What is wrong with Neogoa?

[Elysium]

+10

 

in my opinion the old producers grew their musical status-knowledge with music styles as new beat,makina,early techno,punk etc etc

i cant say generally that new producers has ''lighter musical backround''

 

i think its diffrent to ''build'' a musical base hearing new wave,new beat etc etc

and different to ''build '' this base hearing Astral,Etnica

i think this argument has a point !?

 

I fully agree and the point is that many of us came from a background playing in bands in the 80's, having a long experience from working in studios etc. I personally played in bands as the keyboard player, worked in all kind of studios up through the 80's and studied music (classical piano and jazz). Our musical reference was not a narrow scene of goa/psytrance but a very wide music reference based on music from the 70's and 80's and especially Disco, New Wave/New Romantics, synth-pop (and experimental synth music), Industrial etc.

 

Now I do not want to put down today's artists in this scene as there are clear talents out there and also artists with a broad taste in music. BUT I do agree that many (I feel the majority - maybe I am wrong) of these artists references in music is limited to the Goa/psytrance scene, which I feel is evident when listening to their music, and not a broader reference as we entered this scene with.

[Richpa]

@richpa, I retreat the first lines: I reread your MQ comment and understood you didn't take this personally. My mistake.

 

It's alright

[Procyon]

According to that logic I don't like any of the new music, movies, books, comics, video games, computer programs. So I will download them all.

I don't like them, so no one can accused me for being a leech, right?

 

The idea of 'I don't like something, so I won't pay for it' is the same with 'I don't like that chocolate, so I will steal it'.

 

First, I rip mp3s. But I am sure, despite not knowing them, that a lot of videogame fans do rip and download files, instead of buying them.

The same for e-books, movies etc...

Is is stealing? yes, it is. Is it legal? In some cases it is. Most, not.

 

Closer to the psy scene: a lot of artists have an illegal version of programs running on their computers? Yes, a lot. Do they use illegal samples? Yes, a lot. Do they remix unauthorized tracks? Yes, they do.

Do they use, say, tribal chants and do not pay the royalties to the singers? Yes, they do. And do they want to sell their work legally and get mad at people file-sharing their work? Yes, some of them.

The smarter ones are not that "decent" and even release their tracks for free.

 

Another dirty corner of this ring is: "it's illegal to download mp3s, you indecent"...wait a moment while I take my illegal drug (that costs lives in the places where they are harvested, and their profits are used by some to sponsor terror,

which takes the lives of thousands every year)

 

You see, it's not a perfect world. Legality is a word with many meanings. What is completely illegal for me, may be OK for you. And vice-versa.

So, don't judge my actings if yours are not that good. By the way, I am not writing about you, ORMION, but the psychedelic trancers as a whole.

 

As for the drug thing, I don't know any clean guy in this scene. Hell, I know some guys who rise the "Buy Legal Psy Albums" placard while taking ecstasy in the backstage.

Call it hipocrisy!

[Ormion]

As for the drug thing, I don't know any clean guy in this scene.

You just met the first one.

[Tatsu]

Imho if you take illegal drugs you mainly harm yourself while you harm others with stealing. Quite a difference imho. Not all drugs coss life btw. If you are talking about coke and the sort of civil war it causes in for example South America you are right. But shrooms for example are illegal to (magic mushrooms obviously, not champignons) and you can pick them yourself. I also see a difference (moraly (as for my moral standarts), not legaly) if you steal from big companys or littel self-made men. Obviously both is illegal but big corps get harmed less.

 

You are obviously free to use any moral standart to make it legit to download mp3s. In the end you can do whatever you want, if it's something illegal (counts for downloading illegal mp3s and taking drugs) you just have to be ready to take the consequences. But you can't expect that those arguments make it any better in my eyes. Obviously I also don't expect anybody to agree about my moral standarts with taking drugs either, but I don't really care for that.

[Procyon]

Imho if you take illegal drugs you mainly harm yourself while you harm others with stealing. Quite a difference imho. Not all drugs coss life btw. If you are talking about coke and the sort of civil war it causes in for example South America you are right. But shrooms for example are illegal to (magic mushrooms obviously, not champignons) and you can pick them yourself. I also see a difference (moraly (as for my moral standarts), not legaly) if you steal from big companys or littel self-made men. Obviously both is illegal but big corps get harmed less.

