What is wrong with Neogoa?

[(OM)Open_Mind]

Every topic like this was in GENERAL PSYTRANCE thread. And I don't sure active people from here will go to MUSIC MAKING. It's not about making music, but about point each other to full palette, and especially extreme colours of music we called Goa Trance.

 

If you can pin it here, I will create, not a big deal.

[Walkabout]

Some of my favorite artists wear their influences on their sleeves. I hear a lot of new beat in Har-El's music, and he's still a favorite of mine. I do think artists need to listen to more than other goa trance artists. Maybe to the music that influenced those artists.

 

Some of you might find this interesting. When I was a dumb kid without much knowledge of the psy scene IM came to my friend's record shop (in 2000) and I got a chance to talk to them. They explicitly said that on the first album, they set out to make tracks in the style of their favorite artists... a track like Posford, a track like Etnica, a track like Transwave, and I forget the other examples. Classical Mushroom was where they felt they were finding their legs as artists, and they planned to do something radically different again on the third album.

 

Well, we know how it turned out. I dislike the hype around IM and the way that most Americans associate their music with psy-trance now (because of marketing) but I don't really hate their music. They were young guys, not much older than me, with production talent who were given a big opportunity. The industrial sound, Tim Schuldt and Atomic Records were big in 1999 and they rode that wave with their harder take on old goa... right place in the right time!

 

And they stole their name from a no longer producing Punk band in Israel, but that's neither here nor there.

[Tom!]

I heard, and then read, Artifakt 303's tracks and reviews- which everybody has been praising in Psynews. But in my opinion, his tracks have the same formulaic, generic, boring sequences everybody else has been doing. I immediately listened to Psychowave's release - it is all the same stuff. I just can't tell one artist from another, I don't have a track glued to my brain.

 

 

If you think Psychowave and Artifact303's stuff is the same then you've got a hearing problem. The Psychowave EP released on neogoa is honestly.. well.. boring. None of the tracks really go anywhere and there just aren't many layers.

 

Artifact303's album is the work of an extremely creative and talented artist who knows how to layer tracks properly.

 

+ I hate the term 'neogoa'. As a fair few people have said, I'm sticking to simply 'Goa'.

[exotic]

If you think Psychowave and Artifact303's stuff is the same then you've got a hearing problem. The Psychowave EP released on neogoa is honestly.. well.. boring. None of the tracks really go anywhere and there just aren't many layers.

 

Artifact303's album is the work of an extremely creative and talented artist who knows how to layer tracks properly.

 

+ I hate the term 'neogoa'. As a fair few people have said, I'm sticking to simply 'Goa'.

 

Completely agree.

 

Even though I haven't heard the Psychowave EP I am pretty sure of the fact that Artifact303's album is undoubtedly the best I've heard in the last five years from the Psychedelic genre which includes darkpsy full on and progressive. I like to think of music without labels , not a big fan of genres and sub-genres within the electronic genre myself but its a necessary evil that one has to deal with for sake of reference. Back to Space combines good production with extremely well thought out arrangements and an ear for progression and flow which is the first thing that hits you about this music. The mastering is top notch. Everyone was extremely happy with and praising Artha's album but one thing I felt that lacked was soul. I got bored with that album in two listens wheres artifact's album gripped me with the very first track itself and when that happens one looks forward to the rest of the tracks and then all you hear and see is beauty and creativity surrounding the music. I'm yet to decide whether Back to Space is the best Goa ever released primarily because it is quality music with lots of emotion and soul , combined with modern production and technology.

[artifact303]

IMO it's all about TASTE !

Thanks exotic for the kind words but I have to say, it wont be long until someone will fight you back saying, that my music lacks psychedelia and it's to trancy or to happy except 2 or 3 tracks, because their Taste is different. It's simple as that, you can't fight someone's taste. It's a never ending circle

 

About "neogoa", (I don't like this term neither) I think that some old-school artists were more creative with the music and with their equipment, today it's easier to throw something together quickly but lacking soul, emotion and creativity, it will sound weak compared to the old masters. Than again for some it will sound OK, you know it's ... taste

IMO it's harder to make something new too because almost everything was made before and you have to obey some rules to sound and be accepted as goa trance. Back then this music was new and unheard before, that's why it had such an impact on people.

