Spiritualism and drugs in the psytrance scene

[djmaxfactor1995]

Cleaned up from the other one to a new thread.

-Penzoline

 

With respect, this whole thread is about aspects of the re-emergence of the Goa Trance sound, which everyone else writing here seems to take for granted is actually happening, if in some small way and gradually over a period of years. And it seems obvious to me that the majority of people writing music in any genre of music will no longer be doing so 12-15 years later. I don't know if what we do nowadays would be called Goa Trance, but then not all of our output in the 90s would be recognisable now to people who only have a small, well-defined pigeonhole in their heads labelled 'Goa Trance'. But there is most definitely a direct connection for us between the music we write nowadays and the music we wrote back then.

 

Psy/GoaArtistAndDJColinOOOD1993

 

I think what happened with the financial bullshit in the beginning totally typical of performing electronic music. I think many people believe that Composing and DJing this music is all sweet and smiles. But, they don't know the dark side. The side that makes you want to choke the promoter or the sound guy or the DJ before you. They don't know the financial, mental, and physical disasters that lurk around each gig. But, I must say, you guys rock. You have to see it from my perspective as a DJ in S.F. . Psychic Deli releases Deck Wizards 001 - compilation vinyl. wtf? Do you know how much vinyl dj's despise multitrack pressings? the sound quality is in the gutter. too many tracks means smaller tracks to squeeze on the disc so when you mix from an EP or Single to LP or Complilation it is like someone hit the amp in the balls. Anyway, VA-comps were the reason that the whole thing failed. But, we were so picky when we got records, so we see a major player like flying rhino (flying dung) really all the releases they had and only a few good. Like Unconscious Collective--fucking rocked. Then Psychic Deli with Deck Wizards -- Goa Gil??? Could not even look psychic deli seriously again. And Kundalini is a pseudonym for tehnossomy released on top of your Kundalini and btw another thing about Goa...you see how much Religious symbolism flooded the market. snake, kundalini, slinky wizard, prana, chakra, spiritual this and spiritual that. I don't give a shit about religion. Especially a horrific one of inequality and murder. Please, enough with the Hindu bullshit.

Then your Krishna-like label gets shredded or should I say cabbaged. But not in the good way. So you see, of your releases, I own Unconscious Collective. Who I had no idea was you until now.

And as you state, you don't know if what you write today would be considered Goa Trance except to a few. I think that you know exactly what happened with the Goa Trance scene. It ridden like a 2 dollar whore in a 10 dollar part of town. It was played out like Disney Land. It wasn't killed, it committed suicide. The only chance your gonna see is if BRAHMA LAND opens up in Florida. Next to Jesus Land. It is done. You know it, I know it, we all know it. That is crucial. Goa was a marketing strategy, as you know marketing = death of all that is holy. Let's be honest, shall we. It was and is all about getting high and listening to music. Who really had some religious experience that can be aligned with Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam. Jainism, Taoism, Scientology, etc.? No one. Why, because anyone who learned anything on this psychedelic circus knows that those are all control mechanisms and what we know as spiritual enlightenment is that it is indescribable. And, therefore, irreligious.

What we need to do is stop the denial of drugs. The stigma that we cover up with religion and spirituality leads us away from our path. One big part of this path, I know is true for all of us that enjoy, especially this music, is the need to destroy the drug stigma. Drugs are not bad. M'KAY. shit you had a cabbaged Krishna on your first album. what kind of cognitive dissonance is that? Let's all evolve and lose the whole Goa stigma. IMO.

[Tatsu]

From my personal experience this scene is the one that denies drugs by far the least. For the good and the bad that comes with that...

[djmaxfactor1995]

From my personal experience this scene is the one that denies drugs by far the least. For the good and the bad that comes with that...

 

You think that. But, do you really take the whole drug thing home? Do you let your kids believe you, or what is advertised. I don't know if the war on drugs is purely american. But, you have to see the irony. Drug-Free America? There never was one. And, Drugs are bad except Booze and Cigarettes? One friend smokes pot, another drinks and smokes cigarettes. The pot smoker wanted to go to the drinker's house and light up. The drinker told the pot smoker that he couldn't because his younger nephew was coming over. So, the nephew would be there as the drinker, drank beer and smoked cigarettes. But the potsmoker was not allowed over. Do you see the problem here? This is not a local phenomena. It is everywhere. We do nothing, except secretly hide it. And, yes more than any other.

[Tatsu]

You think that. But, do you really take the whole drug thing home? Do you let your kids believe you, or what is advertised. I don't know if the war on drugs is purely american. But, you have to see the irony. Drug-Free America? There never was one. And, Drugs are bad except Booze and Cigarettes? One friend smokes pot, another drinks and smokes cigarettes. The pot smoker wanted to go to the drinker's house and light up. The drinker told the pot smoker that he couldn't because his younger nephew was coming over. So, the nephew would be there as the drinker, drank beer and smoked cigarettes. But the potsmoker was not allowed over. Do you see the problem here? This is not a local phenomena. It is everywhere. We do nothing, except secretly hide it. And, yes more than any other.

 

I see the problem but maybe you should not set some personal experiences from your surrounding as standart for the whole scene or even the world.

[TranceVisuals]

....Who really had some religious experience that can be aligned with Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam. Jainism, Taoism, Scientology, etc.? No one....

 

Me for one.

