what if drugs didn't exist???

[Guest joanna]

have you ever thought..if drugs didn't exist,wiil the things in psychedelic sceane be the same as now..or people being part off this spirit would be less..??could we only feed our brain with music..?i am wondering..

[Guest platigreg]

DEFINITELY !

 

I've never been under any drugs or smoke or alcohol, and I've seen colors in my brain, I've felt shivers with sounds, and I've flown so high with melodies. Why ? Because I want my own "natural" body and mind to make me live.

Nevertheless, I hope artists and musicians who made me feel so good didn't use any of these substances...

 

Greg

[Guest Dark clouds]

I agree,psytrance is crazy enough to feel in another dimension without using junk chemicals

Just let the music drives you and it's far enough beleive me

[Guest hippo]

life would be pretty boring

[Guest Xeruf]

personially I feel that if there was no mind alturing drugs we would all gravitate towards psy music, its the only thing where I know there is science technology and art together to make somthing soo great.

the music is the drug

[Guest v4K]

...or maybe the word psychedelic and it´s whole concept wouldn´t exist at all

[Lemmiwinks]

what a bunch of crap!!! I so hate this "the music and the vibe would all be exactly the same without psychedellics" argument!!! Let me tell you something: acid made the 60s revolution, without it you wouldn't have had so many people talking about peace, love, unity, respect. I mean, sure, you'd always have people thinking like that, but it would've never been such a mass phenomenon. And that's just for the attitude, now let's talk about the music: psytrance relates to psychedellics in 2 ways: first of all, it's a continuation of psychedellic music of the 60s, of course it's very changed today, but the whole concept of multi-layered songs which seem to "take you on a trip" comes from back then. No acid would mean that a lot less artists would've tried to make such music. Again, I'm not saying that NOONE would've thought abut the concept, just that it wouldn't have been such a mass phenomena. Second of all, psytrance comes directly from the hippies that installed themselves in Goa: they listened and promoted the music and artists got their inspiration from the music played there. Without all this, I suppose that talented artists would've still made some interesting form of electronic music, but it sure wouldn't have been goatrance, I assure you!!! And before explaining to everybody how this music is the same with or without psychedellics, I strongly advise you to take a few Es or acid, then go to a goa party, and THEN tell me what's the difference. Before you do, shut the hell up cause you don't know what you're talking about!!! You sound like someone who's never taken a course of physics in his life talking about how Einstein's theory or relatvity isn't such a big deal...

 

 

SMI²LE

[Guest lurk]

right on, lemmiwinks ;-)

[Guest abrahadabra]

would simon posford have started Hallucinogen, if there where no drugs ?

would there be a song called "LSD" ?

and i dont think Hux Flux would sound the same, if he hadent been on influenced.

 

well some of the most important artist for me, where reeeeeaaaaal high on drugs.

[Guest abrahadabra]

would simon posford have started Hallucinogen, if there where no drugs ?

would there be a song called "LSD" ?

and i dont think Hux Flux would sound the same, if he hadent been on influenced.

 

well some of the most important artist for me, where reeeeeaaaaal high on drugs.

[Guest r2d2]

"Let me tell you something: acid made the 60s revolution, without it you wouldn't have had so many people talking about peace, love, unity, respect"

 

I don't agree with your interpretation of history. I'd rather say people being sick and tired of wars (ex. Vietnam) lead to promotion of peace, love etc. Saying that acid made the revolution is ridiculous.

 

 

"I suppose that talented artists would've still made some interesting form of electronic music, but it sure wouldn't have been goatrance,"

 

Hold on big boy. MFG as a group oppose drugs and I'm sure many would agree thay make Goa Trance. I know you like Astral Projection, so I thought it'd be useful to know something about their close cousin (at least as far as sound is concerned) MFG.

