What is wrong with Neogoa?

[abasio]

While some do sound similar to me, I try to concentrate on the outstanding ones. What about Alienapia for example?

 

I do the same thing. I only buy a few Goa albums a year now & I try to go for the ones I know will be excellent. There are still excellent albums being made but like in any genre 95% of it is as the OP said.

[Veracohr]

how in hell could they make music with Windows 95? that remains a mystery to me

In 1995 the computer was just doing MIDI sequencing. Audio applications existed, but nothing like today. Even then, MIDI sequencing didn't take much in terms of processing power.

[Elysium]

how in hell could they make music with Windows 95? that remains a mystery to me

 

We did not make music with a PC or Windows 95. We used an Atari Computer running Cubase 1.0.

 

 

 

I personally used a Akai ASQ-10 MIDI Sequencer for my 1st Elysium Album and the debut Sheyba release on Flying Rhino. No Computer was used whatsoever.

 

[Richpa]

Reading all thoose comments one more time confirmed my toughts earlier. These (different) opinions, feedbacks and guidelines will help for sure in future of this sub-genre, I'm sure that many artists and publishers are reading this topic and hopefully they'll find some good advices posted here. The good thing is that some of you mentioned core-problem of this genre from a view of outsider (person who doesn't follow this kind of music and releases often) and you posted your honest opinions. Some of you doesn't like that similarity with old-school goa trance, but hey this is evolution and evolution needs TIME and newschool goa trance or call it modern goa trance is a young boy who just got his first boner.

 

If you take a look at newschool/neogoa releases in last 6 years you will see that maybe cca 80-100 albums/compilations were published on CD's and that is a number which in progressive trance, fullon psytrance or even darkpsy genre is presented in maybe 1 year period. So what we got here? Maybe the only scene in psychedelic trance which isn't destroyed by mass production, a bunch of releases published and few houndreds of artists. Few months ago, one dude on our local psytrance forum posted some nice comparation between nowdays psytrance scene and he mentioned that this sub-genre (newschool/neogoa) is the only sub-genre which kept that ''underground spirit''.

 

Let's see what happens when we got perhaps 80 CD releases per year in this kind of music. There will be a lot of new artists and a lot of new publishers, more people will probably know about this and music quality will be reduced with mass production, maybe than we will appriciate more what we got now. I'm not saying that every newschool release is super/good/decent, it's not, there is a lot of bad/unfinished/repetative releases aswell, but if you look at a global picture, than I'm sure that in period of 6 years this kind of music brought some albums and compilations which will be in 10-20 years true classics of genre. I think that people back in 90's also did not liked every single release and probably they also bitched about a lot of releases. Unfortunaley they experienced something different: hiper-production, a bunch of releases and a rise of new sub-genres. I hope that this 2nd generation of goa trance music won't experience thoose things and that future of genre itself gonna be bright and rich.

 

Thoose are some of my opinions about this subject

[mars]

AFAIK, I never liked the "neogoa" term. We release Goatrance.

 

I agree there's some stereotyping due imo to the use of always the same software and quick-win recipes.

But nothing prevents you as a label manager to filter what you consider to be overheard.

 

Overheard is relative: Back in 2003, when you had 1 or 2 Goa albums a year, Goa addicts were starving so much that none complained. Now there are 5/6 Goa labels and around 20 releases a year, sure some have the feeling to hear 10 times more Goa than before, and sure there's some similar ideas. But we're still lightyears away from what's happening in the hiphop scene.

 

I don't now about the others, but we started Suntrip because we wanted to revive Goa. Yet if we wanted the same as before, we would just have kept listening to our old records. Now, do you realize how hard this is to find some music that's labelled Goa, and yet sounds original? I can't but laugh a those people pointing at labels. Do the labels produce the music themselves? No. They select some based on what the artists have to offer. And I'm afraid to say there's not a Khetzal, RA or Koxbox album ready every year. If you keep digging that idea you might end up releasing nothing at all.

 

At Suntrip we've never received so many promos and we've never focussed so much on quality (non-stereotyped sound, original ideas). You cannot imagine how much very decent music I turn down just because of that. But sometimes there's somethign that's nearly perfect, and even though it's made with known sounds, you KNOW people will raise their hands in the air when they listen to it. So why not give it a chance, who are we to deprive people from it? All is a matter of balance.

And that's also a matter of personal tastes, sometimes even religion.