If you understood, and had actually read the books/scriptures and dialogues(which is ongoing) and had some real mystical experiences, then you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss its connection with psychedelics/higher(sic) states of consciousness etc.

Sure you might not be interested, but don't slander and put down those of us who are.

[Colin OOOD]

I think what happened with the financial bullshit in the beginning totally typical of performing electronic music. I think many people believe that Composing and DJing this music is all sweet and smiles. But, they don't know the dark side. The side that makes you want to choke the promoter or the sound guy or the DJ before you. They don't know the financial, mental, and physical disasters that lurk around each gig. But, I must say, you guys rock. You have to see it from my perspective as a DJ in S.F. . Psychic Deli releases Deck Wizards 001 - compilation vinyl. wtf? Do you know how much vinyl dj's despise multitrack pressings? the sound quality is in the gutter. too many tracks means smaller tracks to squeeze on the disc so when you mix from an EP or Single to LP or Complilation it is like someone hit the amp in the balls. Anyway, VA-comps were the reason that the whole thing failed. But, we were so picky when we got records, so we see a major player like flying rhino (flying dung) really all the releases they had and only a few good. Like Unconscious Collective--fucking rocked. Then Psychic Deli with Deck Wizards -- Goa Gil??? Could not even look psychic deli seriously again. And Kundalini is a pseudonym for tehnossomy released on top of your Kundalini and btw another thing about Goa...you see how much Religious symbolism flooded the market. snake, kundalini, slinky wizard, prana, chakra, spiritual this and spiritual that. I don't give a shit about religion. Especially a horrific one of inequality and murder. Please, enough with the Hindu bullshit.

Then your Krishna-like label gets shredded or should I say cabbaged. But not in the good way. So you see, of your releases, I own Unconscious Collective. Who I had no idea was you until now.

And as you state, you don't know if what you write today would be considered Goa Trance except to a few. I think that you know exactly what happened with the Goa Trance scene. It ridden like a 2 dollar whore in a 10 dollar part of town. It was played out like Disney Land. It wasn't killed, it committed suicide. The only chance your gonna see is if BRAHMA LAND opens up in Florida. Next to Jesus Land. It is done. You know it, I know it, we all know it. That is crucial. Goa was a marketing strategy, as you know marketing = death of all that is holy. Let's be honest, shall we. It was and is all about getting high and listening to music. Who really had some religious experience that can be aligned with Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam. Jainism, Taoism, Scientology, etc.? No one. Why, because anyone who learned anything on this psychedelic circus knows that those are all control mechanisms and what we know as spiritual enlightenment is that it is indescribable. And, therefore, irreligious.

What we need to do is stop the denial of drugs. The stigma that we cover up with religion and spirituality leads us away from our path. One big part of this path, I know is true for all of us that enjoy, especially this music, is the need to destroy the drug stigma. Drugs are not bad. M'KAY. shit you had a cabbaged Krishna on your first album. what kind of cognitive dissonance is that? Let's all evolve and lose the whole Goa stigma. IMO.

 

Ok so that's your opinion - a very cynical, glass-half-empty-so-I'm-gonna-throw-the-rest-away opinion. I'm sorry you never got out of the music and the scene what there was to get when it was being given in the original spirit of the now-cliché PLUR. But that doesn't mean it was never there for others. The 'stigma' is purely in your own head, and if you can see that then you'll be able to let go of whatever it is inside you that makes you angry when you see other people discussing things like this. But in the meantime, and as I've said before, please carry on mistaking your opinions for irrefutable facts if that pleases you.

 

And no, we never had a Krishna of any kind on our first album artwork; we've never had any religious imagery at all where we've had a choice. The original art for aLIVE was designed by someone else, and we never had a choice or any input. (It's a cabbaged Shiva Nataraj, anyway, not a Krishna).

[Time_Trap]

You think that. But, do you really take the whole drug thing home? Do you let your kids believe you, or what is advertised. I don't know if the war on drugs is purely american. But, you have to see the irony. Drug-Free America? There never was one. And, Drugs are bad except Booze and Cigarettes? One friend smokes pot, another drinks and smokes cigarettes. The pot smoker wanted to go to the drinker's house and light up. The drinker told the pot smoker that he couldn't because his younger nephew was coming over. So, the nephew would be there as the drinker, drank beer and smoked cigarettes. But the potsmoker was not allowed over. Do you see the problem here? This is not a local phenomena. It is everywhere. We do nothing, except secretly hide it. And, yes more than any other.

 

Not really, some European countries have legal/semi-legal cannabis and other substances (Spain,portugal,netherlands,Czech)

[djmaxfactor1995]

Ok so that's your opinion - a very cynical, glass-half-empty-so-I'm-gonna-throw-the-rest-away opinion. I'm sorry you never got out of the music and the scene what there was to get when it was being given in the original spirit of the now-cliché PLUR. But that doesn't mean it was never there for others. The 'stigma' is purely in your own head, and if you can see that then you'll be able to let go of whatever it is inside you that makes you angry when you see other people discussing things like this. But in the meantime, and as I've said before, please carry on mistaking your opinions for irrefutable facts if that pleases you.

 

And no, we never had a Krishna of any kind on our first album artwork; we've never had any religious imagery at all where we've had a choice. The original art for aLIVE was designed by someone else, and we never had a choice or any input. (It's a cabbaged Shiva Nataraj, anyway, not a Krishna).