 

With my music I try to recreate (for myself) the feelings that I got from listening to music which impressed me the most, which is melodic goa trance.

 

One more thing, the state of mind is a big factor too, for example, when I'm in bad mood I like to listen (and make) melodic, emotional (for me!) stuff like my music, when I'm in good mood I can listen to darker weirder trance without getting on my nerves. For others it may be the other way around or whatever...what I want to say is with time you will appreciate some music which you did not before...maybe

[Richpa]

If you think Psychowave and Artifact303's stuff is the same then you've got a hearing problem.

I agree with you here, they're pretty much different type of artists with different sound. I don't know why he mentioned thoose two examples.

The Psychowave EP released on neogoa is honestly.. well.. boring. None of the tracks really go anywhere and there just aren't many layers.

Well where did you found EP, because afaik it's still not published on Ektoplazm (just checked my newsletter)?

Artifact303's album is the work of an extremely creative and talented artist who knows how to layer tracks properly.

One of the best in last couple of years, probably it will be my favorite album in 2011.

 

Edit

 

I have to agree that not one of them are even close to the warmth AP had. Comparing them to Astral Projection is unfair for two reasons: old AP is on a league of its own. New AP, namely 'Amen'can not compared to them, for it sounds as neogoa as it can be. You are comparing oranges to oranges.

 

First of all I see that you're huuge AP fan so I'm guessing why you disagree with me in a first place. I don't see Astral Projection as something that can't be compared with nowdays ''similar-style of melodic goa trance'' music and artists, afterall, many of those artists have been influenced by Astral Projection sound and indeed mentioned ones are releasing melodic goa trance with warm approach. Maybe best example of my toughts can be found on Suntrip's V/A - Energy Waves. But again, I saw that you're comparing Psychowave and Artifact303 and still don't see what kind of connection there exists (ok I understand that both of them are into modern goa trance) but their style is absolutley different.

 

Neogoa labels, such as Space Baby, Suntrip, Cronomi are so 'normal' that if they closed down tomorrow, I doubt we would miss them.

You're speaking in the name of global psytrance community here? Man c'mon you can see around here that many people really appriciate what mentioned labels are publishing and releasing. Personaly I think that Suntrip and Cronomi really stand out as top modern goa trance publishers and their styles are different but unique aswell. I didn't find any other label that release music like Cronomi or any other label that release quality goa trance like Suntrip. I don't know, I can tell you that personaly I'm gonna miss if one of them stop doing what they're doing now. Speaking of Space Baby, they release really nice music, for example Alienapia debut is one of the strongest albums in genre, but I don't see Space Baby as a goa trance label because they release different type of psychedelic trance.

[Elysium]

IMO it's harder to make something new too because almost everything was made before and you have to obey some rules to sound and be accepted as goa trance.

 

This is the exact point where I feel most of you new (and just as many old established) artists goes 100% wrong. Point is there are no rules And it's exactly because artist follow these rules that they end up sounding like someone else. The biggest day for me as an artist was the day I realized it and started to write music without sticking to any rules and just go with whatever idea I had in mind (no matter if it would not be "approved" by the Djs, labels, organizers and scene in general).

[artifact303]

This is the exact point where I feel most of you new (and just as many old established) artists goes 100% wrong. Point is there are no rules And it's exactly because artist follow these rules that they end up sounding like someone else. The biggest day for me as an artist was the day I realized it and started to write music without sticking to any rules and just go with whatever idea I had in mind (no matter if it would not be "approved" by the Djs, labels, organizers and scene in general).

 

I got your point and it's a good one. No rules is the key for successful evolution of this genre ...

