US Debt

[Insejn]

http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/

 

Daaaym!

[Trance2MoveU]

Good God that is disgusting. Hatred for politicians...growing!

 

Mdk

[Insejn]

Yep! It's pretty nasty.

 

You should watch Inside Job. A good documentray about the economic crisis.

[CoLoUr DoTZ]

Na...... Pocket money.......!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now seriously.... we are not far from hitting the wall. I really hope society is at the level history is gonna

require us to be, in order to get the most of such a great opportunity for a real change.

[needle ninja]

The US government is beyond retarded. A lot of the people I know are just waiting for default and collapse.

Kids, this is what happens when your government gets out of control.

[Insejn]

The US government is beyond retarded. A lot of the people I know are just waiting for default and collapse.

Kids, this is what happens when your government gets out of control.

 

I'm not even sure it can be called a gouvernment. Seems to be run by a bunch of rich guys...

[needle ninja]

Helped be made richer by their 'role' in 'government'...

[Penzoline]

Haha those comparisons are ridiculous.

[RTP]

Nice find.

 

Yes, we are in deep shit. Europe is not better off. Just look at the 400+ billion Euro fund we are now creating to save Greece and other crisis countries.

 

But do we really save Greece? No we don't save Greece - the Greek won't see a cent of the money. We are saving the BANKS who bought the greek assets!

This is all a big SCAM on taxpayer money and at the cost of everyone of the working class - Greeks and other Europeans alike. All to just save the banks.

If we had a last bit of sanity we would send Greece bankrupt.

Why oh why nobody sees this?

 

The really shocking thing is that everybody counts on the crash meanwhile. I don't know anybody who tells me that it will continue like this. Everybody knows! So why not let it be and let the crash happen now instead of having an even bigger one some years from now?!

[abasio]

Japanese national debt :0

 

I obviously don't understand even the first thing about economics, who the hell would want to buy debt?

 

In my mind the idea of buying debt goes something like this: "Hi can I pay you money now so that I'll owe you money in the future?"

Obviously this is not what it is but economics is filled with these shitass terms that make no sense just so we'll all get confused and not realise that some people are getting damn rich at our expenses

[Veracohr]

Economics lost all rationality when people moved away from buying and selling just goods and services, and started buying and selling money.

[travbrad1001]

Economics lost all rationality when people moved away from buying and selling just goods and services, and started buying and selling money.

 

Yep. It really makes us lose focus on creating actual goods/services too. People always talk about DOW or NASDAQ as if that is the measurement of our economy. People living on the streets or losing their homes don't give a shit if DOW went up 2 points.

 

But do we really save Greece? No we don't save Greece - the Greek won't see a cent of the money. We are saving the BANKS who bought the greek assets!

This is all a big SCAM on taxpayer money and at the cost of everyone of the working class - Greeks and other Europeans alike. All to just save the banks.

If we had a last bit of sanity we would send Greece bankrupt.

Why oh why nobody sees this?

 

The really shocking thing is that everybody counts on the crash meanwhile. I don't know anybody who tells me that it will continue like this. Everybody knows! So why not let it be and let the crash happen now instead of having an even bigger one some years from now?!

 

Totally agree with your post. We are just making the problem worse and extending the global recession by paying off the banks. We bailed out the banks in the U.S. and look how that has worked out. They pocketed all the cash and everyone else continues to get screwed, so we are headed for an even worse recession most likely.

 

I can't see things changing without a major (almost revolutionary) revolt though. Wall Street is the biggest financier of almost all political campaigns, so don't expect the Republicans or Democrats to do anything more than make token gestures. The democrats are trying to co-opt the wall-street protests (to get votes in 2012), but Obama received more money from Wall Street than McCain. He does NOT have our interests in mind.

[Procyon]

I am pragmatic: US and Europe aren't doing well, but they're far from being hell as you guys are describing it.

If you think US are that bad, then move to crap countries like Mexico, Venezuela, Etiopia, Bangladesh, then you will learn you how good is the life in an organized, civilized country. The life you're living now.

You guys living in the North really don't know what political corruption, bribery, injustice really is.

What we see now is US moving her feet a little to make room for China and other countries, but America will not stumble.

[Veracohr]

^

The subject at hand is just debt. Nothing else. It's a staggering amount of money.

[RTP]

Veracohr is right, Procyon. Western or also Northern countries might be very developed and have a good quality of life. But this is about debts ... and those are sky high.

 

And if people realize that these debts can't get paid back and that they were scammed, we will probably have a big crash and a fundamental change in the money system that's probably going to render every value that was created under the old system (the one we have now) worthless or at least drastically reduced in value (stripped of all the interest money and all, leaving the real physical value that is far less than the monetary one ... this is true, some people who buy gold now already don't speculate on a higher value later, they speculate to at least have SOMETHING in their hands during or after the crisis that is worth more than the amount of money they paid for the gold before the crisis).

Simply said, lots of people are going to lose their money. And then it will be the point where the working classes go to the streets because they got no money and no perspective anymore and it will be somewhat like we saw in London a few months ago, only that it will be fucking everywhere, also in front of your door. And then it won't be far fetched that economy might come to a grinding halt, letting all the infrastructure of the society collapse along with it ... won't be long until policemen and firemen don't receive their salaries anymore (after all, what to buy with the salary anyway when it's worth nothing) and then there could be anarchy and as much as I enjoy a society of chaos in theory and imagination, it's probably going to be fucking hell.