 

I really enjoy your proper reply. It reminds me of my DJ partner and best friend, whom I owe much of this music experience. And he would probably say that he owes me a great deal in gear and as a shaman. But, friends don't owe each other anything. Friends are based on friendship not points. But, he was much better at behaving politically correct in society. I just don't care. I do, but I don't like to obfuscate the message. So, I just sound cynical and negative. But, I am not really. One thing I have learned, you must lost everything and make sure your sense of humor remembers that it is hysterical. So, then you can laugh like the comedown of 3 hits of lsd as the valium cushions your fall and you find yourself looking for bloody mary ingredients in a huge grocery store with your friends. The laughing is exascerbated by the glimpse of your friend in the next aisle. AT that point you are flooding tears from laughing so hard and you are pretty much helpless. That is how serious I can take this topic. So, don't worry about me. You should just be hyped on the compliment that I gave you. I would. BTW, Avatar of Vishnu is Krishna...like I would publish something that lame and be wrong. You never had a choice? I thought everything was awesome. All Glow sticks ahead. If you can't relate to what I was saying about the Murphy's law of DJing or performing, you have led a charmed career, and I have no idea how you did it. I also give mad props for being able to create anything besides migraines with a 40Mhz 386 PC with Cubase score as your midi sequencer!! Wow. How many times did that crash? I remember trying to use Logic with all external midi and I worked at Guitar Center's Keyboard's and Pro Audio Dept. in S.F. I was MIDI Certified and I still could not make the rig you list operate. Now, with the advance in technology!!!!!! This is where I see the return of Psychonaut. The Neurosynthesentient Nocturnal Trancemissions are ready for leadership. That is the big empty space that no one is willing to grab this bad mutha and command. C'mon all you mutha fuckers...listen all you mutha fuckas. You know what I am saying, we need some leadership and motivation. The music that everyone complains about polluting psytrance. That is not the artists fault. That is the DJ. I can take two of those predictable tracks and mix the DJ back into the room. No wonder it's so cerebral and hollow emphatic. There is the holy trinity remember. Composer, DJ, and The Audience. Without one, none survive. So, Let's do it OOOD. NO rules; just sex, drugs and rock and roll. NO PIGS and NO SQUARES ALOUD. Would you want someone praying for you? Or handcuffing your hands together for attrition? That is the square pig. You guys are champions of trance. Take one thing from Hinduism and Reincarnate yourselves. Don't leave it up to the select few that don't even represent us. That is a reason that you may not see behind the decks. But Goa is like a secret club and only certain people have access and that doesn't make it mysterious, that makes it suck. FREE ACCESS TO ALL(except pigs and priests). Obviously not allowing all to be welcome, makes things weird and irreparable. Except, no hippies. I don't care. Unless, they have money, they are not aloud. Money is like kryptonite to hippies. Blah, blah, blah....enough ranting already. Peace out. OH BTW, I always used psy as psychological not psychedelic. I don't know why it became psychedelic. It is about the mind, not the psychoactive chemicals. I thought that was obvious.

[djmaxfactor1995]

Not really, some European countries have legal/semi-legal cannabis and other substances (Spain,portugal,netherlands,Czech)

 

Wrong. Cannabis is not legal in any country, except ONE. Every other country it has been decriminalized, maybe, but not legalized. In Amsterdam it is illegal to smoke weed. Why else would you go to a coffee shop and press a big red button that reveals the menu and then you order it. But the coffee shop does not really sell marijuana. it just has a red button and a cashier. The money is received as a tax, or reparation for society. I believe you are limited to growing three plants. And, the countries you are referring makes your argument irrelevant. How does that help anyone else in the world. How does that help us as humans change our view of drugs? We celebrate booze and cigarettes and incarcerate a non violent drug user. And, we put all drugs as equal. You know and I know that Alcohol and Cigarettes kill more people, cause more domestic violence, more psychological abuse than all other drugs, combined. But, you eat mushrooms, you are a criminal. You drink a beer and smoke a fag, you are cool. But, forget all I said. I thought I the readers' of this post were more flexible and free thinking.

 

The only country that does not have a law for or against marijuana? CHINA. A communist oligarchy that is less free than the west. Really? Pot smoking is legal. Chinese people are less free? HMM? Something is not right. Your own supposedly free country is not free. Unless, you do as they tell you. But,that is another topic for another time. First things, first, maestro: sex, drugs. and psy-trance, please.

 

Me for one.

If you understood, and had actually read the books/scriptures and dialogues(which is ongoing) and had some real mystical experiences, then you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss its connection with psychedelics/higher(sic) states of consciousness etc.

Sure you might not be interested, but don't slander and put down those of us who are.

 

My bad, I didn't realize that enlightenment and inequality could co-exist. And what I was referring to is RELIGION. Not God or Spirituality. Religion does not teach God or Spirituality -- if you read the scriptures. The only entity qualified to guide you to those answers is you. YOU, yourself, and no one else. Knows you as you do. That is where we begin our spiritual awakening.

