What is wrong with Neogoa?

[Richpa]

I mean for example fat warmth sound of Astral Projection. Where is it in nowadays releases???

 

Artifact303, Astrancer, Liquid Flow, Antares, to name a few.

[(OM)Open_Mind]

Artifact303, Astrancer, Liquid Flow, Antares, to name a few.

 

Not even close.

[Jason Pandanandi]

Another thing is mixing entirely in DAW (even in so nice, as Logic) - is more flat then on analogue mixer. I checked it millions times and now i'm absolutely sure in it.

 

Hmm... for the most part I agree with you, however, I will say that in my Pro Tools certification classes, I learned how to get an analog sound out of a DAW. It can be done; it just takes some work... and I'm willing to work for it, personally.

 

Going to listen to that KLOP stuff soon, and answer your PM as well, OM.

 

Sorry if anyone feels like I'm disrespecting the entire neogoa scene; I'm not. I love a lot of it. Freshly Cut Tomato and Temple of Chaos are huge albums to me, just to name two. I just wish there was more going on, that's all.

 

Panda out.

[Richpa]

Not even close.

 

Matter of perception. In my opinion they're representing ''warm'' sound in best possible way. Just put a name ''Astral Projection'' and replace with any of them and people will start praising thoose tunes like nothing before. Sad but true

[ion1zed]

And there are a lot of undiscovered names in goa world. Take a listen to this guy (KLOP) for example. His stuff is unusual and that's so cool. Labels must release more stuff like this.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/r5051a

 

 

 

 

Pretty good stuff. Sometimes even excellent. Sometimes the flow is ruined by too many breaks imo, though.

[Elysium]

As a start stop using the name "Neo" in front of goa. Its sound like something out of the SS Nazi headquarters. Just use Goa...It's OK you have been granted permission to use it (joke)

 

2nd. Stop trying to sound like Astral and Etnica. Find your own sound. If it's hard stay longer in the studio before releasing your music.

 

3rd. Good luck

[Jason Pandanandi]

Stop trying to sound like Astral and Etnica.

 

Every goa producer should paste this on their studio doors and on their master keyboard so that they see it at all times.

This is the truth, and goa will stagnate until people understand this.

[Elysium]

Every goa producer should paste this on their studio doors and on their master keyboard so that they see it at all times.

This is the truth, and goa will stagnate until people understand this.

 

IMO the problem is also the labels. They seem to only want this kind of "copy Astral/Etnica" music. High energy fast BPM melodic hands in the air Goa. They do not seem go for experimental trippey deeper goa or acid for that matter. Or maybe there are no artists who know how to make it? Or maybe no one make it because the labels don't seem to want it? I also do not understand why they can not release it all under the same umbrella as there's no need for sub labels as someone suggested in this debate. It's all music

[(OM)Open_Mind]

Matter of perception. In my opinion they're representing ''warm'' sound in best possible way. Just put a name ''Astral Projection'' and replace with any of them and people will start praising thoose tunes like nothing before. Sad but true

 

Yeah. It's perceptional stuff. I'm just trained to recognize this sound. But even if you don't, in subliminal way you will feel one thing sound more pleasant than other.

 

Take a listen of Den Wave live tracks, 100% analogue goa trance written in realtime. Is it's sound more/less pleasant to you than named releases?

http://www.sendspace.com/file/wwxx0n

 

I just wonder why no-one label want to release him, again?

 

Elysium, best advices so far

[(OM)Open_Mind]

IMO the problem is also the labels. They seem to only want this kind of "copy Astral/Etnica" music. High energy fast BPM melodic hands in the air Goa. They do not seem go for experimental trippey deeper goa or acid for that matter. Or maybe there are no artists who know how to make it? Or maybe no one make it because the labels don't seem to want it? I also do not understand why they can not release it all under the same umbrella as there's no need for sub labels as someone suggested in this debate. It's all music

 

If you are artist with free imagination and open mind, you must screw that specialized labels with narrow style, and produce music what you feel intention to produce.

 

You can propose your music to labels time to time. If it will be worth, they will change their rules to release you. If not, make your own digital label (for start)/or give away some stuff free (Hello, ektoplazm!)

