pixiejanet Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 For the sake of a good interesting debate (and one where people actually can learn something) why do you not hear what I hear? I really lack better explanations from those of you who disagree with me. All you write is "I do not agree", "it's not valid". or "+1". To me that is not a debate going anywhere. I really like to understand why people can have so different opinions and what they base those opinion on we probably hear everything different...I listen to the whole rather than break it down into bite size chunks.... to do that you would hear elements of everything in every genre.....wizack put out a track where he wanted people to do their own thing with it, my b/f who is a music producer asked and was sent the piece of music...all broken down into pieces in no particular order, everything was there, but it wasnt a tune.....and his challenge is to make it into one..... this can be done with everything... I love MFG and Astral and know their music well....In 2000 i was introduced to the music of IM(classical mushroom and the gathering) I really did not know what to think of it....It was totally different ...it took me a while and many plays for me to get used to the style....i never once thought to myself*O this sounds like*.... because it didnt.... I can listen to new djs/producers now and can hear where their influences came from...and many do copy IM. but not AP or MFG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 we probably hear everything different...I listen to the whole rather than break it down into bite size chunks.... to do that you would hear elements of everything in every genre.....wizack put out a track where he wanted people to do their own thing with it, my b/f who is a music producer asked and was sent the piece of music...all broken down into pieces in no particular order, everything was there, but it wasnt a tune.....and his challenge is to make it into one..... this can be done with everything... I love MFG and Astral and know their music well....In 2000 i was introduced to the music of IM(classical mushroom and the gathering) I really did not know what to think of it....It was totally different ...it took me a while and many plays for me to get used to the style....i never once thought to myself*O this sounds like*.... because it didnt.... I can listen to new djs/producers now and can hear where their influences came from...and many do copy IM. but not AP or MFG. I guess we really hear things very different. I do not say you but I have noticed when some IM fans object to my opinion they seem to base it on their taste and not on rational analyzing of sounds and melody structure. When I first time heard IM's so-called groundbreaking album I instantly thought about those artists I mentioned. I even talked to some danish artist friends about it ( I wont mention their names as they are not here to debate it) and they agreed with me. I agree that many artists copied IM but I do not agree that IM did not copy artists or got inspired by those artists i mentioned (in reference to sound design and some melodies) . I also know for a fact (I've been to Israel many times and also met IM at a few parties before they got famous. I also shared label with them in Israel BNE/YoYo) that they were indeed influenced from the at that time Big names in the Israeli scene (and also from artists in the UK scene). And that shines though in their music just as much as those artists I was influenced by shines through in my music. I too got fans who think my music is the best in the world and totally unique. While I appreciate their support and the fact they love my music I do not agree as I know every single artist incl. myself are inspired by other music and always to some extend copy from other artists (conscious or subconscious). I am pretty sure IM agree with me To deny that IM was influenced and inspired by those who came before them is a bit weird to me but I accept your opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 To deny that IM was influenced and inspired by those who came before them is something that nobody actually did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 something that nobody actually did. I think some do as there is a red line between being inspired and copy. If you are inspired by someones music you will also be bound to copy them. As I wrote intentionally or not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 The latest promo of Infected sound promising called 'In my mind', nice guitars, and baselines... The vocals are psy not MC, what is good! It is fullon but imo good fullon I hope this album will be released soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCrow Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I think some do as there is a red line between being inspired and copy. If you are inspired by someones music you will also be bound to copy them. As I wrote intentionally or not). You can't put a monopoly on the occurrence of inspiration like that. You will not be BOUND to copy them. If someone creates some music that inspires an intensity of feeling or brilliance in me, it might inspire me to create some form of artistic output or perform some action inspired by that intensity, but it will have nothing to do with copying. If you use a candle to light another candle will the flame have been copied? Now if I tried to copy that person's STYLE through reverse engineering and tried to move that way from the outside to the inside to create then you'd probably get a fairly useless piece of shit. But if I choose to use the intensity or brilliance that it inspired inside of me and use that to