 

I work in the IT sector and often people start complaining because they've heard about some technology too much. It's not a bad technology but they've identified its flaws and find an opportunity to claim that another technology will solve all the problem...it's a neverending story, it's human nature and I can understand it.

 

To finish, my opinion is very basic about all this: I LOVE GOATRANCE. I will keep listening to it till I don't love it anymore. I will buy or download other Goa labels' releases. I'll simply enjoy the music there is. But I will NOT wait 10 more years for an improbable Hallucinogen or Etnica album!

[mars]

I think that people back in 90's also did not liked every single release and probably they also bitched about a lot of releases.

That is so true! When Astral Projection or Etnica were a craze, Space Tribe albums were considered as just average for example...

[Elysium]

That is so true! When Astral Projection or Etnica were a craze, Space Tribe albums were considered as just average for example...

 

I think we have to be careful not generalizing here and speak for everybody but keep it to a "IMO"

 

Now I actually agree as of course there were complaints (as there is in any scene in any year). BUT let's be honest here now. At those days it took a hell lot more to make a tune. It took hardware studio access and a bit more knowledge regarding equipment and studio technique. Basically those who ended up on vinyl and CD's had studio and composer experience whereas today 95% have absolutely no or very limited studio/technical/composer experience before they get released. It's here the big difference is found. IMO

 

P.S. I compare artist in the Goa/Psytrance scene here but basically it apply to any electronic scene these days even though it's more difficult to be released on respected big labels in example the House scene than being released on a respected "big" label in the Goa/psytrance scene. But that's worthy of another independent debate

[Padmapani]

Can be found on some CD releases aswell and I'm sure that free scene so far brought a lot of quality music, projects like Blackstarrfinale, PharaOm, Sky Technology, Arronax (to name a few) are greatest examples of quality goa trance music and that's why I think that people ALWAYS appriciate more real stuff on CD when they spend 10 Euros and pay for it than something that can be found for FREE on the internet.

sure, and of couse i am grateful for free net releases.

after all goa trance is still scarce material; i think now that we get more releases than a few years people are becoming more critical, simply because there's more music to choose from.

 

concerning the artists blackstarrfinale and arronax have some very nice tracks, while pharaom and sky technology are prime examples for the music i'm criticising. of course it totally depends on personal taste and everyone will categorise the music differently. i'd even put filteria's heliopolis in the same category as pharaom and sky technology while i think that daze is a masterpiece

[Elysium]

I agree with Mars that it's just Goa (I also do not like the name Neo Goa - sound like some SS Nazi thing to me) trance but then it also should be subject to way more critical ears (among listeners and labels) as the genre has been here for years now and hardly is new even though the artists making Goa these days are young and some probably not even born when Goa peaked

 

Point is that I do not see any development here. On the contrary I see stagnation caused by the fact that (IMO) most of the releases try too hard to sound "original" and by that fail to stand on it's own. Also I am not convinced this genre will expand and see it's 2nd revival beyond the attention it's getting these days. Maybe I am wrong but I believe there is need for development and evolution here for this genre to become big again.

My 2 cents.

[Richpa]

Now I actually agree as of course there were complaints (as there is in any scene in any year). BUT let's be honest here now. At those days it took a hell lot more to make a tune. It took hardware studio access and a bit more knowledge regarding equipment and studio technique. Basically those who ended up on vinyl and CD's had studio and composer experience whereas today 95% have absolutely no or very limited studio/technical/composer experience before they get released. It's here the big difference is found. IMO

 

I absolutley agree with you on this subject and i can imagine how hard was back than to make some music and how equipment was expensive, but we also must know that we are living in the digital age and all nice stuff (virtual instruments, various software, tutorials and manuals, written experiences, video material, audio material) can be easily found on the internet and it's available to everyone. Same thing can be applied to music itself, I'm sure that 15 or maybe 20 years ago finding good music was real pain in the ass, and now we got Internet and we practicly have acess to all that stuff from our home and chair, either you're buying CD's, buying digital formats or just downloading music.

 

Nice thing is a fact that music now can be published, promoted and presented much easier and faster. Hopefully we'll all continue using thoose adventages in a positive way.

[Elysium]

I absolutley agree with you on this subject and i can imagine how hard was back than to make some music and how equipment was expensive, but we also must know that we are living in the digital age and all nice stuff (virtual instruments, various software, tutorials and manuals, written experiences, video material, audio material) can be easily found on the internet and it's available to everyone. Same thing can be applied to music itself, I'm sure that 15 or maybe 20 years ago finding good music was real pain in the ass, and now we got Internet and we practicly have acess to all that stuff from our home and chair, either you're buying CD's, buying digital formats or just downloading music.

