visine Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 It's also a completely different statement to "darkpsy is random". Anyway, as long as you're now talking about your subjective opinion rather than objective facts then I'm happy to let it drop if you are. Well I said it almost exactly the same way on the very first page. Have a look: Darkpsy is in my opinion incoherent, random noise....most of the time.... here you are saying I am incorrect. You're behaving like got a license to tell others how they should be perceiving art....well, you don't Anyways, better later than never, so I think we have an understanding now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Why don't you admit an incorrect or inaccurate use of the English language in your original post when you said that darkpsy IS random. It's not, period. If it sounds random to you, well, like Rotwang said, that's fine. It's your opinion or taste, not a fact. A fact is, that darkpsy isn't random, although it may sound random to people, including you. Maybe you should stop trying to discredit me based on my command of English language and try to understand the clarification on the very first page of this thread. You should also try to get off your high horse and tell others how their perception and taste is "not a fact" and somehow yours is. I've never claimed objectivity, bot neither can you. As Kristian has rightfully pointed out, it comes down to ones taste and perception. There is no absolute right and wrong there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 Well I said it almost exactly the same way on the very first page. No, you didn't. You never once acknowledged that your inability to tell the difference between darkpsy and something random is not the same thing as darkpsy being random. Have a look: Darkpsy is in my opinion incoherent, random noise....most of the time.... here you are saying I am incorrect. You're behaving like got a license to tell others how they should be perceiving art....well, you don't No, that is not almost exactly the same as anything I've said. Look: 1) To me a lot of darkpsy sounds like random noise. 2) Darkpsy is in my opinion [...] random noise Do you understand the difference between those two statements? I'll give you a clue: they have different verbs. Anyways, better later than never, so I think we have an understanding now. So did I. Apparently I was mistaken. Maybe you should stop trying to discredit me based on my command of English language and try to understand the clarification on the very first page of this thread. You should also try to get off your high horse and tell others how their perception and taste is "not a fact" and somehow yours is. I've never claimed objectivity, bot neither can you. As Kristian has rightfully pointed out, it comes down to ones taste and perception. There is no absolute right and wrong there. Jeez Louise. No, you still don't get it. The question of whether darkpsy is random, or whether darkpsy is Satanic, does not come down to taste and perception. If you still believe either of those things then you're quite simply wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Darkpsy is not random. Its people's narrow-minded perception who have been listening to goa trance since day one about it which is random. Taste is taste but to slag off an entire sub-genre as random based on some pre-conceived notions by listening to a couple of albums is just plain ignorance. All this unless you meant IMO but didnt properly communicate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'd love to move on from this whole "darkpsy is random" idiocy, but unfortunately people keep posting it over and over and over again. Out of interest, what music do you like? Do you think that if I made up some shit about that music that wasn't true it might annoy you? How about if I kept posting it repeatedly? How long do you think it would take before that started to annoy you? How about if I did it for 5 years? Now that you're mod i think every dark psy fan will be able to pronounce his love for this incoherent noise music fearlessly without thinking of how the goa trance purists feel about people with slightly more diverse taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 Now that you're mod i think every dark psy fan will be able to pronounce his love for this incoherent noise music Don't forget Satan. Hail Beelzebub! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarbiter Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I was watching a documentary recently, ( very good btw) and it made me realise, that music isn't random, a new type of thing (whether it be harmony or the difference between an fm and non fm lead in a darkpsy track) or pattern is merely something that is instinctive in the human brain... and the only way to tell the difference between something that is random or patterned is to know whether under any circumstances you like it. If you do, it probably means something. So I think if 10+ people like anything for it's musicality and not some other form of bias (perhaps there are some forms of music that are random, and people just claim to like them because it makes them confused and therefore they think it is intelligent) then it has some form of structure. If a retard couldn't understand anything more complex than pop music(and most people most definitely are capable of understanding more), then they would most definitely think that psy is random garbage. How do you know that darkpsy isn't just slightly beyond your threshold for abstractness? Or an unfamiliar style of patterns? I know what I first started listening to black metal, all I liked was the drumming and rythmns, then I started liking some of the riffs, then more, then the vocals. I recognised that in it was something good and intelligent, I just couldn't understand or relate to it. I think what is truly hard, is hearing music that you know you don't understand, but you also recognise has some intelligence behind it. There's definitely some darkpsy that is both highly inacessable and medium to highly intelligent (perhaps not as much as the most intelligent 20th century classical/avant garde). The argument as to whether most is whatever, and what the average quality level is however is a different one. For the most part though, I think it's just inacessable to a lot of people. You should also try to get off your high horse Definitely. To me Visine seems quite narrowminded and Rotwang seems a tad arrogant, however Visine's