 

 

 

"And before explaining to everybody how this music is the same with or without psychedellics, I strongly advise you to take a few Es or acid, then go to a goa party, and THEN tell me what's the difference. Before you do, shut the hell up cause you don't know what you're talking about"

 

 

If you bothered to read carefuly, no one said this music is the same with or without psychedelics. They were merely explaining how they are capable of enjoying this music without drugs, and each one of them does so in their own unique way. I've been into electronic music for more than a decade and the hardest drugs I ever did were beer and wine and I rarely have more than 2 drinks/night. I totally understand those people above, and it seems like you don't which is not a reason to tell them to "shut the hell up". Who the f**k are you to say that?

[Guest r2d2]

"well some of the most important artist for me, where reeeeeaaaaal high on drugs."

 

Does that mean we need to be high to enjoy it? I think NOT.

[Guest r2d2]

Just to clarify by "it" in my previous post I meant "their music".

[Järsimähäiriö]

Your brains: O Your brains after drug-use: o

Your butt-hole: o Your butt-hole in prison: O

[Lemmiwinks]

"Who the f**k are you to say that?"

I'm someone who's been on both sides of the fence. I've been listening to goatrance for 7 years and I've tried psychedellics less than a year ago. Yes, I did apreciate this music a LOT without psychedellics but I can tell you that when you're high, you really feel like it's the first time that you really HEAR the music. Like I said, take an E and put on your favorite album and see for yourself. And yes, people who haven't tried something and tell others that it's not a big deal really piss me off. How can they say that if they haven't tried it themselves??? I'm not just talking just about drugs, so-called "experts" on sects who've never put their foot into one but write books on how their guru is very evil and shouldn't be trusted piss me off too, and I have more examples...

 

too tired now and going to bed, but I'll come back with more tomorow

 

 

SMI²LE

[Guest Dark clouds]

You hippies should be ashamed (Larry 7)

Talking about love peace and blalala,I think psytrance music is a war and violence friendly,when you have deeply disturbed from Infected ,Def by Delta,battlejuice by spirallianz,dark moon in stonehendge by dark soho and lot more I don't think that you will go and kiss an arab and fuck with him,but you feel like a psycho who want to kill and make war,and I like this...feeling!

Drugs are destroying psytrance image around the world,every time I listen to this music people think that I am a cocaine user,which is very hurting for myself and for my music because of a bunch of hippies who can't feel the deepness of a music without drugs

[Guest Dark clouds]

You hippies should be ashamed (Larry 7)

Talking about love peace and blalala,I think psytrance music is a war and violence friendly,when you have deeply disturbed from Infected ,Def by Delta,battlejuice by spirallianz,dark moon in stonehendge by dark soho and lot more I don't think that you will go and kiss an arab and fuck with him,but you feel like a psycho who want to kill and make war,and I like this...feeling!

Drugs are destroying psytrance image around the world,every time I listen to this music people think that I am a cocaine user,which is very hurting for myself and for my music because of a bunch of hippies who can't feel the deepness of a music without drugs

[Guest razzz]

idd dark clouds

i once said to a guy at my last job that i went to goa-parties....his first reaction was "ow....with all the pills and shrooms"

and the guy in question had never been to a goa-party,but he tought of it like it was a party where everyone was on drugs.which is totally not the case. i did use drugs in my first year i went to goa-parties,but i realized that i loved this music so much that i don't need drugs to truely understand it and that the music takes me higher than all the drugs in the world

 

many psy-artists use presets of the hardware they buy.so it is obvious that someone would make music with the presets and get goa-trance as a result of his experimenting with his machine. for every kind of music there is an audience.so i guess goa-trance would exist if there were no drugs....but we wouldn't call it goa-trance.

[Guest razzz]

idd dark clouds

i once said to a guy at my last job that i went to goa-parties....his first reaction was "ow....with all the pills and shrooms"

and the guy in question had never been to a goa-party,but he tought of it like it was a party where everyone was on drugs.which is totally not the case. i did use drugs in my first year i went to goa-parties,but i realized that i loved this music so much that i don't need drugs to truely understand it and that the music takes me higher than all the drugs in the world

 

many psy-artists use presets of the hardware they buy.so it is obvious that someone would make music with the presets and get goa-trance as a result of his experimenting with his machine. for every kind of music there is an audience.so i guess goa-trance would exist if there were no drugs....but we wouldn't call it goa-trance.