 

You are obviously free to use any moral standart to make it legit to download mp3s. In the end you can do whatever you want, if it's something illegal (counts for downloading illegal mp3s and taking drugs) you just have to be ready to take the consequences. But you can't expect that those arguments make it any better in my eyes. Obviously I also don't expect anybody to agree about my moral standarts with taking drugs either, but I don't really care for that.

 

My point is: legality is something flexible. While in Bolivia having a garden on coke is quite OK, you know how it's in the rest of the world. I never said in this topic I was rightful, that's why I don't accept comments like Rotwang's.

 

I close my arguments here. When hipocrisy enters the room, common sense leaves thru the back door.

[Rotwang]

I didn't say it was OK, I just said that it happens more than we wished.

 

If you wish it happened less, there's an obvious solution: stop doing it.

 

Another dirty corner of this ring is: "it's illegal to download mp3s, you indecent"...wait a moment while I take my illegal drug

Who actually said that? I don't refrain from pirating music because it's illegal. I refrain from pirating music because it's wrong.

 

(that costs lives in the places where they are harvested, and their profits are used by some to sponsor terror,

which takes the lives of thousands every year)

This mostly does not apply to those drugs that are associated with the psy scene - it applies to cocaine and heroin, not to psychedelics.

 

As for the drug thing, I don't know any clean guy in this scene. Hell, I know some guys who rise the "Buy Legal Psy Albums" placard while taking ecstasy in the backstage.

Call it hipocrisy!

 

How is that hypocrisy? It's perfectly reasonable to simultaneously believe that there's nothing wrong with taking ecstasy and that there's something wrong with pirating music (unless you're worried about the poor Columbian farmers being forced by Al-Qaeda to grow ecstasy plants on their farms - are you?).

[Jason Pandanandi]

You just met the first one.

 

I've done a fair bit of experimenting in the past, but I'm entirely clean. Here's to #2.

[Procyon]

If you wish it happened less, there's an obvious solution: stop doing it.

 

 

 

Who actually said that? I don't refrain from pirating music because it's illegal. I refrain from pirating music because it's wrong.

 

 

 

This mostly does not apply to those drugs that are associated with the psy scene - it applies to cocaine and heroin, not to psychedelics.

 

 

 

How is that hypocrisy? It's perfectly reasonable to simultaneously believe that there's nothing wrong with taking ecstasy and that there's something wrong with pirating music (unless you're worried about the poor Columbian farmers being forced by Al-Qaeda to grow ecstasy plants on their farms - are you?).

 

Ok, you're right. I have PMed you.

[Padmapani]

How is that hypocrisy? It's perfectly reasonable to simultaneously believe that there's nothing wrong with taking ecstasy and that there's something wrong with pirating music (unless you're worried about the poor Columbian farmers being forced by Al-Qaeda to grow ecstasy plants on their farms - are you?).

 

well, the most important source material for mdma synthesis, safrole, is harvested from plants growing for instance in the cambodian rain forest. and with buying mdma you indirectly finance environmental destruction, corruption and violence where the safrole comes from. but on the other hand buying cheap clothes is likely just as bad...

[Elysium]

well, the most important source material for mdma synthesis, safrole, is harvested from plants growing for instance in the cambodian rain forest. and with buying mdma you indirectly finance environmental destruction, corruption and violence where the safrole comes from. but on the other hand buying cheap clothes is likely just as bad...

 

Please enlighten me what this has got to do with that there might be something wrong with neogoa?

[CoLoUr DoTZ]

I fully agree and the point is that many of us came from a background playing in bands in the 80's, having a long experience from working in studios etc. I personally played in bands as the keyboard player, worked in all kind of studios up through the 80's and studied music (classical piano and jazz). Our musical reference was not a narrow scene of goa/psytrance but a very wide music reference based on music from the 70's and 80's and especially Disco, New Wave/New Romantics, synth-pop (and experimental synth music), Industrial etc.

 

Now I do not want to put down today's artists in this scene as there are clear talents out there and also artists with a broad taste in music. BUT I do agree that many (I feel the majority - maybe I am wrong) of these artists references in music is limited to the Goa/psytrance scene, which I feel is evident when listening to their music, and not a broader reference as we entered this scene with.