arguments are worse than most, so I can understand how it's a bit frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karan129 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 What's the point of this? Art is subjective. Is there some overwhelming reason why everyone has to agree? Except to disagree ofcourse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ion1zed Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Maybe you should stop trying to discredit me based on my command of English language and try to understand the clarification on the very first page of this thread. You should also try to get off your high horse and tell others how their perception and taste is "not a fact" and somehow yours is. I've never claimed objectivity, bot neither can you. As Kristian has rightfully pointed out, it comes down to ones taste and perception. There is no absolute right and wrong there. I am sitting on a high horse here? Don't think so. I just don't accept your invalid arguments. If it comes down to a matter of taste, fine, I'll probably never be arguing about that, but don't mistake your taste (and few examples as base for a generalization) for a fact, that's pretty much everything I am trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 according to darkarbiter's argument, can we agree that darkpsy is about as random as karlheinz stockhausen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 Rotwang seems a tad arrogant Guilty as charged. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 What's the point of this? Art is subjective. Is there some overwhelming reason why everyone has to agree? Except to disagree ofcourse. Putting aside the fact that whether music is random (as opposed to whether it sounds random to a given listener) is not subjective, the reason I originally responded to Visine is because I'm sick of seeing people continually bash darkpsy for no reason, on a forum where half the regulars like darkpsy. Look, as it happens I don't much care for the majority of progressive psytrance. I have more sense than to pretend I have anything more than a superficial knowledge and superficial understanding of the genre, but what little I've heard I mostly find boring. I expect that there are a number of other psynewsers who feel the same way. But you never see me, or anyone else AFAICR, randomly insult progressive psytrance in a thread that has nothing to do with progressive psytrance, or interrupt a thread in which people who like progressive psytrance are trying to have an intelligent discussion about it, solely for the purpose of calling it boring and pointing out that the people who like it worship Satan. The reason that I and others don't do this is because we have some respect for the many people here who like progressive psytrance, and because that would be a totally dick move. Why, then, don't darkpsy haters show people who like darkpsy the same courtesy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Nice post , Rotwang! I would like to hear what visine has to say in his defense. An apology, maybe , to all the darkpsy fans for poking his nose in a fashion totally uncalled for , calling it random noise and us worshipers of Satan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 Nice post , Rotwang! Thanks! I would like to hear what visine has to say in his defense. An apology, maybe , Probably some more pictures of babies. That'll show me. to all the darkpsy fans for poking his nose in a fashion totally uncalled for , calling it random noise and us worshipers of Satan? To be fair, he never actually called us Satan worshippers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Nice post , Rotwang! I would like to hear what visine has to say in his defense. An apology, maybe , to all the darkpsy fans for poking his nose in a fashion totally uncalled for , calling it random noise and us worshipers of Satan? Weird way of debating! I don't see why anyone should apologize in a debate unless they have been attacking people on a personal level. Each to his own but to ask for a apology is to stretch things very far IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Putting aside the fact that whether music is random (as opposed to whether it sounds random to a given listener) is not subjective, the reason I originally responded to Visine is because I'm sick of seeing people continually bash darkpsy for no reason, on a forum where half the regulars like darkpsy. Look, as it happens I don't much care for the majority of progressive psytrance. I have more sense than to pretend I have anything more than a superficial knowledge and superficial understanding of the genre, but what little I've heard I mostly find boring. I expect that there are a number of other psynewsers who feel the same way. But you never see me, or anyone else AFAICR, randomly insulting progressive psytrance in a thread that has nothing to do with progressive psytrance, or interrupt a thread in which people who like progressive psytrance are trying to have an intelligent discussion about it, solely for the purpose of calling it boring and pointing out that the people who like it worship Satan. The reason that I and others don't do this is because we have some respect for the many people here who like progressive psytrance, and because that would be a totally dick move. Why, then, don't darkpsy haters show people who like darkpsy the same courtesy? +1 And that's a statement that counts for all music imo. Even Morning fullon. If people like it, it's their freedom of taste! After all, isn't that what music is all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 You are doing no good to Dark Psy behaving like this. I disagree that other genres are not target of hard critics - I myself say some painful words to progressive and goa. Critics are important to the development of any art - if you read NYT you know how crucial it is. And, this is a forum, a place to debate. If you do not like reading opinions about your music, then you are not a mature fan or musician. Finally, where do you fans think that the idea that dark is associated with darkness came from collectively? Someone imagined it and then spread the word?? Come on! Almost every dark album has something suggesting it openly or subtly. You are trying to blame the messenger and not the source, weird way of analising facts. Sorry to say this, but this was the most childish psy thread I have seen in ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karan129 