 

I'm sure most of goa producers don't make music for living. So it possible to go this way.

 

If you want make music for living, produce some house-fullon homega or other very popular stuff. Or work for production libraries. Sell sound-design soundsets, video tutorials of whatever.

 

And make side project for your soul, if you have free time.

 

Just some very idealistic thoughts...

 

As far as I know about very talented guy Globular, he was never tried to be released, until it was found by label on twisted fan site... His music and sound just AMAZING.

 

Can't stop writing here )) It's curse.

Music production obsession is curse too as well

[Jason Pandanandi]

Or maybe there are no artists who know how to make it? Or maybe no one make it because the labels don't seem to want it?

 

My ambition ever since being a teenager was to make trippy acidic goa... I gave up on it for a while cause I didn't think there was a fanbase for it anymore. I've convinced myself otherwise and started to get the hang of it lately, but I still have misgivings about it because all the hands-in-the-air stuff still makes me think there's no market for the acidic goa.

[(OM)Open_Mind]

What if new-school goa producer listen too much oldschool goa , so its influence his taste too much. I mean, when he freely express himself, his output automatically become similar to something from past? There was so much goa tracks produced before, so it's always can find something like your track.

 

Did you see reviews on this forum? In most cases when reviewer describe track he adds it remind me [author], or it's resurrection of [author]'s style blah blah blah.

[Tatsu]

I liked the Artha album and EP and it's definitely something that we need more of in this scene, although I think it sounds a bit too clean and polished - that's just personal taste on my part. I like things to be a tad bit more lofi. So much modern trance just sounds clinical and sterilized.

As for Erta Ale... great release, and yes, weird, but there's still something missing that I can't put my finger on. Perhaps it's just a personal taste thing again.

 

Anyway, Cronomi still isn't playing the digital distribution game, so that only solves *half* the problem :\

 

I love the Artha album too and I did not feel like it was too clean. But maybe this comes from the fact that I haven't been properly listening to my vinyls. To me, music on vinyl always sounds warmer and less polished. I vaguely remember discussions going on (I think also in this in this forum) about vinyls vs. cd and there were other people who had the same perception. Maybe the problem then is not only the production that makes the music sound so clean (I don't have a clue about sound engineering so I can just guess obviously) but maybe also the fact that none of the new goa is released on vinyl anymore?

[(OM)Open_Mind]

I love the Artha album too and I did not feel like it was too clean. But maybe this comes from the fact that I haven't been properly listening to my vinyls. To me, music on vinyl always sounds warmer and less polished. I vaguely remember discussions going on (I think also in this in this forum) about vinyls vs. cd and there were other people who had the same perception. Maybe the problem then is not only the production that makes the music sound so clean (I don't have a clue about sound engineering so I can just guess obviously) but maybe also the fact that none of the new goa is released on vinyl anymore?

 

Vinyl demand special mastering, like adding noise in silent parts, altering stereo bass to mono, proper level of bass e.t.c. So sound can be very or slightly different if compare with same track on CD. Depends of track itself. Mostly on bass, EQ/compress bass - and change sound of whole track. Vynil alter overall frequency bandwidths also. If less highs come to you ears - soond feel more warmer.

 

Another reason, if original track was written on DAT (48Khz), recoding to CD (44,1Khz) make it more "metallic". When make vinyl no recoding take place, so it sound more organic.

[Jason Pandanandi]

I render all my bass as mono anyway and mix it like you would for a rock song. I'm not a fan of this super-bass-heavy production that's swept all dance music in the last 10 years. If you listen to a lot of the classic goa acts, they treat the bass as just an element of the music rather than as a driving focus. Go look at Orphic Thrench, for example.

[Elysium]

Music produced today would sound just as clean on vinyl as on CD or digital.Its got all to do with the fact it's produced digital and not analogue like in the past. Some of the warmth or deepness in the vinyl was of course due to the pressing technique of vinyl and mastering techniques but today's music produced with modern digital technology would not sound as warm as analogue produced music - even on vinyl.

