling, mood, atmosphere. It is still quite easy to produce a loud kickdrum and a simple bassline - the one note bassline obviously being ridiculously simple... Thats the X-Dream influence. Add the GMS influence, some rhytms and some squeeky, squelchy fart sounds and you pretty much got the psytrance of the noughties... I can't help but think what would happen if X-Dream had not had that huge production influence on the scene. Personally I prefer when the midrange, where the melodies are, plays a prominent role in the production, not the bassdrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Dave Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 UX are not called darkpsy, they called Dark Goa. Because it is Dark Goa. Just like dark psy is Darker Psy. And that Erlkoenig track is a masterpiece. It's what PSYtrance it's all about. This is the first time I heard anyone call UX "Dark Goa". I'd call it psychedelic trance, or simply night music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 UX are not called darkpsy, they called Dark Goa. Because it is Dark Goa. Just like dark psy is Darker Psy.That is what I said, although I would not use the term dark Goa, just Goa and add fucken brilliant after/before that. And that Erlkoenig track is a masterpiece. It's what PSYtrance it's all about. And this is why there is no point talking about this any further. That track sounds childish to me and not even good sounding mixing/production wise. In that sense, almost every psytrance act since has tried to copy the production of X-Dream. Check the psytrance of 94-95 and that of 98-00. Huuuuuge production difference, and not necessarily a progression towards better music, nor a better feeling, mood, atmosphere. Its not the way people mixed in their kicks that made them leave the "music bit". X-Dream had no problem getting a driving bottom end AND the music bit right. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 I may be mis-informing you guys, but I think that the word "dark" used in psy scene came from some heavy metal guys who transitioned from "dark metal" to psy scene. Isn't what happened to Xenomorph and Parasense, to mention only some? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I may be mis-informing you guys, but I think that the word "dark" used in psy scene came from some heavy metal guys who transitioned from "dark metal" to psy scene. Isn't what happened to Xenomorph and Parasense, to mention only some? Dark metal as a genre doesn't exist. You got pretty much darker stuff in metal music like industrial/goth/black/death metal, but never heard something like dark metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Well, you may be right. Anyway I found this: http://www.wikimetal.info/wiki/Dark_Metal http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/liste_groupe-indexStyle-Dark_Metal-l-en.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 It is still quite easy to produce a loud kickdrum and a simple bassline - the one note bassline obviously being ridiculously simple... Simple to do, yes, but not necessarily simple to do well. IMO nobody has done it as well as KDD did on his first album, and many have surely tried. http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzVr5FiVxwU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Lots of really good points. I'm not a darkpsy fan. The closest I get is maybe the SA thing and Dave's and Ka-Sol's stuff. I find darkpsy too complicated to get into a groove with it, basically, and it's certainly not very dance-friendly. But I disagree that it's trying too hard to be something it's not. It is what it is. However, I can relate to the sentiment. I always immediately disliked music that was trying too hard to decorate itself with a horror sound, because it always had the opposite effect on me. Horror cannot be portrayed with immediacy (silly samples and melodies, etc.). Which is why, although I love The Delta, I always disliked Thing (sorry, Ormion - something like Supercell has more subtlety and therefore more horror for me). Dave, it's just a respectful observation, but you seem conflicted. Your music has some of the phattest, most aggressive kickdrums I've experienced. Where did you get those from? I mean, I really like them, but if the origin of that sort of thing is X-Dream, then you have a dilemma. Take a track like Amor & Psyche. Lovely, by the way. And how about Completely Operational, a fantastic track, which is basically psy techno? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Well, you may be right. Anyway I found this: http://www.wikimetal.info/wiki/Dark_Metal http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/liste_groupe-indexStyle-Dark_Metal-l-en.html Trust me, there isn't such a thing like Dark Metal. Atmospheres can be dark in metal especially in black, doom, drone, goth metal, but as a genre Dark Metal never existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Dave, it's just a respectful observation, but you seem conflicted. Your music has some of the phattest, most aggressive kickdrums I've experienced. Where did you get those from? I mean, I really like them, but if the origin of that sort of thing is X-Dream, then you have a dilemma. Take a track like Amor & Psyche. Lovely, by the way. And how about Completely Operational, a fantastic track, which is basically psy techno? I don't agree that competely operational is psy techno, however I do agree with your point. For example Demonoizer album has some pretty stomping kicks and basslines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Personally I prefer when the midrange, where the melodies are, plays a prominent role in the production, not the bassdrum. Talk about having a kick, loud in the mix!! Mind you, I do think its at the right level, for my tastes anyway. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Talk about having a kick, loud in the mix!! Mind you, I do think its at the right level, for my tastes anyway. So you actually do like some dark psychedelic trance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 So you actually do like some dark psychedelic trance? Yes. I just don't like darkpsy. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Yes. I just don't like darkpsy. Peace. darkpsy = dark psy-trance = dark psychedelic trance. The above track you posted qualifies as darkpsy aka dark psychedelic trance IMO. Funny thing is when I mentioned above in my list of psychedelic dark albums you implied you don't find any of the above as psychedelic. Anyways ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 darkpsy = dark psy-trance = dark psychedelic trance. The above track you posted qualifies as darkpsy aka dark psychedelic trance IMO. Funny thing is when I mentioned above in my list of psychedelic dark albums you implied you don't find any of the above as psychedelic. Anyways ... *sigh* In this whole thread and in my posts I have been saying that darkpsy is not dark, its not psychedelic either. I said that I have based my opinion by listening to a few acts, BOTFB was not one of them... I have not heard every darkpsy tune. I have heard the Psykovsky, KDD, Derango, Ocelot, Atriohm (which can at least put a decent mix together to be fair), Encefalopathitis(?), Cosmo, Furious, The Nommos...you get the idea, the "major" ones. BOTFB is not darkpsy, yet I would say that it is psychedelic and dark. I also said that Master Of The Universe by UX is very psychedelic and dark, actually I said its darker and more psychedelic than all of the darkpsy, put together. Once again, by "darkpsy" (as people like to call it, I think its silly to have so many subgenre names, especially when they are so misleading) I mean the subgenre...i.e. the stuff that is neither dark and especially not psychedelic, to me. That is all. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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