"I am learning to understand rather than immediately judge or to be judged. I cannot blindly follow the crowd and accept their approach. I will not allow myself to indulge in the usual manipulating game of role creation. Fortunately for me, my self-knowledge has transcended that and I have come to understand that life is best to be lived and not to be conceptualized. I am happy because I am growing daily and I am honestly not knowing where the limit lies. To be certain, every day there can be a revelation or a new discovery. I treasure the memory of the past misfortunes. It has added more to my bank of fortitude."--Bruce Lee

I am sure the scriptures all start with self-knowledge. But they always end the same. Instead of know the self. it will say know thy self so that ye may see god...blah, blah, blah. Religion immediately seeks to separate and devalue your life. That is what religion does. It functions to control the way a human believes he or she can live. Again, do you not see the flaw in this. As most of you state that I regard my own experience as a generalization of all the people's experience. You are right, everyone experiences life differently. But, I use flawed assumptions to create a discussion of intelligence. So, if I say something that you would almost laugh at or mock, yet you hold back and are polite and reasonable, what I am doing is successful. Because only in the crudest presentations can we see everything and then we can chip away at it until it is perfect, like a sculptor. A sculptor does not add clay to create, he or she removes the layers of earth until its perfection reveals itself.

"RELIGION TEACHES INEQUALITY. GOD DOES NOT PERCEIVE SUCH A THING." -- Me.(and you know it's true cuz it's in caps)

[Jason Pandanandi]

Alright, well, I'm out of this thread.

 

I'm a practicing Shakta in an ultra-traditional guru lineage from W. Bengal, and I'm more committed to that than I am any music scene - especially one with arrogant folks like DJMax whatever. Spirituality and religion is my life; trance comes second. The fact that I'm into both goa and hinduism is a coincidence anyway; I'm not too fond of the surface-level-attraction to eastern religion that most goa displays.

 

I learned long ago that I have nothing to prove and no-one to convert... and that said, I also have no reason to dialogue with people who disagree as to the nature of religion when their minds are already made up and hateful.

 

Sorry, guys. I've got priorities... maybe I'll be back when I release some tracks.

 

Peace.

 

GoaArtist&DJ&DurgaDevoteeJasonPandanandi2005

[Time_Trap]

Wrong. Cannabis is not legal in any country, except ONE. Every other country it has been decriminalized, maybe, but not legalized. In Amsterdam it is illegal to smoke weed. Why else would you go to a coffee shop and press a big red button that reveals the menu and then you order it. But the coffee shop does not really sell marijuana. it just has a red button and a cashier. The money is received as a tax, or reparation for society. I believe you are limited to growing three plants. And, the countries you are referring makes your argument irrelevant. How does that help anyone else in the world. How does that help us as humans change our view of drugs? We celebrate booze and cigarettes and incarcerate a non violent drug user. And, we put all drugs as equal. You know and I know that Alcohol and Cigarettes kill more people, cause more domestic violence, more psychological abuse than all other drugs, combined. But, you eat mushrooms, you are a criminal. You drink a beer and smoke a fag, you are cool. But, forget all I said. I thought I the readers' of this post were more flexible and free thinking.

 

The only country that does not have a law for or against marijuana? CHINA. A communist oligarchy that is less free than the west. Really? Pot smoking is legal. Chinese people are less free? HMM? Something is not right. Your own supposedly free country is not free. Unless, you do as they tell you. But,that is another topic for another time. First things, first, maestro: sex, drugs. and psy-trance, please.

 

 

So why did you jump into the conclusion that I agree with the current views on substances , or that I think we are really free? I pretty much agree with what you say ,and I have had enough experience with substances myself (mostly psychedelics).Why this rant ? You even imply I am not flexible or free thinking ... ?

[ollylovesgoa]

Just want to put it out there that I am really not sure what, djmaxfactor, you are trying to say. You are mostly ranting about political ideals and your hatred of religion whilst arguing that this particular trance scene needs desperately to stop identifying itself with anything at all beyond the sound itself, particularly political ideals and religion.

 

I think there's no smoke without fire, the huge amount of symbolism in Goa trance has become commercialised, but it comes from somewhere. I still go to parties and trance out, and although I don't take psychedelics anymore, I still believe it is a deeply spiritual experience to be in a party with a load of lovely people having a damn good time to some complex music. What is so wrong with that?

[Ormion]

Cleaned up from the other one to a new thread.

-Penzoline

 

 

 

I think what happened with the financial bullshit in the beginning totally typical of performing electronic music. I think many people believe that Composing and DJing this music is all sweet and smiles. But, they don't know the dark side. The side that makes you want to choke the promoter or the sound guy or the DJ before you. They don't know the financial, mental, and physical disasters that lurk around each gig. But, I must say, you guys rock. You have to see it from my perspective as a DJ in S.F. . Psychic Deli releases Deck Wizards 001 - compilation vinyl. wtf? Do you know how much vinyl dj's despise multitrack pressings? the sound quality is in the gutter. too many tracks means smaller tracks to squeeze on the disc so when you mix from an EP or Single to LP or Complilation it is like someone hit the amp in the balls. Anyway, VA-comps were the reason that the whole thing failed. But, we were so picky when we got records, so we see a major player like flying rhino (flying dung) really all the releases they had and only a few good. Like Unconscious Collective--fucking rocked. Then Psychic Deli with Deck Wizards -- Goa Gil??? Could not even look psychic deli seriously again. And Kundalini is a pseudonym for tehnossomy released on top of your Kundalini and btw another thing about Goa...you see how much Religious symbolism flooded the market. snake, kundalini, slinky wizard, prana, chakra, spiritual this and spiritual that. I don't give a shit about religion. Especially a horrific one of inequality and murder. Please, enough with the Hindu bullshit.

Then your Krishna-like label gets shredded or should I say cabbaged. But not in the good way. So you see, of your releases, I own Unconscious Collective. Who I had no idea was you until now.