create from the inside to the outside then there is much less of a chance that I'm going to be copying. I might even get inspired by the poorness of some person's music and choose to create on that basis, would I have copied? Sorry if my reply is out of context with the general flow of the conversation, I just chose to take your post as a standalone entity and reply on that basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I think some do as there is a red line between being inspired and copy. If you are inspired by someones music you will also be bound to copy them. As I wrote intentionally or not). No, nobody denied that IM was influenced and inspired by those who came before them. They just said they thought that IM were groundbreaking and unique. Being groundbreaking and unique does not mean drawing no influences or inspiration from artists that came before - if it did then I don't believe a single artist from recorded history could be called groundbreaking and unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 No, nobody denied that IM was influenced and inspired by those who came before them. They just said they thought that IM were groundbreaking and unique. Being groundbreaking and unique does not mean drawing no influences or inspiration from artists that came before - if it did then I don't believe a single artist from recorded history could be called groundbreaking and unique. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 It's not so much that they copied a song. That's not the point. My point is that when I listen to IM's so-called masterpieces I hear a lot of references in their choice of sounds and the way they build their riff's (melodies) to the artists I mentioned. I am fine with the fact you people disagree and do not hear what I hear. But at the end of the day that is my opinion like it or not. My excuse is that I base it on years of music education and training and a continuous musical life as an artist. I doubt anyone can brush off my opinion as not being valid or not correct. I do have some knowledge and experience in analyzing the way melodies are build and the techniques behind music (I teach music too) and not to forget 25+ years in creating sounds on real synthesizers and I am sure if some of you who so passionate refuse to acknowledged my points had the same experience in analyzing music (incl. theoretically) then maybe you would agree a bit more I do not doubt any of your knowledge nor do I say your opinion is wrong. I am just dieing to hear the songs that sound similar to the Classical Mushroom songs, so I can run out and buy them. The artists you mentioned so far are for me not coming close to the Classical Mushroom sound. Mainly because the CM album sounds way different than the works of Indoor or AP. Sure there are some similarities as you always have them when you compare albums or artists from the same genre but the connection is (for me) not as close as mentioned. So you would really do me a favour if you can give me some specific track names that you see as predecessors for the CM album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 For the sake of a good interesting debate (and one where people actually can learn something) why do you not hear what I hear? I really lack better explanations from those of you who disagree with me. All you write is "I do not agree", "it's not valid". or "+1". To me that is not a debate going anywhere. I really like to understand why people can have so different opinions and what they base their opinions on To hear what you hear it would be a big help if you make more specific references. Obviously people perceive music differently so imho there is no real right or wrong from my point of view. But for a real debate I personaly do need specific examples, otherwise I won't not even be able to give it a try to hear what you hear. I mean especially AP has lots of releases out, which songs are for you the ones that inspired IM for their Classical Mushroom album? I said it before, I'm looking for stuff like CM for years now and I found some IM inspired stuff. But not stuff that was done before Classical Mushroom and sounded (to me I mean) like it inspired IM. Especially the use of real instruments (or synths sounding like that, whatever) and the electronical parts of the songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 what is all of this mad blasphemy?? i have heard all of these albums and none sound like IM's albums. There is simply no album or track out there that matches the depth of musicality, the perfect match of atmosphere, samples and leads and attention to detail. Not to mention their band name... there seems to be and undeniable link in between the effects of this thing and the textures and sounds in their songs, off course many psychedelic music has this... but in their case its somehow just a bit more "trippy" as you could say. Many artists try to simulate as if you were tripping, but in IM's case, the music IS really tripping. It's that sort of lingering malaise, uneasy feel which is so well worked out throughout their first 3 albums that makes it so damn disturbingly eerie and enchanting. And no more than they were influenced by other psy artists they were influenced by 80's music like Depeche Mode etc and have created something truly unique from their starting period up to 2003, ever since IM the supervisor it was becoming quite apparant they wanted to push their commercial succes to the absolute limit and i don't blame them for as far as they still get a kick out of it. After making their first three GENIUS albums for all i care they can fart in a bottle and put that on a cd for heck's sake. Roll us a giant