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Putting aside the fact that whether music is random (as opposed to whether it sounds random to a given listener) is not subjective, the reason I originally responded to Visine is because I'm sick of seeing people continually bash darkpsy for no reason, on a forum where half the regulars like darkpsy. Look, as it happens I don't much care for the majority of progressive psytrance. I have more sense than to pretend I have anything more than a superficial knowledge and superficial understanding of the genre, but what little I've heard I mostly find boring. I expect that there are a number of other psynewsers who feel the same way. But you never see me, or anyone else AFAICR, randomly insult progressive psytrance in a thread that has nothing to do with progressive psytrance, or interrupt a thread in which people who like progressive psytrance are trying to have an intelligent discussion about it, solely for the purpose of calling it boring and pointing out that the people who like it worship Satan. The reason that I and others don't do this is because we have some respect for the many people here who like progressive psytrance, and because that would be a totally dick move. Why, then, don't darkpsy haters show people who like darkpsy the same courtesy? Oh, I think because of darkpsy's pecularities it can sound random to people. And agreed people shouldn't randomly insult darkpsy, but the only way to make 'em stop is to ignore them. They obviously don't get that music is subjective, and that you need to respect other folks tastes. You could argue with them about this, but we all know how productive internet debates tend to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 calling it boring and pointing out that the people who like it worship Satan. The reason that I and others don't do this is because we have some respect for the many people here who like progressive psytrance, and because that would be a totally dick move. Why, then, don't darkpsy haters show people who like darkpsy the same courtesy? WTF people who like Darkpsy worship Satan? Are you suggesting I said that ? Read again what I wrote in this thread: "Sure, not all Darkpsy is Satanic but pretty much all of satanic themes in Psy scene do fall under Darkpsy...most of it I find cheesy " You're trying to portray a picture of yourself as a tolerant, respecting dude, yet you're willing to call people "ignorant fucks" for saying the music you like is "incoherent/random". Now that's a dick move if there is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Weird way of debating! I don't see why anyone should apologize in a debate unless they have been attacking people on a personal level. Each to his own but to ask for a apology is to stretch things very far IMO. Agreed ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 WTF people who like Darkpsy worship Satan? Are you suggesting I said that ? To be fair, he never actually called us Satan worshippers. Read again what I wrote in this thread: Take your own advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Darkpsy is not random. Its people's narrow-minded perception who have been listening to goa trance since day one about it which is random. What are you trying to say here? People who listened Goa Trance since day one that are a problem? I'd be curious to know more of your opinion here. How listening Goa Trance from early days would be a factor here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 What are you trying to say here? People who listened Goa Trance since day one that are a problem? I'd be curious to know more of your opinion here. How listening Goa Trance from early days would be a factor here? That you only listen to Goa or got interested in the genre through Goa would be a problem in two ways : 1) Most of the Goa trance purists i have interacted with IRL feel the entire psychedelic movement was started by Goa trance and somehow feel darkpsy is an evil extension of the genre , meant for people who are inherently frustrated with life , have quarter life angst and cannot enjoy the Goa vibe for what it is. This is my opinion or my perception through my interaction with Goa trance people over the years 2) Goa trance people only listen to Goa and as a result have become narrow-minded to the extent that they feel no other genre of music can come close to feelings of extacy, oneness and joy it can bring. Since darkpsy sounds remote , haunting and eerie unlike all the adjectives I have used to describe Goa it would only be natural for a Goa trance fan to feel about a cousin who branched out and became evil and is now spreading a bad name for the entire psychedelic society , but this is what is slightly narrow-minded according to the people who have branched out to other sub-genres of psychedelic (full on progressive and darkpsy to name a few) primarily due to the fact Goa trance lost its sheen and not too much of goa was being produced like between 1993-2000 .ie goa trance was dead and people wanted to move to a different style. I also feel some of you Goa trance folks are still stuck in a time warp and have refused to move with the times , but it is totally your choice which depends on taste and whether you are having more of a blast stuck where you are. Although you have the resurgence of goa through what is touted as neo-goa and some of that stuff is really good it can never really bring back that golden era . Its all about keeping an open mind actually. What i find really surprising is how 50% of the fans moved on to some genre or the other while some did not jump onto the bandwagon and got left behind as a result due to which they are bitter and crib about how Goa was and is the best and all this darkpsy just gave the entire scene a bad name. Correct me if I am wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Gahh I can't believe I read this. The most nonsense post of all time. Believe me, I participate in 4 forums in 3 languages. I never, EVER, read an analysis so (speechless) as Exotic's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 @Exotic, Rotwang, Ormion... Now you make me believe. A I wrote some posts ago, I was neutra about dark psyl. Now I see the truth, and I am neutral no more: you are all psychotics. Being psychotic it makes sense you listen to Dark Psy. This whole stupid thread convinced me that only lunatics listen, and enjoy, dark psy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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