If you go to crazy beyond the boundaries of accepted goa trance sound it can happen easily that no one will release your music if you want to a proper release. It's a label thing too...but maybe I'm wrong.

Not so long ago I had the pleasure to meet and talk to Dick Trevor, and he told me the same as you, that back then, they had no rules, everyone made what he wanted/had in mind, but with time, this genre defining boundary got shrunken to the point where almost everyone sound the same...in all genres not just goa.

 

Time to go back to "no rules" ...

[Elysium]

I got your point and it's a good one. No rules is the key for successful evolution of this genre ...

If you go to crazy beyond the boundaries of accepted goa trance sound it can happen easily that no one will release your music if you want to a proper release. It's a label thing too...but maybe I'm wrong.

Not so long ago I had the pleasure to meet and talk to Dick Trevor, and he told me the same as you, that back then, they had no rules, everyone made what he wanted/had in mind, but with time, this genre defining boundary got shrunken to the point where almost everyone sound the same...in all genres not just goa.

 

Time to go back to "no rules" ...

 

There are no need for labels these days so go ahead and make whatever you want to make without feeling restricted by a label persons personal taste (in many cases a huge reason to why music sound the same). Release it yourself and best of all release it for free. There are no sale in music these days anyway so you might as well benefit from the huge database of people out there who will start to follow you once you throw away the chains of being locked down to a label which in most cases does not know the first thing about selling and promotion your music the right way.

 

[(OM)Open_Mind]

IMO it's all about TASTE !

Thanks exotic for the kind words but I have to say, it wont be long until someone will fight you back saying, that my music lacks psychedelia and it's to trancy or to happy except 2 or 3 tracks, because their Taste is different. It's simple as that, you can't fight someone's taste. It's a never ending circle

 

Sure mate, just make what you feel to do. You music have soul I must admit and I know many people have eargasm of every track in your album. It's huge success!

But do you even try to take particular track and re-arrange it in weird twisted psychedelic way without thinking about tastes/labels whatever? Just have fun.

 

Like I did sometime ago. I'm sure this is will be not interesting for 90% listeners and labels don't accept it, it's sounds like total nasty trash, but I don't care, I just always try do something new and unusual for myself.

 

What I like in current time - we as listeners now have at least some options to choise in new school. And soon will be even more.

 

I like alienapia and e-mantra, for example. People said to me, "e-mantra is pop his music have many fullon bassline, it's boring and without peaks", "alienapia is dance goa for speed-dark-jerks dancers". I think "WTF??" But everyone have own taste and I respect it.

 

But for my taste it's good example of artist style in music, in creating some micro-world in track. If I like atmposphere, flow, energy of track I don't even want to go into details. This music can turn my mind and body into trance and this is perfect state.

Elysium mixes "My vision" work for me same way, even deeper.

 

Anyway I created topic, so you can drop good examples of goa trance elements from past. When you start make music, you have less time to listen to it. So It's always good to come to bookmarked topic and have goa flashback of good examples.

 

Everyone is welcome.

 

http://www.psynews.org/forums/index.php?/topic/61552-uncommon-elements-of-oldschool-goa/

[Guest E-Mantra]

i'm glad to make part of the "pop music " circle

i might even consider to buy some Britney spears t-shirts

if you all think that the target of music making is to reach AP level or you name it other artists...well

really...that's a really strange thinking

i want to sound as ....doesn't matter as long as it is pleased for my ears

im free to choose my own sound ..and to express my feelings in my way...

lets make a pop revolution..yohooo

[(OM)Open_Mind]

i'm glad to make part of the "pop music " circle

i might even consider to buy some Britney spears t-shirts

if you all think that the target of music making is to reach AP level or you name it other artists...well

really...that's a really strange thinking

i want to sound as ....doesn't matter as long as it is pleased for my ears

im free to choose my own sound ..and to express my feelings in my way...

lets make a pop revolution..yohooo

 

 

You do everything right ) It's pleasant not only for your ears )) Tssss. It's secret And I personally don't find any "pop" in your music.

