There is no psytrance "scene"...

[TranceVisuals]

To misquote Mr T. Mckenna....

 

 

"There is no psytrance scene. There are only people who know this and people who don't know this and are

therefore being manipulated by the people who do know it."

 

And to quote Mr T. Leary,

 

"Think for yourself,

Question Authority."

[Astrognomix]

There are only people who know this and people who don't know this and are

therefore being manipulated by the people who do know it."

 

And to quote Mr T. Leary,

 

"Think for yourself,

Question Authority."

 

I never thought of the psy crowd as the manipulators. I figure that at least we know we are being manipulated, and as Mr. Leary suggests, choose to question authority. Unfortunately, money talks, and psytrance walks (or dances in a hedonistic fashion ignoring the powers-that-be whose grasp grows ever tighter).

[TranceVisuals]

Unfortunately, money talks...

 

Unfortunately.

 

 

But remember,

"Psytrance isn't just a style of music.

It is a state of mind." (or rather an experience you have).

[Guest nectarios]

So there are the producers, from which the music comes from, the promoters that put on parties, the DJs that play the music and the people that dance to the music at parties and listen to the music at home. It is also possbile for one person to be (or have been) all of the things I mentioned above.

Them people tend to hang out together, talk about the music, the artists, the parties, when socialising at parties, or at home away from parties, coffee shops...etc. So, for the sake of argument, what constitues a "scene".

And in either case, does it make a difference to people if there truly is a scene, or not?

 

Peace out.

[TranceVisuals]

And in either case, does it make a difference to people if there truly is a scene, or not?

 

Probably none. It would be nice if there were one I reckon, though I guess it is that longing/desire that

makes one open to be "manipulated", so to speak.

But in all practically it probably doesn't make any difference.

[djmaxfactor1995]

To misquote Mr T. Mckenna....

 

 

"There is no psytrance scene. There are only people who know this and people who don't know this and are

therefore being manipulated by the people who do know it."

 

And to quote Mr T. Leary,

 

"Think for yourself,

Question Authority."

 

I don't get a good vibe from Timothy Leary. He seems like he needs 3 rohypnol, skunk bud, taco bell and 28 hours of sleep. McKenna, on the other hand, I find much more intelligent and realistic.

 

So there are the producers, from which the music comes from, the promoters that put on parties, the DJs that play the music and the people that dance to the music at parties and listen to the music at home. It is also possbile for one person to be (or have been) all of the things I mentioned above.

Them people tend to hang out together, talk about the music, the artists, the parties, when socialising at parties, or at home away from parties, coffee shops...etc. So, for the sake of argument, what constitues a "scene".

And in either case, does it make a difference to people if there truly is a scene, or not?

Peace out.

 

I don't have any idea of a psytrance scene because the last I saw was over a decade ago. But it was not an illusion. There were distinct paths that would take you to different scenes. I actually found the psytrance scene the most real and least manipulated, except for the one "Goa Twilight Group." The music was so dramatically different, yet fit right next to where you have been going. The difference that I was so hyped about was the possibility of shaping the scene, the way that was most natural. That meant cutting edge technology, separate but equal main room. No disambiguation of access. No special clothes or style, just honor the music and enjoy. The Deejay would have a challenging role...no more slow, minimal house or fast minimal trance, techno...this was faster orchestrated dance music. Each track a composition, but meant very little alone. So, the Deejay would have to carefully mix and the audience would have to be in the groove and the Deejay, audience, promoter, and producer would be in harmony. Time stands still and the energy and motion transcend space and time and we become psychonauts. This is my scene and it did not manifest. Either the producer was not represented, the promoter was too scared to have a psytrance rave...so another room was added. Main(House/Breaks/Progressive Trance), Down-tempo, DnB/Jungle, Psytrance/Techno.

 

 

 

Probably none. It would be nice if there were one I reckon, though I guess it is that longing/desire that

makes one open to be "manipulated", so to speak.

But in all practically it probably doesn't make any difference.

 

Yes, I miss the naivety that I had when I was 18 and had no idea of different scences. It was just House, Techno, and Progressive Trance. Mixed with Funky, Tribal, Breakbeats. That was all the electronic choice we had. It was just great to get away from the fucking guitar, drums, long hair, no style, excessive alcohol. This was like Goa--No Rules. But, the music progressed quickly. The problem is the sometimes the music fell into the wrong hands, or the promoter glorified the wrong deejays.

If I were open to manipulation and I was listening to a Tiesto set right now, I would probably not be writing this or about to be involved with assisted suicide. I swear if Satan's Cock were money, Tiesto would have wads of Satan in his mouth, and he would trying to take the devil's soul.

No Scene vs. Tiesto Scene= No Scene for me.

[Jason Pandanandi]

There's a group of people who listen to psytrance, and insofar as you listen to psytrance and go to psy shows, you're part of a given subculture. It's the nature of modern subcultures that they all tend to overlap and that no-one belongs to one subculture exclusively, but they're all still there. Psytrance culture has a thoughtform of its own, so to speak, at this point, and exists fairly independently of whatever you have to say about it. You can deny there's a psy scene, but Ozora's still going to happen, if you catch my drift... it's unrealistic or solipsistic to flat out deny that something exists when that very something has tangible effects in the world.

 

(for the record, I don't get a good feeling from Leary OR from McKenna, but that's a different story.)