 

It is a general problem, but not only within the trance scene. What many are doing with their bands now, is musically way ahead of most of the electronic stuff.

 

I wished everyone would worry more about the score than how their kick sound.

[Rotwang]

well, the most important source material for mdma synthesis, safrole, is harvested from plants growing for instance in the cambodian rain forest. and with buying mdma you indirectly finance environmental destruction, corruption and violence where the safrole comes from. but on the other hand buying cheap clothes is likely just as bad...

 

I stand corrected. Sorry, Procyon.

 

Please enlighten me what this has got to do with that there might be something wrong with neogoa?

 

Nothing, but it does have something to do with the post to which it was a reply.

[Basilisk]

There is nothing wrong with "neogoa" as far as I am concerned... although I wouldn't mind if the new school movement were more inclusive of different approaches and styles. Purists are quite focused on that Dimension 5/Pleiadians revivalist sound at the expense of alternate approaches like those of Amygdala, Anakoluth, Xamanist, EvsY, Jikkenteki, Magic & Witchcraft, and some of the other artists I have been promoting through Ektoplazm. Think of it this way: lots of releases on TIP Records would not be called neogoa if they were released today (i.e. Psychopod, Organic Noise, Orichalcum & The Deviant, Synchro, etc.). "Goa" was always a bit of a slippery term anyhow. Some stuff obviously fits our understanding of the word (Astral Projection, Cosmosis, and Etnica for instance) but there is a ton of music from the 1990s that only faintly exhibits the glimmering cosmic aesthetic we traditionally associate with Goa trance (and still, we would call it "old school Goa trance"). Neogoa, on the other hand, is fairly limited in scope. I think the movement might benefit from expanding our understanding of neogoa to include other approaches inspired by old school Goa trance.

[Ormion]

There is nothing wrong with "neogoa" as far as I am concerned... although I wouldn't mind if the new school movement were more inclusive of different approaches and styles. Purists are quite focused on that Dimension 5/Pleiadians revivalist sound at the expense of alternate approaches like those of Amygdala, Anakoluth, Xamanist, EvsY, Jikkenteki, Magic & Witchcraft, and some of the other artists I have been promoting through Ektoplazm. Think of it this way: lots of releases on TIP Records would not be called neogoa if they were released today (i.e. Psychopod, Organic Noise, Orichalcum & The Deviant, Synchro, etc.). "Goa" was always a bit of a slippery term anyhow. Some stuff obviously fits our understanding of the word (Astral Projection, Cosmosis, and Etnica for instance) but there is a ton of music from the 1990s that only faintly exhibits the glimmering cosmic aesthetic we traditionally associate with Goa trance (and still, we would call it "old school Goa trance"). Neogoa, on the other hand, is fairly limited in scope. I think the movement might benefit from expanding our understanding of neogoa to include other approaches inspired by old school Goa trance.

 

 

+1

 

I think that new school left out all the psy and kept only the goa.

[Penzoline]

So what did everyone think of Erta Alé? I think it's a big step to the right direction for neogoa sound-wise but there hasn't been much discussion at all even though it stands out like a sore thumb style-wise in the current goa market..

[Procyon]

So what did everyone think of Erta Alé? I think it's a big step to the right direction for neogoa sound-wise but there hasn't been much discussion at all even though it stands out like a sore thumb style-wise in the current goa market..

 

I listened to Erta Ale twice, but my opinion is not that positive. If a direction could be pointed, I think that what E-mantra and Alienapia are doing are the best options. Alienapia has the right dose of darkness, necessary to goa, as many have pointes.

E-mantra deep space effects are unique - despite he uses it a little too loud, too long. I bet their next albums are going to be must-haves.

[Sideffect...]

So what did everyone think of Erta Alé? I think it's a big step to the right direction for neogoa sound-wise but there hasn't been much discussion at all even though it stands out like a sore thumb style-wise in the current goa market..

 

Reading the review, it did draw my attention. I'm giving it a try...

 

Btw:

 

I've listened to the 'Crossing Mind' album 2 times, and according to me this is perfect Goatrance with all it's patterns like it was.