And as you state, you don't know if what you write today would be considered Goa Trance except to a few. I think that you know exactly what happened with the Goa Trance scene. It ridden like a 2 dollar whore in a 10 dollar part of town. It was played out like Disney Land. It wasn't killed, it committed suicide. The only chance your gonna see is if BRAHMA LAND opens up in Florida. Next to Jesus Land. It is done. You know it, I know it, we all know it. That is crucial. Goa was a marketing strategy, as you know marketing = death of all that is holy. Let's be honest, shall we. It was and is all about getting high and listening to music. Who really had some religious experience that can be aligned with Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam. Jainism, Taoism, Scientology, etc.? No one. Why, because anyone who learned anything on this psychedelic circus knows that those are all control mechanisms and what we know as spiritual enlightenment is that it is indescribable. And, therefore, irreligious.

What we need to do is stop the denial of drugs. The stigma that we cover up with religion and spirituality leads us away from our path. One big part of this path, I know is true for all of us that enjoy, especially this music, is the need to destroy the drug stigma. Drugs are not bad. M'KAY. shit you had a cabbaged Krishna on your first album. what kind of cognitive dissonance is that? Let's all evolve and lose the whole Goa stigma. IMO.

 

I really don't get what are you trying to say. That the whole Hinduism trend in Goa is something that killed the scene or something?

[djmaxfactor1995]

Just want to put it out there that I am really not sure what, djmaxfactor, you are trying to say. You are mostly ranting about political ideals and your hatred of religion whilst arguing that this particular trance scene needs desperately to stop identifying itself with anything at all beyond the sound itself, particularly political ideals and religion.

 

I think there's no smoke without fire, the huge amount of symbolism in Goa trance has become commercialized, but it comes from somewhere. I still go to parties and trance out, and although I don't take psychedelics anymore, I still believe it is a deeply spiritual experience to be in a party with a load of lovely people having a damn good time to some complex music. What is so wrong with that?

 

The only thing we can do is honor ourselves and our quality of life. That means, free access to any tool that gives us the best experience possible. Sometimes that tool is a stereo, a headphone splitter, two headphones, 2CB, and Simon Posford, and of course a friend's bathroom. I have been to those wannabe Goa parties and I look around and I am disgusted. First, there are hippies. There are super weak set designs that force you to take some mind altering substance. Not to trip off it. Just to escape. And then if there is a time you want to dance, you are constantly elbowed and your dance space is taken over by some spaztic hippie that never stepped in the space you were until you started dancing. These Jacob's Ladder looking demons don't attempt to apologize, or even make you visible. Now, am I the only one that has had this experience? And the DJ has pretty much been replaced by an automated non-stop barrage of the most full-on psy-trance that is only mixed in the same sense an ipod shuffle cross-fades the end and beginning of each track, and this goes on for at least twelve hours. I have recently hypothesized that the DJ is to blame for the far less good music today. If the DJ does not present the music in a way that makes the music better, he is not doing his job. Or her job. The rhetoric of Goa Gil that the music is so good by itself the mixing or beatmaching is not really important is insulting to the composer, the DJ, and the audience. This music is multi-layered, but I can prove that proper mixing will bring your appreciation to a whole new level. This role of the DJ is intrinsic to the quality of the music that is released. If a DJ only plays full on psy, one after the other. What do you think is going to be produced. Exactly what most of you have been complaining about. So, if my theory is correct, this again is not my own experience. Also, I can use the same full on tracks and mix them in a way that does not make them predictable, and monotonous. The way a DJ mixes varies and is great, but rarely, have I witnessed the same mixing of music with any other scene. Does Doc Martin, mix like that. Does DJ Dan? Does Fatboy Slim? Carl Cox?

Now, this mixing drives the audience toward a certain direction, it gives the composer more ideas, and the music evolves. And this is because mixing is a way to mutate the music without actually changing it. So, some mutations don't thrive as others and as natural selection works, the better mutation is passed on. Does this make sense?

So, you can't blame the artists/composers if they have no way to understand what the audience wants, when the audience is allowing the DJ to represent them. I do agree that the DJ as a Shaman has validity. But, what kind of spirit quest involves dishonoring the music and its potential. It's like the shaman is using the cow shit instead of the mushrooms that grow out of it. Please check out my new mix on sound cloud. It is totally spontaneous, raw. and no headphones. Just this idea of a true shaman saving Psytrance by mixing it back to life. . It is raw and i had an unintentional metal-on-metal peck . I think that is permissible with a freestyle no-headphone mix. Of course I would polish it up if it were going to be commercialized. Again, that is not the point. The point is that a shaman can't traverse spiritual realms with headphones, the EM pulse would destroy them.

 

 

 

I really don't get what are you trying to say. That the whole Hinduism trend in Goa is something that killed the scene or something?

 

No, The whole Hinduism trend in Goa was a huge mockery of the followers of the faith. The idea of recreating the Goa experience is not a bad one. The problem is that you really can't. The idea of decorating a party with fluorescent tapestries of Hindu symbols and a black light. Then burning incense. And wearing some trinket or clothing that has more Hindu symbols. This is blasphemous. This is atrocious. "Sticking feathers up your ass does not make you a chicken." Tyler Durden. Trying to pay tribute to what occurred on the beaches of Goa, as if it was some miracle of human spiritual enlightenment. The likes of which can't be experienced. This is complete nonsense. And, I can use my own experience to explain it. Most of you have had the same experience.