 

As for labels I'm really curious.

 

E-Mantra, Artifact303, Mars if you are in this thread, can you reveal some album creation workaround. I just wonder if there any restriction when you choose what tracks will fit album?

Let's say 7 tracks with strong Suntrippy format and 8th - slightly goanish weird psytrance

 

And you as author want this particular track as part of album.

 

So will label refuse to release album then?

 

When I listen old-school I just find sometimes much more variations in tracks along one album. Like in my lame-joke mix.

http://soundcloud.com/goamech/goamech-25gt-mj-mix

[Procyon]

You guys have huge success in banishing new-school goa trance. And as old listener I agree with it. But that negativism can't help me too much as producer. Some good thoughts was here, but it can be more if we turn conversation in other direction.

 

Better and more constructive thing will be creation of pinned topic.

 

 

I don't think you should portray yourself as a producer-victim of negativism. This topic was created with one intention: to brainstorm different points of view, thus allowing listeners, producers and labels to look to what is neogoa, what is happening to its sounds, and possibly find a brighter path. I remember I also wrote in the OP that Psynews is perhaps the only forum where this sort of conversation could take place. So you see, a small group - us - could somehow make a more exciting scene. And I hope it will happen soon: you've seen the likes of Mars (Suntrip), E-Mantra, Artifakt 303, Panda and many others who are crucial to the scene having their saying. I am also sure that a lot of what was said here was accepted by some of them. I am sure you yourself have a different idea of what you'll write from now on - proof is that another important topic you have just created. Take it easy. A little darkness is necessary every now and then.

 

Edit - Soon, not son.

[(OM)Open_Mind]

I don't think you should portray yourself as a producer-victim of negativism.

 

I'm not and I'm feel very good about this topic, that's why I'm here. And everything, what I was written in here, was with some sarcastic mood. And I dig in your sarcasm too

 

I'm very positive about future of goa trance. I like what cronomi do, I like panda production. I have found experienced experimental hallucinogen-like guy in my city who is open to collaboration.

 

And Toi Doi is back!!!

 

So everything will be just fine.

 

Peace

[Procyon]

There are no need for labels these days so go ahead and make whatever you want to make without feeling restricted by a label persons personal taste (in many cases a huge reason to why music sound the same). Release it yourself and best of all release it for free. There are no sale in music these days anyway so you might as well benefit from the huge database of people out there who will start to follow you once you throw away the chains of being locked down to a label which in most cases does not know the first thing about selling and promotion your music the right way.

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more, Elysium. I can't see how a track released on Ektoplasm, or any other site, won't fare better than if released via Suntrip, for instance. To be honest, with the technology we have now, sometimes I look for tracks on Youtube. I may be mistaken, but I remember that Ocelot build all his 'career' on Youtube before becoming a more mainstream name. If an artist have nice tracks, it does not matter where it can be listened and downloaded from.

[(OM)Open_Mind]

I couldn't agree with you more, Elysium. I can't see how a track released on Ektoplasm, or any other site, won't fare better than if released via Suntrip, for instance. To be honest, with the technology we have now, sometimes I look for tracks on Youtube. I may be mistaken, but I remember that Ocelot build all his 'career' on Youtube before becoming a more mainstream name. If an artist have nice tracks, it does not matter where it can be listened and downloaded from.

 

Ektoplasm and free labels do Great job for delivering cool music. I prefer Highpersonic Whomen and Amygdala releases from it, more than every commercial releases available in this style.

 

But can it be promoted better then commercial? I don't sure. Every commercial release is spreaded with light of speed by pirates everywhere on web!

I have uploaded unreleased track on youtube

looong time ago.

 

 

I don't sure many of you even see it. But much more of you have listened my released tracks. Sad but truth.