 

Baseline, melodies, spirals are all concept goatrance from the 90's... When it comes to Crossing Mind I see(hear) no difference at all...

 

Which is my imo off course...

[Richpa]

'Crossing Mind' album

 

The Holographic Paradigm actually is old-style goa trance, not sure about correct date of thoose songs, but we're speaking about remastered (never released before) goodies from the past

[IronSun]

I listened to Erta Ale twice.

 

Really, twice? And you already have an opinion on the entire album?

 

I for one do not think there is anything 'wrong' with the modern goa sound. There aren't as many artists as there used to be but surely there is enough variation for me. People who say that for example Suntrip's releases sound all the same: I really don't get how you can find E-mantra, Filteria and Antares sounding the same...

 

I think many people are prejudiced and don't take the modern sound at face-value, and that is a pity. Also, there is nothing wrong with giving suggestions to artists about what you would like to hear, that's called feedback. Constructive feedback helps a music scene. Always nagging about how this and that doesn't sound as it did 15 years ago is completely ignoring music evolution, and I think this is sad. I only discovered psytrance about 3 years ago and as such did not experience the 'golden age' but I do enjoy the old releases, a lot. Yet, that doesn't mean I think the newer stuff is garbage, far from actually, I love a lot of new releases and would put them on par with older ones, some of them even better. A good example of this is Khetzal's Corolle, or even the new Artifact303 and Antares albums, the Alienapia one, Erta Ale, etc...

 

That being said, I would sometimes like a bit more acid in the tracks, and am curious how that would turn out.

[Procyon]

Really, twice? And you already have an opinion on the entire album?

 

I for one do not think there is anything 'wrong' with the modern goa sound. There aren't as many artists as there used to be but surely there is enough variation for me. People who say that for example Suntrip's releases sound all the same: I really don't get how you can find E-mantra, Filteria and Antares sounding the same...

 

I think many people are prejudiced and don't take the modern sound at face-value, and that is a pity. Also, there is nothing wrong with giving suggestions to artists about what you would like to hear, that's called feedback. Constructive feedback helps a music scene. Always nagging about how this and that doesn't sound as it did 15 years ago is completely ignoring music evolution, and I think this is sad. I only discovered psytrance about 3 years ago and as such did not experience the 'golden age' but I do enjoy the old releases, a lot. Yet, that doesn't mean I think the newer stuff is garbage, far from actually, I love a lot of new releases and would put them on par with older ones, some of them even better. A good example of this is Khetzal's Corolle, or even the new Artifact303 and Antares albums, the Alienapia one, Erta Ale, etc...

 

That being said, I would sometimes like a bit more acid in the tracks, and am curious how that would turn out.

 

Twice, really. But that's my opinion, of course. If you liked it, then good for you. Also, we're not having a Old x New battle here, as you believe. It is more in the line of you last sentence: some acid would be good.

Three years in the scene? Out of curiosity, how did you discover psychedelic trance, how does it feel? Can you share your experience with us? I am asking because I am a veteran, I would like

to know how it was with you.

[IronSun]

Ok, I'm going to be very open:

 

I first discovered Psytrance through a friend. It was new year's eve 3 years ago and we had smoked quite some herb when one of my mates said: "Hey, I discovered some really good music, put up youtube I'm gonna let you hear it." This was, ofcourse, infected mushroom, cities of the future to be precise. I know IM is considered trash by many now-a-days (and I must admit that I almost never listen to them anymore either), but you have to understand from what I was coming. At the time I was getting into hardstyle, or jumpstyle after being bored with rock, metal, etc. So I discovered jumpstyle and thought it was the bomb. I guess some part of me also wanted to rebel against the ruling trend of my student bar, which was rock, hard rock, metal and all that stuff ALL THE TIME. So when I first heard some hard beats I was sold immediately. I began to dj it in that bar, mainly to please myself but also to annoy the crap out of all those metal heads (mind you, I do not dislike metal or rock, far from, I just can't listen to it 24/7, and as the bar is the faculty bar of arts I thought the music should be more diverse). Yet, when I first heard IM, I realized in a moment what electronic music CAN be, and fell in love with psytrance immediately. After that I began to experiment some more with substances and psytrance just stuck around (I didn't yet try to find more by myself, I only listened to what friends gave me). It just felt incredibly 'right'. Soon after that my friend fell in love with darkpsy, the likes of kindzadza, furious, penta, psykovsky. So for a while I listened to that. I loved the attitude, and the fact that this kind of music was so different from all the mainstream shit that gets thrown at you. I had some really nice moments on dark and IM, some awesome eargasms. BUT, it was all in function of drugs, experimenting, exploring my consciousness, see what my brain can do. Then I began picking up more interest in the music itself and began digging.