[Guest r2d2]

"I'm someone who's been on both sides of the fence. "

 

 

Lemmi, my friend, you are not getting the point again. Maybe it's drugs that shorten your attention span : ) I'm trying to tell you that those people that posted before you, including myself, experience this music in a very special and individual way and we (or at least I) don't want to change it. We (or I) know this is it, it works. I get your point when you say that you experienced life without drugs and now you are on it, but keep in mind that your experiences are very INDIVIDUAL and you can not say the same will be true for others. Therefore, I don't think you should put yourself above others and tell them to "shut the hell up". You know what will work for you but have no clue what will work for them. Do you get my point?

 

I can also start doubting that you never really liked your "favourite" albums because if you did you'd never need drugs to appreciate them, but I will not do that because I don't know you not even close enough to say that.

 

 

I get your point when you used guru examples and such, but that's different and I'll tell you how. Consider these two examples:

 

1) Someone judges a whole group of people based on their membership of a certain cult, labels them "evil", and has little or no first hand information. It's called stereotyping.

 

2) I say I trully appreciate this music. I find it very psychedelic, emotional, it moves me like no other and I'm 100% sober, and there are many people like me, as a matter of fact, quite enough of us to have a scene even if drugs didn't exist.

 

 

Do you understand the difference between what you (example 1) and I (example 2) are talking about?

 

 

BTW One of the saddest things to me is to see someone do drugs because their favourite producer did so. If your (not you Lemmi, this is hypotethical question) favourite producer is Simon Posford and he kills someone, would you kill too?

 

Bottom line, 40-50 years from now I'll still be into music just as much as I am now (If am still alive). Will you do the same with acid?

[Guest r2d2]

"but i realized that i loved this music so much that i don't need drugs to truely understand it and that the music takes me higher than all the drugs in the world :)"

 

 

Right on Razzz I know what you mean.

[Guest soliptic]

i think a lot of u are missing Lemmi's main point

 

> If you bothered to read carefuly, no one said this music is the same with > or without psychedelics. They were merely explaining how they are

> capable of enjoying this music without drugs,

 

this is pretty critical, at least somebody saw the distinction

 

nobody, even Lemmi , is saying that psy without drugs is crappy, or impossible. they are just saying that psy WITH drugs is a different thing again! arguably *better*... but even if u dont want to get bogged down in that discussion, i'm sure we can all agree on *different*.

 

from personal experience... i only ever use alcohol, weed, and shrooms. and shrooms come only once a year. so 90% of the time i'm on nothing but crap hash, and i love psytrance. recently i've run out of money to even buy weed, and i STILL been listening to psy all day and loving it. i have been to parties on nothing stronger than coca cola and loved it....

 

BUT...

 

i also know that when i went to a party and took shrooms it was absolutely revolutionary. honestly, utterly revolutionary. it changes my entire perspective not only on psytrance, but life itself, everything about it.

 

I think Lemmi has a point in saying that if you have never, ever tried psychadelics, you arent really in a position to say it would be just the same. believe me... its not

 

you might think u understand it without drugs, and we're not saying you dont... but "understanding" it is not a simple issue. music is not like some simple coloured sheet of paper which u either see or do not see. its like a diamond or something - you can view it from many angles, or under many different lights, and see many different things each time. obviously without drugs you can still look at many different angles, but i would say that mild psychadelics allow you to see it from whole new angles you would never see otherwise... acid, i dare say, is more like being inside the diamond, and realising its not a diamond, but actually an elephant.

 

hehe.

 

anyway...... in short.... i mainly agree with Lemmi... drugs can give entirely new perspectives on music. without them, i dare say many musicians might never have thought of doing some of the things they have done. and i u havent tried them, you really cant dismiss their genuine potency.

 

at the same time i totally respect people who choose to enjoy the music without them, and nobody is claiming that this is not possible

[Guest Daniel]

Personally....I HATED every single type of electronica...even vocal....I hated it, despised it, I saw NO fucking point, it was garbage to my ears. I wanted to kill myself just by hearing a "techno" song.

