Tatsu Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Why not? Only 1MB MP3 files would make it as a release? The only instance where I don't see a Soundcloud/YT track not as a release, is when only part of the track can be listen - say, the first 2 minutes. And it's not ready to be dwld. That is an appetizer, IMO. Not a release. Well, in my head a release was always some kind of "thing" that could be used to DJ, no matter if it's mp3, cd-r or whatever. So if an artist sees his soundlcloud track as release then maybe he should provide enough quality so that it can actually be used. Talking about discogs, I vaguely remember that there is the option "not on label" which would fit for tracks released on soundcloud. Youtobe on the other hand is imho not a real source for downloads. I mean sure I get tracks from there with a programm that rips movies into mp3-files, but again quality is most of the times really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I don't know why am I spending a lot of time and money on mastering, promotional activites, doing cover artworks and banners, dealing with Ektoplazm/publishing, contacting people for promotional reviews? I was such a fool, I should simply use Youtube and upload music on it & tell to artists that that method counts as release aswell (based on latest Psynews standards). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranceVisuals Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 ...... and cash from another source other than selling albums: bookings, for instance. Yeah right.. NOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Honestly, if I liked, say, what Artifakt 303 did, I would donwload it from Youtube, would not spend my money on buying his album. Lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 oh yes? so a crappy 128 kbps MP3 file uploaded to soundcloud counts as proper release now? weird, really. I do not put a crappy 128 kbps file on Soundcloud. I release wav's and it's just as much a release as some release on a CD or a digital download shop. A release is A RELEASE no matter the format! What you preach is your own opinion and is in my book absolutely nonsense! There are many online download shops that sell crappy 192 kbps files Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I don't know why am I spending a lot of time and money on mastering, promotional activites, doing cover artworks and banners, dealing with Ektoplazm/publishing, contacting people for promotional reviews? I was such a fool, I should simply use Youtube and upload music on it & tell to artists that that method counts as release aswell (based on latest Psynews standards). I guess it doesn't matter what the "official" psynews definition for a release is, there is quite a quality difference between a crappy mastered (or not mastered at all) mp3 on youtube and a release like you describe it. Some people don't care for that as long as they can download it for free but enthusiast like me appreciate a release with a certain soundquality and even better a cover and what not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ake Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I do not put a crappy 128 kbps file on Soundcloud. I release wav's and it's just as much a release as some release on a CD or a digital download shop. A release is A RELEASE no matter the format! What you preach is your own opinion and is in my book absolutely nonsense! There are many online download shops that sell crappy 192 kbps files i was expecting you to say that. well, it's cool and generous to offer WAVs for free. and i understand your point about this being a release. but you also know many people do put crappy low quality files on soundcloud, which is also ok because it's mainly for giving people an idea of the music i guess. i'm really wondering where to draw the line here. i also have a mixed set of aussie style prog on soundcloud, download enabled. i just recorded that set for my own pleasure and share it with people who are interested. does that make me an artist, a DJ and compiler? i don't think so, but according to your logic it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 I don't know why am I spending a lot of time and money on mastering, promotional activites, doing cover artworks and banners, dealing with Ektoplazm/publishing, contacting people for promotional reviews? I was such a fool, I should simply use Youtube and upload music on it & tell to artists that that method counts as release aswell (based on latest Psynews standards). Keep doing it if this is what floats your boat. I still do some backdrops, for the passion of it. I am not saying that you, and other established labels are useless, as you are taking it. What I mean is that to most people, what you do is invisible, unfortunately. Take what I say as a voice of millions: who care about coverart these days, for instance? Long gone are the times people felt pleasure reading the name of the authors, the studio name, etc...I surely don't care about names anymore. It belongs to a time when CDs ruled. This MP3 generation cares only about download speed and size. And rare are the ones who like me, care about the quality of the music. As for sound quality, when your rip MP3 out of MP4, you have a lot of programs doing it with Hi-Q available. I am honest to say that I ripped all Liquid Flow tracks from Youtube, and it sounds crystaline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Lame. Yes. But are you going to be frank enough to admit this is true, it happens to almost every music artist, and most people you know do this exactly as I described? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I guess it doesn't matter what the "official" psynews definition for a release is, there is quite a quality difference between a crappy mastered (or not mastered at all) mp3 on youtube and a release like you describe it. Some people don't care for that as long as they can download it for free but enthusiast like me appreciate a release with a certain soundquality and even better a cover and what not. Offcourse it doesn't matter, my post was written in sarcastic tone and I just pointed out how ridiculous was fact when Procyon classified and pointed out some youtube releases as something that can be found in mentioned list. I'm not saying that there isn't great stuff on youtube or on soundcloud, for Christ sake, I'm discovering every day something new and interesting, but that can't be classified as release. What would be if we start searching every corner on the internet (youtube or soundcloud) and start to count all of thoose tracks as releases? There is a line between something professional and something that isn't, that line sometime is very thin, but it exists and that's why labels exists, that's why artists exists and that's why people who love music follow one or another. Self-Released stuff is something different, if it got all mentioned stuff (proper mastering, proper cover artwork, promotion, way of distribution) than (in my humble opinion) it is a release, but some random tunes uploaded on YouTube without proper informations, cover artwork, mastering is just a ''my best YouTube hitz''. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Offcourse it doesn't matter, my post was written in sarcastic tone and I just pointed out how ridiculous was fact when Procyon classified and pointed out some youtube releases as something that can be found in mentioned list. I'm not saying that there isn't great stuff on youtube or on soundcloud, for Christ sake, I'm discovering every day something new and interesting, but that can't be classified as release. What would be if we start searching every corner on the internet (youtube or soundcloud) and start to count all of thoose tracks as releases? There is a line between something professional and something that isn't, that line sometime is very thin, but it exists and that's why labels exists, that's why artists exists and that's why people who love music follow one or another. Self-Released stuff is something different, if it got all mentioned stuff (proper mastering, proper cover artwork, promotion, way of distribution) than (in my humble opinion) it is a release, but some random tunes uploaded on YouTube without proper informations, cover artwork, mastering is just a ''my best YouTube hitz''. Well, this is your opinion, a very particular one, as a label manager. This does not apply to users. I certainly don't see this situation this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Keep doing it if this is what floats your boat. I still do some backdrops, for the passion of it. I am not saying that you, and other established labels are useless, as you are taking it. What I mean is that to most people, what you do is invisible, unfortunately.Invisible or not, that isn't a reason to turn over my ass and start doing it on much easier way(s). Take what I say as a voice of millions: who care about coverart these days, for instance? Long gone are the times people felt pleasure reading the name of the authors, the studio name, etc...I surely don't care about names anymore. It belongs to a time when CDs ruled.Well, I know a lot of people who actually like to see nice cover artwork (including myself), with proper informations, tracklist, some text about author in it. I don't see reason why should people stop doing cover artworks for something that is a digital release. Actually I'm planning to do complete Neogoa (netlabel) releases design in CD format for people who are burning thoose CD's so they can print CD cover and have it as some kind of CD. This MP3 generation cares only about download speed and size. And rare are the ones who like me, care about the quality of the music.You're ripping music from YouTube, discussion about quality should end here. As for sound quality, when your rip MP3 out of MP4, you have a lot of programs doing it with Hi-Q available. I am honest to say that I ripped all Liquid Flow tracks from Youtube, and it sounds crystaline.Maybe it sounds nice on your homespeakers, be my guest and try it out on proper soundsystem on some outdoor party Well, this is your opinion, a very particular one, as a label manager. This does not apply to users. I certainly don't see this situation this way.I'm finding myself more as a user than as a label menager. Everybody who likes music should aim for better quality, even if it's all about free stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Offcourse it doesn't matter, my post was written in sarcastic tone and I just pointed out how ridiculous was fact when Procyon classified and pointed out some youtube releases as something that can be found in mentioned list. I'm not saying that there isn't great stuff on youtube or on soundcloud, for Christ sake, I'm discovering every day something new and interesting, but that can't be classified as release. What would be if we start searching every corner on the internet (youtube or soundcloud) and start to count all of thoose tracks as releases? There is a line between something professional and something that isn't, that line sometime is very thin, but it exists and that's why labels exists, that's why artists exists and that's why people who love music follow one or another. Self-Released stuff is something different, if it got all mentioned stuff (proper mastering, proper cover artwork, promotion, way of distribution) than (in my humble opinion) it is a release, but some random tunes uploaded on YouTube without proper informations, cover artwork, mastering is just a ''my best YouTube hitz''. Exactly my thoughts, and because of that you can call any stuff you want a release, this line is still there. That's what I wanted to say with my post. Well, this is your opinion, a very particular one, as a label manager. This does not apply to users. I certainly don't see this situation this way. Well, maybe you should say it does not apply to ALL users. It sure does for some. I don't know which users make the majority but the fact that there are still labels, like Suntrip for example, that are releasing albums that bring in enough cash to release more stuff hint to me that there is still a fair number of people