 

Nice thing is a fact that music now can be published, promoted and presented much easier and faster. Hopefully we'll all continue using thoose adventages in a positive way.

 

With my previous statement I did not say that new technology is bad. Heck I have embraced it 120% But it does explain why a heck lot more people make music these days due to how easy it is to set up a digital home studio. And when you got x-number more people having fun making music today than earlier it's only natural that a lot of the music is of mediocre quality (both production-wise as well as composition-wise) simply because the amateur artist have absolutely no experience in studio technique and composing. .But then again you also find real original gems and artists who maybe never would have had a chance to make music if they had to invest a lot of money into big hardware studios. It is never black/white

 

I do think the real "problem" is within the labels these days. Way too many labels was opened up by unprofessional amateurish people who thought they could open up a label and release their "friends" music and be successful. Problem is a label is a business and require professional people (or at least people who know what they are doing) in order for the label to flourish and even more important in order to build up an artist name and career. I beleive the real "problems" of this scene (beside the obvious fail of sales due to internet growth) is a combination of bedroom labels and people who should never have access to releasing their music professionally.

 

I do see a direct connection between the above mentioned problems and example the Goa scene today (but it's not a unique situation in the Goa scene). If the labels (incl. those who say they know what they are doing) would honor quality control a bit more strict there might be less but in the end much better releases being released. Now you can not prevent people from releasing their own music these days. But we are still part of a scene where people still consider a release on a a label as an artist blue stamp of approval. At least here a change would benefit the scene. IMO

 

You mention it was hard to find releases in the old days. Heck no it wasn't. There were records shops selling almost every release and it was way easier to find music based on your taste simply because those working in the records shops would come to know your taste in music and would recommend new releases to you

 

Yes promotion and PR has become every man's tool but that does not mean it's become more professional. On the contrary the majority of artist have very limited knowledge about Marketing & PR. There is a reason why people are educated in this field and why big labels hire professional Marketing people to promote the artists.

[DreamWalker]

Addended my post above

[Sideffect...]

That is so true! When Astral Projection or Etnica were a craze, Space Tribe albums were considered as just average for example...

 

Indeed,

if you check compilations from that period

How many times Astral projection tracks are presented compared to Space tribe tracks,

And Space tribe released as much as Astral projection.

 

 

[Elysium]

That is so true! When Astral Projection or Etnica were a craze, Space Tribe albums were considered as just average for example...

 

 

Indeed,

if you check compilations from that period

How many times Astral projection tracks are presented compared to Space tribe tracks,

And Space tribe released as much as Astral projection.

 

 

 

Come on now that's not a valid argument and based on a blunt generalization

 

So because Astral was on more compilations their music was considered better? By who? You and Mars based on your individual taste or all the rest of the people around the world you seem to have made yourself a spokesman for?

 

Maybe look at how good Astral were at the promotion game instead of generalizing

 

P.S! Sometimes I feel some of you lived in a parallel universe in another scene than the one I lived and breathed in all during the 90's

[DreamWalker]

Indeed,

if you check compilations from that period

How many times Astral projection tracks are presented compared to Space tribe tracks,

And Space tribe released as much as Astral projection.

 

I didn't realize people don't think that anymore. I thought I was the only one who likes Space Tribe's old albums!

 

I haven't listened to his newer stuff, mind you, especially that new Alien Jesus one that's gotten such bad reviews.

 

Sonic Mandala, The Ultraviolet Conspiracy, 2000 O.D., The Future's Right Now, and Religious Experience are classics IMO.

 

The samples can be cheesy at times, but his albums are like that on purpose -- they're more fun that way. It keeps you from having a too-serious trip

[ma05683]

Maybe look at how good Astral were at the promotion game instead of generalizing

 

P.S! Sometimes I feel some of you lived in a parallel universe in another scene than the one I lived and breathed in all during the 90's

 

+1

just 2 words

Infected Mushroom

[BraneFreeze]

It seems to me that there are somewhat contradictory goals here. On the one hand, we expect song composition to conform to certain criteria to be considered goa trance. On the other hand, we complain that the songs sound the same. "Goa" has become a straitjacket. It's time to move on. We need to kill the genre to save it.