 

This is when I stumbled upon the oldschool sound, and started going to parties. It took me a while to get used to goatrance though. It wasn't as hard and in-your-face as dark and I was really only looking for that crazy climax driven stuff. So I discovered Filteria, and with him Suntrip. I was amazed at the melodic climaxes and soon enough I couldn't listen to anything else anymore, dark included. My interest just kept growing and growing and I began to go back in time, listening to dimension 5, pleiadians, etnica, etc. I began to systematically listen to every release held in high regard by the goa trance community, thanks to friends my stream of new music was endless. I learned to love the alien atmospheres, weird samples, drive and the attitude of goatrance, even more so than the attitude of dark.

 

After that I just got more and more obsessed, started to buy records, look for the next big track but at the same time I began to love the softer side of goa trance and from there developed a liking towards ambient, psychill, etc. Even now, with every day that passes, my vision on the whole thing called psytrance and all it's offspring is ever evolving. I'm beginning to see the big picture I guess, as I have sifted through countless tales, reports, explanations, etc... I really think that this big picture is my vision on it, but never really felt the need to share this with anyone. To me, it all started with proto goa trance, which in turn evolved to goa trance which was popular for 4 years, 1995-1999. After that, people and artists got bored with it, which led to experimentation. Out of this came a couple of new sounds, dark psytrance, minimal and full-on, at least the beginnings of it. As time went on, there were some nostalgic feelings about the old sound, which led to it's atempt at revival. (Of course, all the other new subgenre's evolved as well, but I'm not well versed in the history of those although I do listen to twilight psy, dark and forest from time to time).

 

To me today, I feel like out of this desire to revive the old sound, this old sound evolved with it. It really does feel very natural to me and the goa sound we here today, at least to me, sounds right, it sounds like it had to go there. At the moment I'm dj'ing now and then, and I always try to find the best tunes, and just love sifting through new as well as old releases, looking for ways to combine them in my sets and create truly awesome experiences for the dancers and listeners.

 

I'm willing to take into consideration that by 5 years I will grow tired of this sound, and start wanting something new, but for the moment I am very much in love with goa trance. It's my method of relaxing, it's my hobby and my obsession, and it makes me feel good. It's positive, ever changing and altogether an entire different world. I guess these feelings are exactly because I am rather new to it, but I never experienced this before in my life, being obsessed with music like this. I am even learning to make it myself, and toying around with DAW's, learning the ropes and who knows, maybe some day I'll make something of my own that's worth sharing.

 

To sum it up: at first I was being a rebel and loved the in-your-face attitude, but as time progressed I learned to appreciate more and more aspects of psytrance and now I just feel a profound love for the genre and especially for Goa and Psybient.

 

As of now, I do not have a problem with the way goa is sounding. To me, there is nothing wrong with it, I am satisfied as it is

[Sideffect...]

The Holographic Paradigm actually is old-style goa trance, not sure about correct date of thoose songs, but we're speaking about remastered (never released before) goodies from the past

 

I thought this was new...

 

Reading on discogs the tracks were written around 00...

 

http://www.discogs.com/Crossing-Mind-The-Holographic-Paradigm/master/263592

 

 

[Procyon]

@ IronSun: thanks for sharing. I was curious, I wanted to know if the same "sound tsunami" that swept me on dance floors in the 1990s was what got you. There's one thing though: you won't get tired of it, as you said. Almost everything I do, it's while listening to Goa, psy and ambient - tracks that I have heard, what, 100 times ? I never get tired.

 

Thanks again!

[IronSun]

There's one thing though: you won't get tired of it, as you said. Almost everything I do, it's while listening to Goa, psy and ambient - tracks that I have heard, what, 100 times ? I never get tired.

 

 

That's good to hear, I really don't want to get tired of it either