Few questions about drugs, artists and music.

[deepXcode]

- Did at least 90% of all Goa trance pioneer musicians were using `psychedelic drugs` ?

(I`ve read here in the recent topic, about `darkpsy` if I recall right, that MFG were not using at all, or something like that)

 

- How did `psychedelic` effects in music were found? I`m not knowledgable enough to name them all correctly, but at least: flanger, fazer, `acid` ? Where people taking `psychedelic drugs` and just experimenting with sound ?

I remember I`ve read on Wikipedia about flanger (or fazer) that it was invented like decades ago when someone was copying music from one cassete to another and accidentally discovered this effect. Question: under drugs? Under drugs usage experience?

I`ve also read that TB-303 was developed as an electronic bass, in replacement to bass guitar which in it`s turn was replacement for the wooden contra-bass (if I name it right). But how it was discovered that you need to turn the knobs to the peak to get the most effective sound (that became called as `acid`). Under drugs again while just playing around with the device?

 

***

 

I think those are the most important ones for now. Maybe someone could enlighten me or point to the the right direction to search the answers at.

Thx.

 

Edit: For the first question, maybe the right figure is 99,9% ?

Edited May 21, 2011 by deepXcode

[Ormion]

I can't answer your questions, but IMO we must clarify if the old school artists just used psychedelic drugs (in parties etc.) or produced their tracks under the influence. Because I find hard to understand how someone can write a track while is under the influence of LSD for example.

I don't use drugs myself so someone could enlight me as well.

[Richpa]

Not this again. Waiting for Afgin to enlight us all about connection between psychedelic music and psychedelic drugs.

[Penzoline]

Not this again. Waiting for Afgin to enlight us all about connection between psychedelic music and psychedelic drugs.

 

At least it would be on topic this time, I actually would like for him to post here.

[travbrad1001]

Because I find hard to understand how someone can write a track while is under the influence of LSD for example.

 

It's not specific to psytrance, but I remember The Beatles said they tried writing music on LSD/drugs but it just turned out horrible (even if they thought it was great at the time). It clearly did influence their songwriting/production when sober though, as that's when they started doing more experimenting in the studio instead of just basically playing as a live band and recording it. I imagine it's probably similar for trance artists who have used psychedelic drugs. I know some tracks take weeks to complete, so I seriously doubt they are tripping the whole time.

 

"Psychedelic" doesn't have to mean drugs either, even though that's what it is commonly associated with. Psychedelic just means mind manifesting/expanding (weird unique ideas that challenge you)

[TranceVisuals]

I can't speak for anyone else, and I am not a musician, but I am a psychedelic VJ/artist, and having

been performing since 1999 at psychedelic/psytrance parties/nights/festivals.

For the first 3-4 years, I wouldn't perform unless I had a "heroic dose", as I thought it was the

right thing to do. I am at a psychedelic party, performing psychedelic graphics, to (nominally) psychedelic

music, with psychedelic inspired art/decor, with people mosbunal taking psychedelics... Hmmmm seemed the

most wonderful and natural thing in the world.

Then I found out that most DJs can't mix or do jack-shit whilst on LSD/mushrooms, and infact most of them

wouldn't take anything till after they performed, so concerned was their "ego" about their "performance" ;D

And infact most of them didn't take psychedelic anymore, at least this was of the pioneers around the

turn of the millenia.

A lot of the "pioneers" were also scared of damaging their reputation if it became common knowledge that there

didn't really do psychedelic anymore.

So I kind lost interest after a while, as it didn't seem as much fun and worthwhile, and less and less people

on the dancefloor where taking psychedelics anway, till by about 2003 it had mostly been driven out of the club/nights,

to only outdoor/festival occasions, this was in the UK, in my experience.

I do them less thesedays, and not at all recently, mostly due to being a full time dad, but in a few years when they

have grown up a little more, I look forward to knocking back some mushroom tea and hurtling through the cosmos, and

updating myself on what been going on in hyperspace in my absence, and maybe get some new inspiration for graphics.

 

P.s. The above isn't how it is, just how I experience and remembered it.

[Sideffect...]

Many artist in rock who are famous for their so called 'drug use'

like for example the rolling stones acknowledged that their best albums were made in sober periods.

 

Afterwards playing them live on drugs may have been lot's of joy.

 

But producing/writing at such a level, it seems impossible.

 

They are artist, who claimed to have made their album pure on drugs, but often those artist do not produce a second album that's is as good as the previous.

 

It's more like a 'lucky shot'. The right time and drugs can give the opportunity. I believe that. But it's still "one" lucky shot.

[deepXcode]

Well, I am expecting the replies to be more relevant to my exact questions please.

 

My main curiocity is to discover how the sound was born used in the music genre known as Goa-trance.

 

It`s not very important if all the pioneer tracks were created during the effect time of `drugs`. The most important for me know, wether 99,9% (or how many?) of pioneer producers ever tried `psychedelic drugs` and ever tried listening music under their effect before creating own tracks.

 

And if it`s true, that the majority of pioneer Goa-trance producers first tried `psychedelics` with music, what was that music exactly? And same question about the origination of the sound of `that` music and so on and on.