 

The money in this system is stained, spoiled and in every dollar/euro there are meanwhile a lot of "dead" factors in it that are only holding the price/value inflated. This air needs to get out, but it needs to be done SLOWLY. Like a benzo addict with tolerance you can't quit cold turkey. But at the moment we don't quit, we cure withdrawal symptoms by taking more benzos ... and when we continue like this, it will be our road to doom. Prepare for above scenario.

[travbrad1001]

I am pragmatic: US and Europe aren't doing well, but they're far from being hell as you guys are describing it.

If you think US are that bad, then move to crap countries like Mexico, Venezuela, Etiopia, Bangladesh, then you will learn you how good is the life in an organized, civilized country.

 

 

Well I certainly don't think anyone believes it is that bad, but that doesn't mean it's GOOD either, or that we shouldn't try to change things. Maybe it's selfish, but my own nation's economy is a lot closer to my heart than Venezuela's too (not that I don't feel sympathy for people struggling everywhere).

 

"We're not in as bad shape as Ethiopia" isn't exactly a great accolade.

[RTP]

Just pray people won't realize how bad they are scammed. If they don't realize, it will be fine.

 

By the way, don't listen to "economy prophets" these days. Most of the people are traders and a trader either gives advice to buy things he already has stocked up on (to keep demand/price high) or they give advices because they directly sell it. Ever saw a gold merchant talk bad about gold?

[Veracohr]

On the subject of gold:

 

I don't get that either. People see gold as a standard hard currency, and here in the US there has long been criticism over the government's abandonment of the "gold standard" as the physical reality that dollars represent. But what good is gold? Historically it's been a currency because it's pretty and shiny and people like pretty shiny things. But I'd like to think society is evolving away from a concept of value that is based on "ooh pretty!", and toward a concept of practical value. Gold has little practical value. It's too rare and soft to be used in large quantities for most applications of metals. It's best practical value is as an electrical conductor, which is not as good as copper or silver but is less susceptible to oxidation. But there's nothing about gold that makes it inherently more valuable than any other resource we use. I'd say water has more inherent value.

[Procyon]

Yes, it's about debt. But talk to any American these days about economics and see if he/she won't mention the most feared word: "eviction". Just last week a Denver girl, friend of ours came to visit us, and when we asked how her parents were, she mentioned how their neighboors are really terrified of losing their house, their medical expenses are sky-rocketing, they don't travel or go to restaurants that often anymore. She blames the Afeghanistan and Iraq wars for that, the huge amount of billions of dollars spend on military instead of health, welfare and education. My train of thought is that US debt reached the ceiling due to the wars, which is affecting the sense of prosperity and safety that Americans are used to.

My last point is that even if US are not doing that good, it's still the best democracy in the world to live.

[Rotwang]

My last point is that even if US are not doing that good, it's still the best democracy in the world to live.

 

I agree that the US doesn't have it that bad compared to most of the world but I don't know about best - personally I'd rather live in Western Europe.

[needle ninja]

My mom once told me that money is a fiction. On the personal level it is a measure of accountability, but with governments it doesn't mean anything.

People buy government debt for stability. The more stable a government is, the more attractive its debt is.

Since there are few ways to store money (if you are REALLY rich) buying government debt is attractive.

You could say that the size of national debts reflect the amount of money that someone has, but it is hard to believe. Personally I think that you shouldn't worry about things you cannot control.

[CoLoUr DoTZ]

I agree that the US doesn't have it that bad compared to most of the world but I don't know about best - personally I'd rather live in Western Europe.

 

+1

 

I heard on the news US gave a lesson of democracy to 700 US citizens in Brooklyn bridge this last

weekend...

[Rotwang]

What does that mean?

[Time_Trap]

Nice find.

 

Yes, we are in deep shit. Europe is not better off. Just look at the 400+ billion Euro fund we are now creating to save Greece and other crisis countries.

 

But do we really save Greece? No we don't save Greece - the Greek won't see a cent of the money. We are saving the BANKS who bought the greek assets!

This is all a big SCAM on taxpayer money and at the cost of everyone of the working class - Greeks and other Europeans alike. All to just save the banks.

If we had a last bit of sanity we would send Greece bankrupt.

Why oh why nobody sees this?

 

The really shocking thing is that everybody counts on the crash meanwhile. I don't know anybody who tells me that it will continue like this. Everybody knows! So why not let it be and let the crash happen now instead of having an even bigger one some years from now?!

 

Nice said RTP. Glad to see such a view from your side

 

One note however... Greece is already going bankrupt although that's controlled so as France and Germany are affected as little as possible

[Rotwang]

On the subject of gold:

 

I don't get that either. People see gold as a standard hard currency, and here in the US there has long been criticism over the government's abandonment of the "gold standard" as the physical reality that dollars represent. But what good is gold? Historically it's been a currency because it's pretty and shiny and people like pretty shiny things.

 

No. The two relevant properties of gold are:

 

1) it's rare, and

2) it's inert.

 

1) means that it's possible to assign a value to a certain amount of gold, without worrying that people can cheat the system by getting more gold without first providing something whose perceived value is equal to that of the gold; IOW the most practical way of getting $100 worth of gold is to exchange it for $100 worth of something else.

2) means that it's possible to assign a value to a certain amount of gold, without worrying that any gold you own will stop being gold and therefore lose its value. So these two properties (you can't turn nothing into something, and you can't turn something into nothing) make it ideally suited to acting as a tangible representation of value.

 

I know nothing about economics so the above is just my own guess about why gold is used as a standard currency, but it seems like a pretty self-evident explanation.