who care about cover artwork and professional mastering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Invisible or not, that isn't a reason to turn over my ass and start doing it on much easier way(s). Well, I know a lot of people who actually like to see nice cover artwork (including myself), with proper informations, tracklist, some text about author in it. I don't see reason why should people stop doing cover artworks for something that is a digital release. Actually I'm planning to do complete Neogoa (netlabel) releases design in CD format for people who are burning thoose CD's so they can print CD cover and have it as some kind of CD. You're ripping music from YouTube, discussion about quality should end here. Maybe it sounds nice on your homespeakers, be my guest and try it out on proper soundsystem on some outdoor party Sorry, but the Multiquote button is not working with me. First, Richpa, do not take this personally. I am not trying to destroy your business, as I see you are taking this. I am just stating what is happening currently. Also, unfortunately what I wrote (DJs ripping MP3s out of MP4 files), it is true and I am a witness to that. Again, as for the quality of ripped MP3, I suggest you do this with one Liquid Flow track from Youtube. It's perfect. Technologies have improved a lot. You know that. Last, I see you think I - and others like me, who are frank about the current psy/goa market - dream of seeing you going bankrupt . For Krishna's sake! I wish you and your label do great. Certainly there are people willing to pay for downloads and CDs, you have faithful customers and I wish you have more and more. What I am saying is that I WAS ONE who used to buy CDs and pay for MP3s, and why I don't do that anymore. That's it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Yes. But are you going to be frank enough to admit this is true, it happens to almost every music artist, Yes, it happens. So do lots of other bad things. That doesn't make it OK. and most people you know do this exactly as I described? No, most people I know have the decency to pay for things that aren't free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Sorry, but the Multiquote button is not working with me. First, Richpa, do not take this personally. I am not trying to destroy your business, as I see you are taking this. I am just stating what is happening currently. Also, unfortunately what I wrote (DJs ripping MP3s out of MP4 files), it is true and I am a witness to that. Again, as for the quality of ripped MP3, I suggest you do this with one Liquid Flow track from Youtube. It's perfect. Technologies have improved a lot. You know that. Last, I see you think I - and others like me, who are frank about the current psy/goa market - dream of seeing you going bankrupt . For Krishna's sake! I wish you and your label do great. Certainly there are people willing to pay for downloads and CDs, you have faithful customers and I wish you have more and more. What I am saying is that I WAS ONE who used to buy CDs and pay for MP3s, and why I don't do that anymore. That's it! Obviously this happens but imho DJs who get payed gigs and use stolen (which it is in this case for me) MP3s to dj with are a shame. Just because it is a new trend doesn't make it right. And imho this ruins the scene way more than lots of stuff that we talk about on the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 First, Richpa, do not take this personally. I am not trying to destroy your business, as I see you are taking this. I am just stating what is happening currently. Also, unfortunately what I wrote (DJs ripping MP3s out of MP4 files), it is true and I am a witness to that. Again, as for the quality of ripped MP3, I suggest you do this with one Liquid Flow track from Youtube. It's perfect. Technologies have improved a lot. You know that. Dear Procyon, I don't see how did you figured out that I'm taking this personally, especially I don't see any connection between discussion about format quality and releases classification with Neogoa activites or it's own destruction. Last, I see you think I - and others like me, who are frank about the current psy/goa market - dream of seeing you going bankrupt . For Krishna's sake! I wish you and your label do great. Certainly there are people willing to pay for downloads and CDs, you have faithful customers and I wish you have more and more.WTF? I was talking about bad quality of YouTube releases and suddenly we're speaking about secret and evil agenda against Neogoa netlab. I'm going into bankrupt with every new release, nothing has changed, move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insejn Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Haha Anyway as I said before my biggest complain with newschool is all this floatiness. What it has to be so floaty? All these pads, all these melodies that come and go and you find dufficult to focus to. What about the old times when a catchy melody dominated the whole track? http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROI1W3Lgqbs Three main melodies right in your face! Exactly! It's so freaking good. http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWPit-c18qY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 EDIT: technically, when an artist makes his track public via Youtube he is aware, or not, that it is downloadable - so it's a release, anyway. Soundcloud too, when he enables his work to be downloaded, it's a release. Technology has made the boundaries very subtle, thin, sometimes inexistent. What? FYI information you can't download from youtube. You can by using illegal software. This is completelly different. Youtube ain't no different than MTV. You tune in and watching the videos. Downloading the videos though is considered piracy. And no I'm not preaching. Do whatever you want. Also soundcloud is different. When you upload a track on souncloud you have the option to make it downloadable. You decide, you the uploader, you the artist. BTW great way to support the scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Dear Procyon, I