 

I want to discover the whole chain please! I don`t think it would be too large as it should most likely relate to 1-2 centuries of `human history`.

 

Maybe someone can help.

Thx.

 

Edit: About the half of these questions (if not all) relate to `Music Making and Production/Industry` subforum I believe, but still, from the general, investigative perspective.

Edited May 22, 2011 by deepXcode

[Sideffect...]

I want to discover the whole chain please! I

 

I don't think that possible to be honest.

 

 

Even if you had enough people 'who were there".

 

I don't think anybody felt the need of keeping track which sound was discovered by who at that certain time in that certain time period.

 

You are also asking for information from a time period when internet, media etc... was not as it is today.

 

 

[deepXcode]

I don't think that possible to be honest.

 

 

Even if you had enough people 'who were there".

 

I don't think anybody felt the need of keeping track which sound was discovered by who at that certain time in that certain time period.

 

You are also asking for information from a time period when internet, media etc... was not as it is today.

 

Hmm why not?

 

Anyone ever played a game from Civilization ® series, they might know that there is the `Investigation` section (or Science). Thus, to build a train, you need to first discover the wheel, then the horse riding, then..., then iron, then..., finally train.

 

Transorming the same approach to music, I want to discover the chain to look something like (just as a brief example):

 

- In the prehistoric you need to invent the percussion and flute. then..., then in 17th century a violine and a-likes, then..., then in 19th century a contra-bass, in 20th - electronic bass TB-303, then you need to take certain drug and play with knobs and listen to Disco (or some other exact electronic genge) and invent a new music style called `acid house`, then..., then you need to go to Goa and take LSD and listen to some techno, acid house and EBM and finally create Goa-trance track

 

This should give an idea of what exactly I am looking for. I believe, it's possible to disover all this by your own just by listening to various tracks of different electronic music genres of the past centuries... But maybe someone can already show the turning and key points.

[Sideffect...]

That is your call, which I respect, don't get me wrong...

 

I would rather not know it, because it is irrelevant to how I, between quotes experience music.

 

Let's say I don't care how much bananas or acid goa gil had up it's ass when he created his first mix

[deepXcode]

Well, I will open all of my cards now.

 

There are 2 main goals:

 

After discovering the whole chain:

 

- try to imagine another, which would lead to exactly the same Goa-trance (at it's best), same states of mind, but absolutely without drugs involved (at least in the past centuries)

- try to imagine how the music would sound if all of the Goa-trance artists would follow ONLY their native instruments as the base for sound synthesys. And create this music based on my own nation.

 

This would be 100% psychedelic (as spirit manifestation) sound's cuncopia!

 

As currently you have Finnish musician using African drum sample, Israeli using Serb's native vocals and so on and on and on not even mentioning everyone using India's all the various things..

 

I want to found more treausers, more richness!

 

But to do this, I need to find the places, where there were choices and humans chosen the limitation path.. I want to come back and choose real cuncopia!

[Veracohr]

- How did `psychedelic` effects in music were found? I`m not knowledgable enough to name them all correctly, but at least: flanger, fazer, `acid` ? Where people taking `psychedelic drugs` and just experimenting with sound ?

I remember I`ve read on Wikipedia about flanger (or fazer) that it was invented like decades ago when someone was copying music from one cassete to another and accidentally discovered this effect. Question: under drugs? Under drugs usage experience?

I`ve also read that TB-303 was developed as an electronic bass, in replacement to bass guitar which in it`s turn was replacement for the wooden contra-bass (if I name it right). But how it was discovered that you need to turn the knobs to the peak to get the most effective sound (that became called as `acid`). Under drugs again while just playing around with the device?

'Legend' has it the flange effect was discovered by accident during a Jimi Hendrix recording session. They had two tape decks going - professional reel-to-reel tape decks not cassettes! - that had the same thing playing from both decks. Someone accidentally leaned against the edge of the reel of tape (which is called the flange) on one deck, causing it to slow down slightly. So instead of two identical tracks playing at once, one of them became slightly delayed and detuned. Later it was discovered how to do this electronically and the rest is history.

 

The phaser/phasor/fazer, which is short for phase shifter, isn't terribly different from a flanger electronically. I don't know the history there, but I'm going to guess there was never any mechanical precursor to the electronic phase shifter. Phase shift circuits are used in many ways that have nothing to do with music.

 

'Acid' is not an effect. People kind of use the word that way now but it's just an evolution of word from the genre name "acid house", which is recognized as being the first genre overall to use the TB-303 in that way. The 303 was not deveoped to "replace a bass guitar", it was just made to be a bass synth. There are a few things which together contribute to the "303 sound" - a 3-pole low pass filter when all other synths up to that point used 2- or 4-pole filters; I've heard it said the filter was designed in an unusual way although I've got the schematic and I can't tell how; the character of the glide/portamento; the Accent control, which bumps up the amplifier output as well as the filter cutoff and is kind of an unusual feature. But the main aspect of the 'acid' sound is the filter; when you turn the resonance way up it gets funky. Most analog low-pass filters on synths will do this, but depending on the design they may not react exactly the same way. I see no reason to think someone was on 'drugs' when they discovered this. You get a new synth, you want to play with the buttons & knobs! It just wasn't until the acid house producers that someone thought that screeching sound might actually be useful.