 

I took 3.5grams of lab grown shrooms in my dorm room in college. I walked, somehow, downstairs toward the parking lot. I stopped, looked down at the paved walkway, looked up and saw a full moon, Then a bolt of lightning exploded from the moon and went straight through the top of my head to the pavement and it grounded me. That was awesome. I can't describe it.

 

But, I don't go to parties and put up moon tapestries and have paved walkways everywhere and a dormitory in the background. I don't have stun guns for everyone. And, I certainly don't have lab grown shrooms. Wait there was no music. You get my point. Everyone experiences spiritual awakenings differently. And the uncalled for and presumption of using those novelties is even more insulting to the audience. I dream of being able to share my experiences with others as I did. But, we don't have the technology and using stage props is insulting.

 

 

My idea for a party is to match the vibe with the vision. This music is highly advanced. So, I would naturally want the most advanced technology to create the visual aesthetic. And I would want the best sound system possible, The best DJ possible if you are serious about the music. And, the people would not be elitist, rude, snobs that do not represent an advanced society. Oh, one more thing. If you want to do drugs, they also must be the best, pure un-cut only. And, you can openly do them. If you want beer, well you have to drink quality, that means no coors light or other shit. I personally wouldn't mess with beer or alcohol until the after party. That calls for bloody Mary's and benzos. And, sure you can get a coffee. But, I would like something a little stronger. How about some fat rails of uncut escobar? Or whatever. If you don't want drugs, you are not pressured. And, massage tables. You can use them with your girlfriend or boyfriend or you can get a professional one. Whatever style you want. Happy endings are required. NO Violence, hostility, resentment, jealousy, insulting or harming others because an advanced society uses relevant emotions and love of life and our home(earth) makes this easy. So, that is what I believe this music deserves. IMO. Thanks for reading and sorry in advance if I have offended anyone.

[djmaxfactor1995]

Ok so that's your opinion - a very cynical, glass-half-empty-so-I'm-gonna-throw-the-rest-away opinion. I'm sorry you never got out of the music and the scene what there was to get when it was being given in the original spirit of the now-cliché PLUR. But that doesn't mean it was never there for others. The 'stigma' is purely in your own head, and if you can see that then you'll be able to let go of whatever it is inside you that makes you angry when you see other people discussing things like this. But in the meantime, and as I've said before, please carry on mistaking your opinions for irrefutable facts if that pleases you.

 

And no, we never had a Krishna of any kind on our first album artwork; we've never had any religious imagery at all where we've had a choice. The original art for aLIVE was designed by someone else, and we never had a choice or any input. (It's a cabbaged Shiva Nataraj, anyway, not a Krishna).

 

So, this is totally legitimate:

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=evFnW7isihs

[djmaxfactor1995]

So why did you jump into the conclusion that I agree with the current views on substances , or that I think we are really free? I pretty much agree with what you say ,and I have had enough experience with substances myself (mostly psychedelics).Why this rant ? You even imply I am not flexible or free thinking ... ?

 

Sorry Time Trap --is it okay if I call you that. I really like your alias. Very Yin/Yang. Anyway, I am sorry. I did not mean to snap at you. That was my Danish side? (Lars von Trier) I apologize, psyncerely. I made that up. Sorry, I am an ass, sometimes. I still think that it is important to be straightforward and honest. I see a word of people that lie all the time. The corporate and government scumbags will always deny. But, the denial that I am concerned with is the other 99% that have no clue, don't want to know, or actively deny the complete absence of humanity. There is an ideal that most believe because if one person can accomplish it, then it makes everything okay. For example, the whole American Dream thing. This does not and has never existed. Yet the idea is that if you are in America, you have the same opportunity to become wealthy as everyone and it is up to you. Then, this idea is made real by exploiting some poor inner city kid that becomes a pro sports star. That is the American dream come true. Wrong. That is an anomily and no matter how hard someone works to become successful. It is rarely because of honest determination based on merit. Look at the richest people in the World. Do they come from the ghetto? No, they are from wealthy families and they usually lied, cheated, and unethically manipulated their wealth.

Sorry again, check this out. Tell me what you think of Goa Gil after this. Remember, he can't DJ.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=evFnW7isihs

 

sorry about my reply, again. I really look forward to chatting with you. Especially, since we have much in common (psychedelics, music, humans), And I would like your input on my theory that the DJ is responsible for the music that is produced. So I spontaneously attempted to save the music by mixing the dj back. It is raw and no headphones. one tiny unintentional whoops. But , I am sure it bothers me more than anyone else. But, I would be as guilty as Gil if I didn't admit it. and at least I corrected it...uncommon shaman

[Jason Pandanandi]

Goa Gil, despite being a less-than-stellar DJ, has a legitimate Hindu Tantric initiation (real Tantra, not neo-Tantra aka "Sex Tantra") and guru lineage (I can't remember if it's a Shaiva or Shakta lineage, but it's one of the two.) Tantrics use the world as a means to spiritual realization rather than seeking to ignore the world on the path to realization... so.. I forgive him for using Hindu symbols because he, out of anyone, has the right to. This is assuming his initiation and spiritual endeavors are for real, and I highly suspect that they are.

 

His ability to DJ is another story altogether.