 

[Penzoline]

I didn't realize people don't think that anymore. I thought I was the only one who likes Space Tribe's old albums!

 

I haven't listened to his newer stuff, mind you, especially that new Alien Jesus one that's gotten such bad reviews.

 

Sonic Mandala, The Ultraviolet Conspiracy, 2000 O.D., The Future's Right Now, and Religious Experience are classics IMO.

 

The samples can be cheesy at times, but his albums are like that on purpose -- they're more fun that way. It keeps you from having a too-serious trip

 

Hah, I actually wondered about some time ago. I was listening to some Space Tribe and wondered why noone ever talked about them as the music is pretty good. Space Tribe - Sonic Mandala (Crop Circle Mix) is freaking epic though.

[DreamWalker]

Hah, I actually wondered about some time ago. I was listening to some Space Tribe and wondered why noone ever talked about them as the music is pretty good. Space Tribe - Sonic Mandala (Crop Circle Mix) is freaking epic though.

 

Yeah, it's too bad some people overlook him because of the samples. Those albums are really trippy in the right mood.

 

There is nobody else like Olly -- that's for sure!

[exotic]

Nothing is wrong. Just listen to the new artifact 303. Im in sheer awe at the power of neo-goa , the production is crystal clear and GOA melodies melt right in front you. Seriously at a loss of words right now for how good this music is.

[Sideffect...]

Look what I found!

 

http://www.psynews.o...__fromsearch__1

[Padmapani]

Just listen to the new artifact 303

i'm doing that at the moment and i'd agree. pointless thread, there's nothing wrong with goa

[Sideffect...]

Come on now that's not a valid argument and based on a blunt generalization

 

So because Astral was on more compilations their music was considered better? By who? You and Mars based on your individual taste or all the rest of the people around the world you seem to have made yourself a spokesman for?

 

Maybe look at how good Astral were at the promotion game instead of generalizing

 

P.S! Sometimes I feel some of you lived in a parallel universe in another scene than the one I lived and breathed in all during the 90's

Off course, it's also advertising, but that does not mean, if had no certain effect on people's general taste

On the contrary, it must have had it's effect, it's adverting! You said it yourself

 

 

Parallel universe?

I didn't realize people don't think that anymore. I thought I was the only one who likes Space Tribe's old albums!

 

I haven't listened to his newer stuff, mind you, especially that new Alien Jesus one that's gotten such bad reviews.

 

Sonic Mandala, The Ultraviolet Conspiracy, 2000 O.D., The Future's Right Now, and Religious Experience are classics IMO.

 

The samples can be cheesy at times, but his albums are like that on purpose -- they're more fun that way. It keeps you from having a too-serious trip

 

I like Space tribe more then Astral projection. Especially like you mentioned the 1998 album The Future's Right Now. Track 5 is in my signature

 

 

+1

just 2 words

Infected Mushroom

 

Yeah, like Infected Mushroom got it's credit by promotion. I don't listen to them anymore but they were good, everybody loved their first albums back then.

[DreamWalker]

I like Space tribe more then Astral projection. Especially like you mentioned the 1998 album The Future's Right Now. Track 5 is in my signature

 

Nice!

[Elysium]

Off course, it's also advertising, but that does not mean, if had no certain effect on people's general taste

On the contrary, it must have had it's effect, it's adverting! You said it yourself

 

 

Parallel universe?

 

 

My only objection was to the blunt generalization you and mars used.

 

Indeed advertising can cause people to steer toward a certain artist but I can let you in on another fact. Spacetribe played more international gigs than Astral in those days. I know because around 1995 or 1996 I talked to Oli at a gig in Hamburg about his gig schedule and it was massive (As I recall it was 2-3 gigs a week) whereas Astral at that time complained to me while we hang out in Tel-Aviv that they did not have enough international gigs . So it's not as black/white as you and mars made it. Funny thing is today Astral is probably more busy than ever touring.

 

I myself never really got that much into Spacetribe (except for a few tunes) but then again I also never really got into Astral in the way some did (To me the music simply got way over the top with too much focus on melody and less on being deep).

 

My 2 cents

 

 

Yeah, like Infected Mushroom got it's credit by promotion. I don't listen to them anymore but they were good, everybody loved their first albums back then.

 

Wrong again I never liked it and I know more people who never liked it too (especially those who as me saw the obvious copying of other (especially Israeli) artists in their music). But this is a taste issue of course