Quantum Leap: We need to decide if the Genre is Psytrance or Goa Trance. Please help end the confusion and redundancy.

[djmaxfactor1995]

I think it is because people set the border between psy and goa differently. Or, as in your case if I understand that right, they don't set a border at all. Personal perception, happens also with other styles.

 

The only explanation that I have found that makes all of this possible, is that Goa Trance is a genre paradox. It is a genre that has no genre. It is music without music. Sound without sound. Tranceless Trance. Does this remind you of Bruce Lee's Tao? Fighting without Fighting. Form favors formlessness. Be like water.

 

Bruce Lee's Tao was more than fighting it was a way of living. Bruce Lee's Tao of Jeet Kun Do was necessary to form a new way of fighting and with martial arts a new way of thinking. Bruce Lee may imply a system without a system. But, he gives a handbook on why and how to do it. This type of Handbook does not accompany Goa Trance. For this, I don't believe we should bestow such nobility and honor to Goa Trance as one would to Jeet Kun Do.

 

What do you think?

[karan129]

I hear the difference between Zoa and Lastbus Madras. You are also contrasting 1994 to 2003. My issue is not that the music sounds good. It is the fact that no one can logically explain how there is such a difference to warrant separate labels. The only pattern I see is in the timeline: 1994-1996--Goa Trance; 1996-1998--Goa Trance, PsyTrance; 1999-2009--Psytrance; 2009-present--Psytrance, Goatrance. Many tracks released in 1996-1998 were labeled as both. This is what I need help with. Either there was an evolution of the sound and Goa Trance was not sufficient anymore and that is why psytrance became the label. Or, the production of Goa Trance ceased. And artists starting releasing Psytrance, instead. Or, As you suggest, there was such a difference in the way they sounded that a different style was necessary to properly classify the music. And that seems to be a very popular argument. And, if that is true, why did the production of Goa Trance cease by the end of the 90's. And, if such a difference exists, why are so many albums classified as one, the other, or both?

 

It's music so of course there is no "scientific definition" or rule. It goes by your ear. Yes, I choose those 2 tracks purposely because there is a clear difference between them. But to me Koxbox - Dragon Tales and Etnica - Alien Protein has a difference in styles. The later is more melodic, and the former is more bent on exploring weirder/different sounds and stitching them together. If you do not hear a difference, then it's your ears, your perception, and that's it.

[CoLoUr DoTZ]

A distinctive thing from psygoatrance music was always how different bands would sound from each other. They would all be under the same scene, but music was

always different and unpredictable. people could just guess the band listening to the music and know if it was, Xdream, GMS, Etnica,Hallucinogen, Quirk, Orion, Electric Universe, Tim Schuld, Sun Project, Psychaos, Hux Flux, Johan Bley, Darshan, Cosmosis, Space Cat, Space Tribe, Xerox & Freeman, Manmademan...bla...bla..bla.........bla

 

Now with all this labels it seems you already know what are you gonna get as soon as you enter the party or play the cd. The dont leave much space for the surprise element, what was a really nice feeling when coming into a party.

[Tatsu]

The only explanation that I have found that makes all of this possible, is that Goa Trance is a genre paradox. It is a genre that has no genre. It is music without music. Sound without sound. Tranceless Trance. Does this remind you of Bruce Lee's Tao? Fighting without Fighting. Form favors formlessness. Be like water.

 

Bruce Lee's Tao was more than fighting it was a way of living. Bruce Lee's Tao of Jeet Kun Do was necessary to form a new way of fighting and with martial arts a new way of thinking. Bruce Lee may imply a system without a system. But, he gives a handbook on why and how to do it. This type of Handbook does not accompany Goa Trance. For this, I don't believe we should bestow such nobility and honor to Goa Trance as one would to Jeet Kun Do.

 

What do you think?

 

Very interesting point of view, and a very philosophical one too. But since we're talking about art it makes sense somehow. I mean goa (or psy or both) is a way of living for some people so there is a connection.

 

To me personaly qualifying goa trance as a genre paradox just because we can't agree to a objective border between goa and psy feels wrong (which is a subjective feeling, not an objective one). But since music is art it all depends on your personal perception. In the end either you like the music or not, even when we don't have the same definitions for the terms we use, we are still able to talk about and give recommendations or whatever. Imho this is worth more than an universal definition of each style.

[djmaxfactor1995]

Very interesting point of view, and a very philosophical one too. But since we're talking about art it makes sense somehow. I mean goa (or psy or both) is a way of living for some people so there is a connection.

 

To me personaly qualifying goa trance as a genre paradox just because we can't agree to a objective border between goa and psy feels wrong (which is a subjective feeling, not an objective one). But since music is art it all depends on your personal perception. In the end either you like the music or not, even when we don't have the same definitions for the terms we use, we are still able to talk about and give recommendations or whatever. Imho this is worth more than an universal definition of each style.