[djmaxfactor1995]

Goa Gil, despite being a less-than-stellar DJ, has a legitimate Hindu Tantric initiation (real Tantra, not neo-Tantra aka "Sex Tantra") and guru lineage (I can't remember if it's a Shaiva or Shakta lineage, but it's one of the two.) Tantrics use the world as a means to spiritual realization rather than seeking to ignore the world on the path to realization... so.. I forgive him for using Hindu symbols because he, out of anyone, has the right to. This is assuming his initiation and spiritual endeavors are for real, and I highly suspect that they are.

 

His ability to DJ is another story altogether.

 

I agree. But, isn't he blaspheming by using a beautiful and sacred ability and tradition by contradicting its nature and purpose at the same time? First. He states that he is using psytrance and traditional rituals to bring spiritual awakenings and help society as Terence Mckenna said. BTW, isn't a sadhu supposed to get a different name. How is he still using Gil? Anyway, Terence Mckenna was an advocate of using psychoactives in nature that shamans have been using for thousands of years, so we don't need to study their dangers. We know they are safe. He would use psilocybin Mushrooms and the Shamans of Mazatec Indians as an example. Goa Gil uses LSD. LSD has not been used by shamans for thousands of years. And, in my opinion, is a very bad ethneogen. LSD rarely creates loss of Ego and it's more of a bad amphetamine. Have you ever thought were indestructible on LSD? Have you ever had insecure and negative thoughts about yourself? Have you ever had a spiritual awakening like mushrooms? All LSD is good for is having energy to keep up with the full on relentless trance music. Goa Gil's choice of LSD as a catalyst should tell you his intentions. It is not natural for humans to dance for seven days in a row, also it is not natural for a DJ to be able to mix for that long or have enough good music. This overextended ability to dance coupled with his nonstop music playing should tell you he is not interested in healing you...he is just the King of the Hippies with an Ego as big as his scheme. He is a Sham, a shame, but not a shaman. He is a con artist not a musical artist. Someone show me proof that Gil is a real Shaman. Did you know there are 4-5 million shamans in India? So how hard could it be to become one? And, if DMT can produce a deeper and stronger spiritual experience in 15 minutes, Why LSD? and Where is this LSD coming from. It doesn't grow out of cow shit. Mushrooms would be much more believable in a country where the cow is sacred and it shit must be sacred. And mushrooms growing out of cow shit must also be sacred. And that is where the phrase "Holy Shit" comes from. And please don't mistake my rambling as all statements. Many are actually questions. So, please correct me when I am wrong. IDK, I am tired. Help me out with your knowledge of the Sadhu.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZM2u6LaobA

[Jason Pandanandi]

I agree. But, isn't he blaspheming by using a beautiful and sacred ability and tradition by contradicting its nature and purpose at the same time? First. He states that he is using psytrance and traditional rituals to bring spiritual awakenings and help society as Terence Mckenna said. BTW, isn't a sadhu supposed to get a different name. How is he still using Gil? Anyway, Terence Mckenna was an advocate of using psychoactives in nature that shamans have been using for thousands of years, so we don't need to study their dangers. We know they are safe. He would use psilocybin Mushrooms and the Shamans of Mazatec Indians as an example. Goa Gil uses LSD. LSD has not been used by shamans for thousands of years. And, in my opinion, is a very bad ethneogen. LSD rarely creates loss of Ego and it's more of a bad amphetamine. Have you ever thought were indestructible on LSD? Have you ever had insecure and negative thoughts about yourself? Have you ever had a spiritual awakening like mushrooms? All LSD is good for is having energy to keep up with the full on relentless trance music. Goa Gil's choice of LSD as a catalyst should tell you his intentions. It is not natural for humans to dance for seven days in a row, also it is not natural for a DJ to be able to mix for that long or have enough good music. This overextended ability to dance coupled with his nonstop music playing should tell you he is not interested in healing you...he is just the King of the Hippies with an Ego as big as his scheme. He is a Sham, a shame, but not a shaman. He is a con artist not a musical artist. Someone show me proof that Gil is a real Shaman. Did you know there are 4-5 million shamans in India? So how hard could it be to become one? And, if DMT can produce a deeper and stronger spiritual experience in 15 minutes, Why LSD? and Where is this LSD coming from. It doesn't grow out of cow shit. Mushrooms would be much more believable in a country where the cow is sacred and it shit must be sacred. And mushrooms growing out of cow shit must also be sacred. And that is where the phrase "Holy Shit" comes from. And please don't mistake my rambling as all statements. Many are actually questions. So, please correct me when I am wrong. IDK, I am tired. Help me out with your knowledge of the Sadhu.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZM2u6LaobA

 

The only substances historically used by Tantrics in India are alcohol and datura, so I don't know where Gil gets the LSD use from - it's certainly not his religion. Cannabis is used as well by many a sadhu, but it's not a part of ritual. Anyway, it's not my place to pass judgement on Gil... the whole "ancient ritual for modern times" things seems phony to me, though, because the ancient rituals are still alive and don't need updating. However, since I've never met the guy, I try not to pass much judgement on him.

 

As for the Shaman thing... I don't know where you get your statistics for India, but Shamanism as a phenomenon really applies to south American, Native American, and Mongolian religion - India's religious figures aren't shamans, and although some Tantric paths bear a resemblance to it, they're a different beast altogether.