 

What's with the drug fixation?

 

Edit: forgot to mention one thing. Flangers and phase shifters both basically do the same thing: create comb filters. This means lots of narrow frequency notches throughout the spectrum. As the delay time is modulated these notches move around. A comb filter effect is a natural result of mixing a small-delayed (ie. too small to hear distinct repetitions) signal with the original on a wideband signal.

[Sideffect...]

'Legend' has it the flange effect was discovered by accident during a Jimi Hendrix recording session. They had two tape decks going - professional reel-to-reel tape decks not cassettes! - that had the same thing playing from both decks. Someone accidentally leaned against the edge of the reel of tape (which is called the flange) on one deck, causing it to slow down slightly. So instead of two identical tracks playing at once, one of them became slightly delayed and detuned. Later it was discovered how to do this electronically and the rest is history.

 

The phaser/phasor/fazer, which is short for phase shifter, isn't terribly different from a flanger electronically. I don't know the history there, but I'm going to guess there was never any mechanical precursor to the electronic phase shifter. Phase shift circuits are used in many ways that have nothing to do with music.

 

'Acid' is not an effect. People kind of use the word that way now but it's just an evolution of word from the genre name "acid house", which is recognized as being the first genre overall to use the TB-303 in that way. The 303 was not deveoped to "replace a bass guitar", it was just made to be a bass synth. There are a few things which together contribute to the "303 sound" - a 3-pole low pass filter when all other synths up to that point used 2- or 4-pole filters; I've heard it said the filter was designed in an unusual way although I've got the schematic and I can't tell how; the character of the glide/portamento; the Accent control, which bumps up the amplifier output as well as the filter cutoff and is kind of an unusual feature. But the main aspect of the 'acid' sound is the filter; when you turn the resonance way up it gets funky. Most analog low-pass filters on synths will do this, but depending on the design they may not react exactly the same way. I see no reason to think someone was on 'drugs' when they discovered this. You get a new synth, you want to play with the buttons & knobs! It just wasn't until the acid house producers that someone thought that screeching sound might actually be useful.

 

That's what I meant, that is interesting, the first paragraph I knew, the rest not. Thanx for sharing!

 

 

 

What's with the drug fixation?

 

Indeed, I don't see the point to know, like I said before, how many drugs an artist took to create a certain album or track!

 

Independent if it's rock, goatrance, reggae etc...

 

How stoned was Bob Marley when he song his first tracks?

[Ormion]

Cool post Veracohr.

Anyone knows which was the very first track that use 303?

[Sideffect...]

Anyone knows which was the very first track that use 303?

 

In the late '80s and early 90's, as new Acid styles emerged, the TB-303 was often overdriven, producing a harsher sound.

Examples of this technique include Phuture's 1987 "Acid Tracks" (sometimes known as "Acid Trax"), Hardfloor's 1992 EP "Acperience" and Interlect 3000's 1993 EP "Volcano".

 

source : http://en.wikipedia....i/Roland_TB-303

 

 

[deepXcode]

Now, we've got at least something! Great.

 

What's with the drug fixation?

 

I want to get the chain of both music and the human 'mind' progression. They are as euqal important to get one big picture.

[Veracohr]

Anyone knows which was the very first track that use 303?

 

First to use it period or in the screechy acid way?

 

Ten Ragas to a Disco Beat from 1982 used it just months after it was released in 1981, but not in a screechy acid way.

[Sideffect...]

They are as euqal important

 

True!

 

 

and the human 'mind' progression.

 

There is not enough valid or representative data/info to put that in algorithms, paradigm's, avenues...

 

It took mankind centuries to reveal the top of the ice berg when it comes to progression of the human mind (psychoanalysis, cognition...)

 

It's hard to believe that one could go back in time and discover all variables that were active, their level of influence...

 

It would be some kind Anthropology. It isn't ages ago but mankind has developed so fast the last 60-70 years it would take your entire life to do it properly!

[healium]

I'm not a musician but it is my understanding that the psychedelics were used/are more for inspiration rather than being used while actually writing the music..

 

I bet there is a fair amount of cannabis use involved while actually sitting in the studio composing tracks though - that counts as a psychedelic - surely affects music like one, but also leaves one more "functional" in certain ways..

 

I could see musicians having great success with psychedelics such as LSD, Mescaline, 2C-B, etc by using a *small* dose - like 1/4 what they might take for a full experience - at low doses I would think those substances could be very valuable for music creation and they would leave one able to work the machines/computer and whatever else..

 

The whole class of "2C-x" phenethylamines (2C-B, 2C-I, 2C-E, 2C-C, 2C-D, etc) and "DOx" phenethylamines (DOB, DOI, DOC, DOET, DOM) I think could be very useful, because they leave the mind and ego more or less intact, while still expanding consciousness/awareness, and in a way that plays strongly on the perception of music/sound..