[djmaxfactor1995]

As everybody read, it was said that we don't bitch about goa or progressive, only about LightPsy (sarcasm intended). Let's do it then. But I have a good reason: it has been more than one year since I last took part in a huge thread in that other forum, you know, the-one-we-can't-speak-about, about the then-current state of Neogoa, which were blossoming to its full beauty. However, many, including me, pointed that the whole Neogoa scene seemed to be one single endless track: they were so similar, so ultra-melodic, so unimaginative, that it soon became boring.

 

I have listened to almost everything that was released in the last year. Honestly the only good thing I liked was E-Mantra's work. The rest is crap, sorry to say that so frankly. I heard, and then read, Artifakt 303's tracks and reviews- which everybody has been praising in Psynews. But in my opinion, his tracks have the same formulaic, generic, boring sequences everybody else has been doing. I immediately listened to Psychowave's release - it is all the same stuff. I just can't tell one artist from another, I don't have a track glued to my brain.

 

And in my perception, the Neogoa stuff is starting to walk its path to oblivion. It is so predictable that people don't seem to care about releases, parties, sites related to Neogoa.

It is a pity, I had high hopes that it would shake the whole psy-goa scene which has been letargic since 2002-2003.

 

Sorry for the open critics, but I think it's important to have this debate in Psynews, perhaps the only forum where Neogoa is alive.

 

Procyon, Please regard this question very seriously: If the style, "Goa-Trance" did not exist, would make it up to as the description. You know of Goa, India and you know Trance music, would you use it? And, please explain your answer.

 

Thank you.

[Procyon]

I don't sure many of you even see it. But much more of you have listened my released tracks. Sad but truth.

 

I disagree OM. Via an specific label, you have the chance of being listened by that niche you talked about. But if you look at the number of hits you may get

in Youtube (6199, right now), you have the chance of being listened by a larger number of people - also remember that in Youtube you will reach outside the limited boundaries

of goa and psy. And as Elysium pointed - in either case you won't make money, but you will be not locked in a room with a formula, be it Etnica, be it AP.

[Procyon]

Procyon, Please regard this question very seriously: If the style, "Goa-Trance" did not exist, would make it up to as the description. You know of Goa, India and you know Trance music, would you use it? And, please explain your answer.

 

Thank you.

 

I don't have an answer to that DJ MXF, for whatever name I would come up with would not be 100% loyal, faithful, to what happened at those beaches.

But I have a suggestion for that: I love the sound of some words. And guess what, Goa and trance are two of my favorites. I have this idea of baptizing my future son or daughter as Goa.

And 'trance' is such a surreal word.

 

I agree with you that 'Goa trance' may not be the appropriate words for that style of music, but I don't think any other would be as perfect.

BTW, what would call it?

[Darkarbiter]

There is some excellent innovative neo goa around... but I'll give you a hint, it doesn't come from suntrip records, more from the darkpsy scene I believe.

[(OM)Open_Mind]

I want to remind you about good and pretty new acid goa from Filipe Santos.

It keep oldschool spirit and has made with proper technology.

I think it's good music, but again it's not so famous because it's free and not promoted.

 

http://www.psynews.org/forums/index.php?/topic/60141-chynacid-tofu-ep

 

http://www.psynews.org/forums/index.php?/topic/59127-beast303-controlled-ep-uafr009

[Penzoline]

There is some excellent innovative neo goa around... but I'll give you a hint, it doesn't come from suntrip records, more from the darkpsy scene I believe.

 

Do enlighten us. It's pretty pointless to make these type of claims without giving any examples.

[Rotwang]

Do enlighten us. It's pretty pointless to make these type of claims without giving any examples.

 

Don't know if this is what Darkarbiter had in mind, but his comment makes me think of the Kiriyama album.

[exotic]

Don't know if this is what Darkarbiter had in mind, but his comment makes me think of the Kiriyama album.

 

Thats pretty much spot on.

[(OM)Open_Mind]

Don't know if this is what Darkarbiter had in mind, but his comment makes me think of the Kiriyama album.

 

Wow... Thanks a lot. It have so much wicked dark energy.

Can't wait night to go in deep abyss with careful guide of Kiriyama.