anyone? ok fine, then. something i would relate to infected trippiness would be this (near the last minute): imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 in fact, i could say this alot more easier if you've got two ears on your head and have heard a track like let's say Spaniard or just about any other track they made before 2002, and then calling them rippers is just a fucking joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veracohr Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Folks, this is a friendly reminder to keep the discussion on-topic, about the music, NOT about each other. Difference of opinion is good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psymetal&bass Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Electronic music has always been about copying eachother's sounds, melodies and samples. You can come up with the most original and unique melody and you'll still be ripping off some tracks that were made before without having a slight clue of it. There are so many tracks around and every corner of uniqueness and originality has already been explored to hell years before by other producers who have probably ripped off someone else too at that time without knowing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Electronic music has always been about copying eachother's sounds, melodies and samples. You can come up with the most original and unique melody and you'll still be ripping off some tracks that were made before without having a slight clue of it. There are so many tracks around and every corner of uniqueness and originality has already been explored to hell years before by other producers who have probably ripped off someone else too at that time without knowing it. Exactly what I have been saying all along. Nice to see a voice of reasoning. I never claimed it was wrong of IM to be inspired of copy other artists (intentionally or not). But to not wanting to acknowledge the fact that they too got inspired and copied sounds and riffs is IMO to close the eyes a bit As I wrote earlier before being censured. I'll come with examples later on when being in the mood to dig up some examples. Right now I am too concerned about good friends in Norway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 From what I can tell, most people here agree with you about it no being possible to not be inspired by other artists. At least I do. It's still not the same as copying to me. And I never the less still think that especially the Classical Mushroom stands out as being unique. Same as their overall sound has a uniqueness to me. Thanks for taking the time to look for examples. But don't hurry... I hope nobody you know got hurt or killed in Norway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benf52 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Its nice to see that IM shares studio info and show people how they make their music. Everytime i see Duvdev speak though, i get this uncomfortable feeling. He seems so unnatural and so full of himself, and i think their latest albums reflect that. I don't think He and Erez are really interested in making good innovative music anymore. They are after fame and money now, and have been for a while now. Their latest real work (imo) was BP Empire and even that wasn't all that. As for the debate about their early music, one cannot deny that it was original. They had this ability to make the most amazing meoldies, way better imo than on any of the artists they "ripped off" to quote Elysium. They also were among the most talented at creating the parts of the tracks where things explode and take off. They also made a lot of sounds that i haven't heard anywhere else, so obviously they were creative, as all people who make music know that making true original and good sounds is not an easy thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Hopefully new album will feature few tracks like Franks and Project 100, thoose two I realy liked Edit 1: new music video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmP9lCtGXA8 Edit 2: last night they did live show here in Croatia at so-called croatian Ibiza: Zrće Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 wow that's a funky tune! i wish their output wasn't so random these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJoker Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hopefully new album will feature few tracks like Franks and Project 100, thoose two I realy liked Edit 1: new music video http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmP9lCtGXA8 Edit 2: last night they did live show here in Croatia at so-called croatian Ibiza: Zrće Fantastic track and video! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Fantastic track and video! Horrible (IMO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Some of the music is very interesting, but the vocals kill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Some of the music is very interesting, but the vocals kill it. +1 It's obvious they still have the capacity to make great music, I just don't like their current direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richpa Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Nation of Wuses (Demo) @ 00:46 Clip for DJ Mag You Are So Fucked (Demo) - Dubstep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insejn Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Nation of Wuses (Demo) @ 00:46 Clip for DJ Mag You Are So Fucked (Demo) - Dubstep Woha! No doubt they can make good tunes if only he could stfu and throw away all the annoying guitars and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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