don't see how did you figured out that I'm taking this personally, especially I don't see any connection between discussion about format quality and releases classification with Neogoa activites or it's own destruction. WTF? I was talking about bad quality of YouTube releases and suddenly we're speaking about secret and evil agenda against Neogoa netlab. I'm going into bankrupt with every new release, nothing has changed, move on. Hmm? You are a little confused, it was you who said I was turning on you, NOT ON YOUR BUSINESS. So you took this personally. But it does not matter to me. I made my point: the world is not completely according to your, as a manager, point of view. Anyway, I wish your business success. Yes, it happens. So do lots of other bad things. That doesn't make it OK. No, most people I know have the decency to pay for things that aren't free. Ok, you and your friends are decent. Be proud of that. I didn't say it was OK, I just said that it happens more than we wished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penzoline Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Also, unfortunately what I wrote (DJs ripping MP3s out of MP4 files), it is true and I am a witness to that. Again, as for the quality of ripped MP3, I suggest you do this with one Liquid Flow track from Youtube. It's perfect. Technologies have improved a lot. You know that. http://www.h3xed.com/post.php?id=118 Cool, enjoy those crystal clear 128kbps rips. Problems below 320kbps with quality speakers/headphones are audible, maybe not so with cheap gear. But this will lead nowhere. BTW great way to support the scene. . Also discussion about mp3 rips / piracy ends here. http://www.psynews.org/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums§ion=rules&f=2 - NO PIRACY. Do not share links and do not discuss it. We support our psychedelic trance culture and want to foster labels and artists, most of which have a hard enough time to make enough money to even survive, in any beneficial way possible. Piracy is something that clearly runs against all these principles and is not tolerated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 I think these last two pages are a wonderful example of hipocrisy, and dumbness, IMO. I took part in another thread in another forum about the use of samples in some tracks that are never asked permission from the original author. Or the remixes of a whole work, whose author never guesses this happened to his work. And these samples and remixes make into CDs and payable mp3s that - supposedly - will make some rightful earning to the parts interested. So, I think it's not fair the preaching some said here, while other aspects of the situation are not cleared. I am not saying that one error justifies another. But it's hipocrisy what I read here, like "people I know are decent", meaning, "you are not". Wow! If you want to be an example of decency then help clean the dirty corners of this scene before calling other people indecent. As for dumbness, I take the example of a model of business that is not working well at all for more than a decade, even for the giants - and the refusal of recognizing that the model is failing and another refusal in adapting to what is really going on. I am honest enough - and also lacking decency according to Rotwang - to admit that I am not spending my money on payable tracks and instead ripping them from mp4 files. Well, I live in the real world, where this happens a lot. I will not pretend I don't that, because then I would be lying. And most people I know do that, be my rich boss or my friends. This is the world where money is spent, not the Wonderland some of the preachers live. To the ones who haven't read, I will make it clearer: most releases are not worthy buying, so I don't buy it. But if it's downloadable, I will do that, no blinks. Want me to buy an album? Then make it good. In the end I hope this whole discussion helps not only improving the quality of the writing of goa and psy works, but also the way these works are sold. Wait! Who is selling psy and goa these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma05683 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Haha Anyway as I said before my biggest complain with newschool is all this floatiness. What it has to be so floaty? All these pads, all these melodies that come and go and you find dufficult to focus to. What about the old times when a catchy melody dominated the whole track? http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROI1W3Lgqbs Three main melodies right in your face! +10 in my opinion the old producers grew their musical status-knowledge with music styles as new beat,makina,early techno,punk etc etc i cant say generally that new producers has ''lighter musical backround'' i think its diffrent to ''build'' a musical base hearing new wave,new beat etc etc and different to ''build '' this base hearing Astral,Etnica i think this argument has a point !? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hmm? You are a little confused, it was you who said I was turning on you, NOT ON YOUR BUSINESS. So you took this personally. But it does not matter to me. I made my point: the world is not completely according to your, as a manager, point of view. Anyway, I wish your business success. @richpa, I retreat the first lines: I reread your MQ comment and understood you didn't take this personally. My mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 To the ones who haven't read, I will make it clearer: most releases are not worthy buying, so I don't buy it. But if it's downloadable, I will do that, no blinks. Want me to buy an album? Then make it good. According to that logic I don't like any of the new music, movies, books, comics, video games, computer programs. So I will download them all. I don't like them, so no one can accused me for being a leech, right? The idea of 'I don't like something, so I won't pay for it' is the same with 'I don't like that chocolate, so I will steal it'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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