 

Then one day I took MDMA, my first REAL drug (besides pot)...then a friend of mine put on some vocal trance (which I hate)....but for some reason I loved it...I felt all of the emotions in the lyrics, every note of the womans voice hit me in a different and deeper way. The melodies and synths, drum work and such pulsed through my body and connected me to the song in such ways that I didn't want it to end. The music became much more than sounds it became a feeling.

 

After that day I kept experimenting with various drugs including, LSD, Mushrooms, and MDMA, but that only lasted a year. I am now sober and have been for quite some time and plan on it for as far into the future as I can see (except alcohol, duh). BUT also after that day I experienced that musical phenomena I became so interested in "Electronica" and I appreciated it for what it was, and everything about it.

 

Now "electronica" is the only style of music I listen to...and I love it while sober, I have such an appreciation for it, and I thank drugs for opening my mind to the qualities which electronic music contain. I have become a fanatic, and I love this genre of music everything from vocal trance, trance, NRG, breakbeat, drum and bass, and most of all PSY-TRANCE!!!!

 

Unfortunately I discovered Psy-Trance AFTER my drug use ended, so I never got to expeirence that altered musical connection to artists like Simon Posford, Infected Mushroom, Astral Projection...well actually that's not true...one time I did, and it was the most amazing musical experience of my life...I was listening to the melodic climax to "Red Filter" by Infected Mushroom while on E and Nitrous Oxide....the things I saw, felt, and heard were beyond this world and I not only heard the music, but I saw it, felt it, and became it...

 

I appreciate drugs for their existence and I encourage people to experiement but they must be cautious and educated before hand because they can suck you into a world that will turn your life in a different direction as it did mine...but luckily I'm a smart kid who stopped earlier than other and decided to turn my focus on the future rather than "at the moment."

 

And just to finish this off....music and drugs have had a big corrolation. Like Lemmiwinks said....the 60's and 70's were HEAVILY transformed and influenced by the use of psychedelics and GOA began with the tripped out drug using hippies and rock stars bringing their ideas to the land of Goa, India.....for all of you who say drugs wouldn't have made a difference you are wrong, or at least very mislead with your concept of this argument.

 

Good night, time for bed.

[Lemmiwinks]

well, with everything that soliptic and Daniel said, I can't think of another argument without giving the feeling that this conversation is turning around in circles... I just reaffirm my statement that you can NOT give your opinion on something you've never tried, I don't care what your arguments are. You can't say that driving is no big deal if you've never driven yourself, you can't say that being a pilot isn't so complicated if you've never been in a plane cockpit and so on. If you REALLY want to give your opinion on something, first try it out and then give your opinion. Untill then all you're doing is talking nonsense. And yes, like soliptic said, I wasn't saying that you can not enjoy goa without drugs (I thought that was clear when I said that I listened to it for 6 years before I did psychedellics...), just that your whole perception of this music changes dramatically and yes, I find it a lot better. Not only that, but then when you're sober, you can recall the way you heard the music when high and see why they made it that way (I'm talking about GMS for example...). Now I'm not some freak who takes acid every day, I only do it about once every 2 months and yes, in between I still discover new music and like it very much. just that when high it's a completely new experience.

 

SMI²LE

[Lemmiwinks]

and the roots of this music and parties go further than the 60s actually... they climb all the way to shamanism and the way they took psychedellic substances and then watched an open fire and had the shaman sing songs which influenced their trips. This is something that's been with us since the beginning of mankind. Goatrance is only the "most refined" form to date. Didn't you ever wonder why only goatrance has so many "feelings" to it: some is dark, some is happy, some is crazy, some is mellow, etc. It's ment to influence your state of mind, and it influences a lot more when you're high. The whole structure of playing dark music during the night and melodic when the sun rises comes from the death- rebirth experience that again was used in sects and mystical societies for ages (try reading some stuff on the Hashishin sect in the 11th century)... Psychedellics aren't just a fad, they've ALWAYS been with human kind and always will be, and without them, human kind would be very very different, believe me.

 

 

SMI²LE