[Tatsu]

Vinyl demand special mastering, like adding noise in silent parts, altering stereo bass to mono, proper level of bass e.t.c. So sound can be very or slightly different if compare with same track on CD. Depends of track itself. Mostly on bass, EQ/compress bass - and change sound of whole track. Vynil alter overall frequency bandwidths also. If less highs come to you ears - soond feel more warmer.

 

Another reason, if original track was written on DAT (48Khz), recoding to CD (44,1Khz) make it more "metallic". When make vinyl no recoding take place, so it sound more organic.

 

 

Music produced today would sound just as clean on vinyl as on CD or digital.Its got all to do with the fact it's produced digital and not analogue like in the past. Some of the warmth or deepness in the vinyl was of course due to the pressing technique of vinyl and mastering techniques but today's music produced with modern digital technology would not sound as warm as analogue produced music - even on vinyl.

 

Yes, I own some tracks on vinyl and CD (more techno/minimal/whatever you call it, not psy/goa stuff) and to me the vinyl sounds indeed warmer. Then there is of course also the difference of analogue and digital as Elysium mentioned. It would be interesting to have a track in a digital version and an analogue one to hear the difference in direct comparison. Has anybody ever done something like that?

[(OM)Open_Mind]

Music produced today would sound just as clean on vinyl as on CD or digital.Its got all to do with the fact it's produced digital and not analogue like in the past. Some of the warmth or deepness in the vinyl was of course due to the pressing technique of vinyl and mastering techniques but today's music produced with modern digital technology would not sound as warm as analogue produced music - even on vinyl.

 

I totally agree. Can add, that more clean/sterile production give you power to implement very subtle details in mix, so it's not totally bad thing. But very edgy and over-detailed sound make you tired when you listen to it.

 

And, how Panda mentioned, there are techniques to get some sort of analogue feel In The Box production.

 

But if there are enough time for track to use analogue filter (to fight aliasing, add pleasant harmonics, organic filter movement), tape recorder (to smash details, warm overdrive of lows) , mixer (for unique depth of stage feel);

I prefer to do it just because of my personal tastes.

 

I do it only when I'm sure track is finished. And know what parts of mix need to be polished. Not every procedure and not always.

 

Maybe some day I will make music which give me inspiration to kick out my laziness and polish every damn track of mix.

 

It will be WARMy )))

 

 

Back to the theme. If music inspirational, if it has soul, I don't give a $$uck is it warm or not, I just feel the vibe and enjoy it with every cell of my body

 

I truly enjoy some tracker music, which is just joke in terms of quality.

 

 

If somebody make track like this now, is it possible to find proper label for publish it?

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LH4VCEdijA

 

Elysium, is it your rule to release tribal/minimal goa free? Or there are no proper labels over here.

[Rotwang]

Sorry for drifting off-topic, but I have a sincere question for the people who don't think there was anything groundbreaking about IM's early work: have you heard either of these two albums? If you have, consider listening to them in a hypothetical world in which IM never existed; would you think there was anything groundbreaking about them? The reason I ask is because I honestly can't see how someone could listen to one of them and think "this is very heavily indebted to Sandman/MFG/AP" before they think "this is very heavily indebted to IM".

[Elysium]

Sorry for drifting off-topic, but I have a sincere question for the people who don't think there was anything groundbreaking about IM's early work: have you heard either of these two albums? If you have, consider listening to them in a hypothetical world in which IM never existed; would you think there was anything groundbreaking about them? The reason I ask is because I honestly can't see how someone could listen to one of them and think "this is very heavily indebted to Sandman/MFG/AP" before they think "this is very heavily indebted to IM".

 

Haven't listened to them before and nope nothing groundbreaking there either.

 

What I sincerely do not get it why some of you guys who love IM so much somehow (and correct me if I am wrong here) seem to need to justify (or debate) why you think they are so amazing. You dont Just like what you like and do not get so caught up in why someone like me do not think they are so special or amazing. Simple Let's move on

[Procyon]

Artifact303, Astrancer, Liquid Flow, Antares, to name a few.

 

I have to agree that not one of them are even close to the warmth AP had.