 

And as for taking a new name when becoming a Sadhu, one does do that, but in my experience, those born outside of India frequently have a hard time getting their western friends to call them by their new name. Without getting into specifics, I will say that I know a few people who were born in america and "went through the rigors" of being a Sadhu (or an Aghori, as the case may be) and still go by their birth name when interacting with most other Americans. I won't judge Gil for that, personally. (Hell, I got a name when I took my initiation as a spiritual aspirant, but I can't get people to use it, whether I like it or not.)

[TranceVisuals]

I've had comparable experiences between various forms of fungi, lsd and dmt.

LSD traditionally is seen more as a tool, maybe because of its manufactured/discovered

nature, maybe it is cultural imprinting.

DMT didn't produce longer stronger experiences in my experience, you can dose up on mushrooms

(and to a lesser extent LSD) in a way you can't with DMT due to its brevity. Rather it is like

the whole 12-14+ mushroom trip in an 30min-1hr. All in my experience of course, and yours may

be totally different.

 

Question, do you know Goa Gil personally?

 

BTW Magic mushrooms don't grow out of cow shit were I come from.

 

The only substances historically used by Tantrics in India are alcohol and datura, so I don't know where Gil gets the LSD use from - it's certainly not his religion......

 

There is a hell of a lot of bind-weed in India which can be a soure of lysergic amines.

[Jason Pandanandi]

There is a hell of a lot of bind-weed in India which can be a soure of lysergic amines.

 

 

I said in ritual. No tantrik ritual calls for anything other than alcohol, as far as I know, and even then it's a small percentage of tantriks that perform that ritual literally. A few rituals in honor of Shani (saturn) use Datura, if I remember correctly, although that may have just been a part of tantrik Buddhism in Tibet.

 

I'm not trying to be condescending or anything, but the idea that psychoactive substances are commonly used in Indian native religions is (mostly) fiction.

I'm sure that lysergic derived substances are freely available there, both natural and synthesized, but the question was whether it has to do with his actual religion... and the answer is "no, not really."

[TranceVisuals]

Never said they were commonly used in Indian/Oriential traditions, which is like you said, a common fallacy. I was mere pointing out that there were natural plant-spirits of that order commonly available in the locale (India in this case) for the "initiated".

 

Thank the universe for the Occidental tradition, and my native heritage of getting high on anything and everything available as both a cultural and spiritual pursuit.

[djmaxfactor1995]

I've had comparable experiences between various forms of fungi, lsd and dmt.

LSD traditionally is seen more as a tool, maybe because of its manufactured/discovered

nature, maybe it is cultural imprinting.

DMT didn't produce longer stronger experiences in my experience, you can dose up on mushrooms

(and to a lesser extent LSD) in a way you can't with DMT due to its brevity. Rather it is like

the whole 12-14+ mushroom trip in an 30min-1hr. All in my experience of course, and yours may

be totally different.

 

Question, do you know Goa Gil personally?

 

BTW Magic mushrooms don't grow out of cow shit were I come from.

 

There are many psilocybin fungi. One grows out of cow shit. Fungus is attracted to warm, dark, dank environments and cow shit happens to provide that. But there are many mushrooms. The one from super mario bros is fly agarcic? that has a different psychoactive chemical. But this is the one you probably recognize:

 

You are absolutely correct. The human brain is the most power and most unknown forces in the universe.

 

Give this a listen, I would really appreciate any feedback. No feedback doesn't help. Negative feedback is better than none. Thanks again for putting up with me. And I do apologize, again for my recent behavior. Enjoy:

 

[TranceVisuals]

....

Give this a listen, I would really appreciate any feedback. No feedback doesn't help. Negative feedback is better than none. Thanks again for putting up with me. And I do apologize, again for my recent behavior. Enjoy: Uncommon Shaman

 

2 pages, and its just another promotional thread....

[Tatsu]

I can't talk about international parties but here you can't find a set that is not beatmixed properly. Sure, there is Goa Gill but that is one single DJ and as far as I know he never could beatmix. So you know what you get when you book him or go to a party where he is DJing... But being able to beatmix does of course not say anything about the quality of the tracks, that's another story and depends on your personal taste.

 

But the result that I see the trend of psytrance sound. makes sense that the dj just plays records. The repetitive, formulaic, predictable flood of psytrance, I believe results from the DJ playing a set that is repetive, formulaic, and predictable. Makes Sense. To me the DJ is not only the one that links the music to the audience, the dj was the mad scientist, mixing different potions of sound together to create a different sound and we experimented...the audiences feedback told us what mixing worked and what didn't. The super hippie that didn't stop dancing for 12 hours was dominating the psytrance audience and, again, repetitive, monotonous, and predictable and tempos got faster.

I wonder how you define a person that qualifies as hippie? The drugged up freaks that dance for 12 hours straight fall most of the times in the category "tweaker" and not hippie. At least in my area. That would explain the fast and monotonous music, too. Which is, again in my area, not that much of an item. Or maybe I should say it is but if you check the flyers and online forum about the parties you want to visit, you can guess what kind of music is played and refuse to attend parties that don't fit your taste.

 

I know I always sound like I want to defend the scene. Which is not my goal, I don't like every single thing in the scene either. I just see so much more going on than the stuff described in a lot of threads here. So many musical styles, so many different people, also different drugs, different parties (from the size, location and what not)... I wonder more and more if this is only the case in cozy little Switzerland or what?

 

About your drug experiences and stuff: it's interesting to hear what you did back in the days, also how you perceived parties and what not. I just wonder what the connection of those drugs intakes and the rest of your text are. Maybe you care to explain how those are linked?