 

I just heard this on you tube. Isn't this the holy grail of Goa trance? If it is I totally understand the difference. It is pretty easy to distinguish them. So Goa is really Goofy. That is how you separate them. So, X-Dream is really Goa trance evolving. I mean how can anyone misinterpret "Frog." So, follow x-dream and you will find Goa. Goa Trance=Disney Trance and PsyTrance = Looney (Tunes) Trance - Awesome. The way to distinguish is just look if it is a movie from Disney, it is Goa. If not Psy. Let's test it out. Escape from Witch Mountain=Disney; Slinky Wizard -Witch Juice = Goa. Easy so far. Okay, the lion king == loin king by infernal machine=Goa trance...let's keep going. This is a stretch but I like it: Cool Runnings

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDp40edRcdI

[djmaxfactor1995]

A distinctive thing from psygoatrance music was always how different bands would sound from each other. They would all be under the same scene, but music was

always different and unpredictable. people could just guess the band listening to the music and know if it was, Xdream, GMS, Etnica,Hallucinogen, Quirk, Orion, Electric Universe, Tim Schuld, Sun Project, Psychaos, Hux Flux, Johan Bley, Darshan, Cosmosis, Space Cat, Space Tribe, Xerox & Freeman, Manmademan...bla...bla..bla.........bla

 

Now with all this labels it seems you already know what are you gonna get as soon as you enter the party or play the cd. The dont leave much space for the surprise element, what was a really nice feeling when coming into a party.

 

HUH When I DJ'd parties, the mainstream had no clue. Unless you wanted to cater to the "Goa Elite." That small group of super-hippies or I like to call: The Ohm Men. With spandex bell bottoms and Hindu Ohm shirts that revealed their power under black lights. For some reason if you close your eyes...B.O. and patchouli Oil suffocated your olfactory nerves, just like all hippies. Damn Hippies.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTmb9EvQYGI

 

It's music so of course there is no "scientific definition" or rule. It goes by your ear. Yes, I choose those 2 tracks purposely because there is a clear difference between them. But to me Koxbox - Dragon Tales and Etnica - Alien Protein has a difference in styles. The later is more melodic, and the former is more bent on exploring weirder/different sounds and stitching them together. If you do not hear a difference, then it's your ears, your perception, and that's it.

 

Different Styles? No. Does Dragon Tales suck, yes!!! Is Alien Protein sick, yes!!!. So, if you base your style distinction on shitty and good, well that would be totally subjective. But, to say these LP's are different styles, no way. But, Alien Protein, Rocks. And, Dragon Tales is super weak, yes I agree.

Also, who here thinks that x-dream had the defining psytrance sound with Radio? Because, that is not a different sound it just sucks differently.

Is this the miscommunication that I am mistaking style differences for how good or bad an album is?

What do you like better Alien Protein or Dragon Tales? And what style do you define each?

[Tatsu]

I just heard this on you tube. Isn't this the holy grail of Goa trance? If it is I totally understand the difference. It is pretty easy to distinguish them. So Goa is really Goofy. That is how you separate them. So, X-Dream is really Goa trance evolving. I mean how can anyone misinterpret "Frog." So, follow x-dream and you will find Goa. Goa Trance=Disney Trance and PsyTrance = Looney (Tunes) Trance - Awesome. The way to distinguish is just look if it is a movie from Disney, it is Goa. If not Psy. Let's test it out. Escape from Witch Mountain=Disney; Slinky Wizard -Witch Juice = Goa. Easy so far. Okay, the lion king == loin king by infernal machine=Goa trance...let's keep going. This is a stretch but I like it: Cool Runnings

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDp40edRcdI

 

If the terms Disney Trance and Looney Tunes Trance where common in the scene talking like that would even make sense.

[ollylovesgoa]

This debate is really puzzling me, I always thought it was very easy to distinguish between psytrance and Goa.

Firstly, the bassline, Goa kicks are oomph, Psy kicks are bang-chica-bang-chica. The kick in Goa is far more subdued than in psytrance and gives less of a structure.

Secondly, Goa is older! The analogue synths! Goa was mainly made in the mid nineties, after that psytrance started to emerge with their metallic clanging sounds and monotony, it took a few years to get the melodies back in modern psytrance. (The exception is of course newschool Goa)

Goa sounds organic and can have eastern melodies, psy takes more influence from mainstream trance, e.g Yahel.

For me at least they are two distinct styles of trance and not one genre at all, what is Goa I call Goa, likewise for psy.

 

There are of course different sub styles withing Goa and psy. So to the guy saying that Koxbox and Etnica are different, yes! (They are both absolutely excellent, especially Etnica! <3) but they are both definetly Goa Trance.

[CoLoUr DoTZ]

HUH When I DJ'd parties, the mainstream had no clue. Unless you wanted to cater to the "Goa Elite." That small group of super-hippies or I like to call: The Ohm Men. With spandex bell bottoms and Hindu Ohm shirts that revealed their power under black lights. For some reason if you close your eyes...B.O. and patchouli Oil suffocated your olfactory nerves, just like all hippies. Damn Hippies.

 

 

 

Obviously not every single person in the room, but the distinction was there and many people could tell. People buying the music and interested on it further than a weekend party.

Looking at the same time to the techno scene, not even the djs could. This must be the new marco carola´s single yeah??? really hard to guess.....

 

Trance bands were so different to each other, and there was so much freedom at composing. Less rules bla bla bla..... But only 2 names for it, goa or psy, so always space for discovering new different stuff with in this limits. With all this labels and sub genres now, is like if someone would tell you the end of the movie before you play the cd, and like if the spectrum of music was narrower now.

 

To the initial question, no need to dump one of the them. Goa trance and Psy trance are the same, or really different to each other. The border between will be where each one wants to see it, depending on each one trance culture and understanding. And is really nice this way, as when someone comes with a cool new goa band, you might only guess what it´s coming.

 

So let me guess................. you don´t like hippies right???