Comparing them to Astral Projection is unfair for two reasons: old AP is on a league of its own. New AP, namely 'Amen'

can not compared to them, for it sounds as neogoa as it can be. You are comparing oranges to oranges.

[Procyon]

I appreciate your attitude and idealism, Jason. I think it's a complex and simple issue at the same time. The people promoting the music want music they can believe in, which means the music itself has to strike some balance between newness and accessibility. Too much newness/weirdness and people won't listen. Too much accessibility and it's cheese, which eliminates the discriminating listeners. Matsuri's music was really great, but even that stuff was too weird to be sustainable for long. Same could be said for Blue Room, I think. So ultimately we get down to the intentions of the artist, and then, taken to the extreme, the talent of the artist. The most talented artist, I think, can make the most crazy music but still be accessible by a large sample of people, which will make music promoters want to dedicate themselves to it.

 

And then there's the whole issue of labels needing a niche to be marketable. I don't think a weird, eclectic label is as marketable as one whose sound you can depend on, although the former has worked in the past. But I hear you, and agree with you. Warp Records is a great example of a successful electronic label that had a fairly eclectic sound from the beginning. But they were also very new across the board, and as such were kind of a niche already, and also had some great graphics to back their stuff up. Anyway, complicated.

 

I can't agree with this. Matsuri and Blue Room went out of business not because of the 'weirdness' they released. Quite the contrary, their success - to the point of being remembered to this day - came from their very uniquiness. Take KURO and Prana, as two legends whose tracks have stood the passing of time. They went out of business because music industry - especially electronic - the 'now' lasts only a few years, or months. But, even after Matsuri and Blue Room closed down, names they released are still there. Tsuyoshi still is devoted in Japan. KURO has its own fan base - me included. He is still active, a little low-profile.

Neogoa labels, such as Space Baby, Suntrip, Cronomi are so 'normal' that if they closed down tomorrow, I doubt we would miss them. As for the niche aspect, I think niches are created by what they listen. Not the contrary, as you point: labels have to release to a niche already there. Well, that's exactly the problem with Neogoa from a market point-of-view: their releases seem to try to please too much, too tamed. That's why it is so bland, colorless.

[Jason Pandanandi]

God, Kuro... not to drift off topic, but I just want to chime in that Zoa 96 is one of my favorite tracks of all time. I haven't found something that special in ages.

[(OM)Open_Mind]

You guys have huge success in banishing new-school goa trance. And as old listener I agree with it. But that negativism can't help me too much as producer. Some good thoughts was here, but it can be more if we turn conversation in other direction.

 

 

Better and more constructive thing will be creation of pinned topic.

 

Where we oldschool listeners can bring examples of interesting/unusual/weird elements in tracks. Weird but cool kick, astonishing bassline, unusual psychedelic lead, usage of organic samples, shocking structure of track, deep space e.t.c.

 

Something we like in old-school and want to listen something similar in future of new-schoolers production.

 

I'm now very addicted to Tim Schuldt approach in goa, with industrial influences.

And I want to listen something like this in new school.

 

I want to listen some psy-goa-breakbit stuff, like Tsuyoshi - Sabaku.

 

I want aggressive and twisted to the melting of synthesiser point track like

Slinky Nuns - Shitty Stick . There are Amanians and Lapsus implement it, but I want more with more massive sound!

 

I want true PSYCHEDELIC goa trance like Technossomy or Visitors reborn...

 

I want more ethereal, heavily unique, 4d dimensional trance, like hallucinogen does.

 

I want something new! And I want it now. Want too much, so I do create $@#$@ trance by myself

 

I have seen here many separate topics which is difficult to find and disorganised.

 

So I prefer if will be one topic, where new-schooler (myself included) can come and expand possibilities beyond morning melodic trance and find some inspiration.

 

Rotwang, can you create and pin it?

[Rotwang]

If I correctly understand what you're proposing, I guess such a topic might be worthy of being pinned in the Music Making and Production/Industry subforum. I'll run it by the admins (it's their call, not mine). Anyway, feel free to start such a thread yourself - mods can pin threads started by others if we see fit.