[ollylovesgoa]

There's a group of people who listen to psytrance, and insofar as you listen to psytrance and go to psy shows, you're part of a given subculture. It's the nature of modern subcultures that they all tend to overlap and that no-one belongs to one subculture exclusively, but they're all still there. Psytrance culture has a thoughtform of its own, so to speak, at this point, and exists fairly independently of whatever you have to say about it. You can deny there's a psy scene, but Ozora's still going to happen, if you catch my drift... it's unrealistic or solipsistic to flat out deny that something exists when that very something has tangible effects in the world.

 

(for the record, I don't get a good feeling from Leary OR from McKenna, but that's a different story.)

 

I agree with your description of the scene, but really agree with you about Leary and Mckenna, I can't stand they're delluded forced attitude to drugs and egotistical ideas about enlightenment. Mckenna was just insane, and personally I think he missed the whole point of psychedelics as I see them (IMO of course). Sorry for being off-topic.

[TranceVisuals]

...but really agree with you about Leary and Mckenna, I can't stand they're delluded forced attitude to drugs and egotistical ideas about enlightenment. Mckenna was just insane...

 

Care to substantiate your claims/opinions?

[ollylovesgoa]

Leary very famously said, "you must turn on, tune in, drop out," and by this he meant that all people should take psychedelics. This is an ignorant and dangerous as well as damaging view, I hate it when people believe that psychedelics are the answer to all faults with society etc, its just idiocy. I know so many damaged people that became that way from taking acid believeing it was some sort of key that they could never get to the end of. Few things Mckenna said were quite agreeable but he also spent a lot of his time deciding when the world is going to end, thinking about the fact that mushrooms are alien lifeforms sent from space purely because they can exist in a vacuum, despite evidence towards evolution, but overall they were authority figures themselves, and it's just so ironic that they're going on about the right way to live and denouncing all others while preaching open-mindedness. Mckenna said it was our job to take philosophical concepts from psychedelic experiences so that we can advance, for me this dehumanises the experience, it makes people think that all acid is is a key to the algorithms of space and time etc, when really it's an emotional, personal experience, there is no obligation to trip in a certain way, because that's impossible. Overall I dislike they're obvious love of being adored, their egotism. I find it ironic that they (much more with Mckenna) use the destruction of ego in certain experiences to compound their pride and egotism when not high. There are far more profound people out there, Neem Karori Baba, Alan Watts, Krishnamurti. This is all my opinion though, and that's all it is.

[TranceVisuals]

First off, I wanted to thankyou for taking the time to reply, so few seem too these days,

as well as providing some suggestions of your own.

 

However Olly, you seem to confuse a lot of issues, and ideas both Leary and McKenna had, and "promoted".

 

Leary's quote never meant that all people should take psychedelics, I don't know where you got that

idea. Sure after Millbrook and his harrasment by law officials, and the outlawing of LSD and other

psychedelics he became more "confrontational", but you seem to be confusing Leary with Kesey tbh.

 

The mushrooms from outerspace is another misquote of yours, that actually came from Dennis Mckenna's

notions about the evolution of the indole molecule and particularly the leap from the 4-idole to 6-idole,

which he later proved to his own satisfaction was wrong. Infact Terence made a lot more issue of us

taking mushrooms into outerspace and with us, whether intentionally or not.

 

Infact all the points you make seem to be slight "twists" on actually what they said, taken out of context, which

like most things could "prove whatever your prover wants to prove" (see J. Lilly. ) It also makes me

think you haven't done enough research tbh, otherwise you wouldn't be making such "elementary" errors.

 

But I am NOT defending each of these persons, Leary especially had a strong self-publicising streak, and

character-flaws a mile wide. Mckenna too has/had his skeletons, but there were reasons why he did not

speak in larger groups than a few dozen, for often he was wary of people taking what he said as "fact".

Infact he stated several times that he deliberately spoke to small groups as he didn't believe in the need

for a wider more popular psychedelic movement, but a deeper more integral one.

 

The fact you also so readily confused LSD and mushrooms, which Mckenna and others such as Metzner went to great

lengths to differeniate between the two, and mostly reject LSD as a tool partly due to problems of supply and purity.

 

But I also believe that it should be possible to seperate the person, from their ideas, philosophy, to some

degree (but not forgotten). Indeed I know both Alan Watts and Krishnamurti (infact all three if you include

Neem "abandoning" his family to a degree) have their own "egotistical moments/actions".

But of course some might say that the ego does not exist but is the invention of Freud, who not only falsified

his data, and successes, but also spent quite a few years as a coke-head. So before you start bandy-ing around

words like "ego" I suggest you dig a little deeper, indeed Mr Watts would point out that buddhists don't actually

"believe" in the ego, and think it is an illusion brought on by the chattering monkey-mind.

[needle ninja]

There is a 'cyberscene' that psytrance followers gather around here on the internet.

I like that word, 'cyberscene' did I just make it up?

[Jason Pandanandi]

Eh, well i don't like Watts or Krishnamurti either -

When I'm going for 'enlightenment' I go straight to the Upanishads, Shankara, Shams Tabrizi, Meister Eckhart, or St. John of the Cross... Rene Guenon for someone more recent than that. I'm quite 'traditional' when it comes to definitions of enlightenment... I don't think Krishnamurti had much to say.

 

Oh well. Topic derailed :\