Guest nectarios Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I honestly can't see .. I believe you. You like different things and that is fair enough. You grew up listening to different things or most likely missed out on a lot of things, music and parties that occoured before you started listening to this music, hence your inability to tell the difference. People would get a plastik bottle in the head (without mandy in the water ) for playing such a cheesy tune like that (not that I approved of such behaviour) in the '90s. Times have changed obviously, and a lot of poeple who started going to parties in the new millenium, are the generation that bothers going to parties nowdays and they are mainly people that started listening to this music, in the last decade....but if you were there when it was all happening (outside of Greece mostly...as Greece was infested with the Reload/Nitzo parties), you would understand. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Although I don't get how you got the impression that I'm new in the scene or that the TS track is cheesy or at least cheesier than many Goa tracks or how someone who grew up with the classic sounds (like me) must like the track you posted or why someone who was in the scene back then knows more about psytrance than someone who wasn't or or or let's just say that we agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Although I don't get how you got the impression that I'm new in the scene or that the TS is cheesy or at least cheesier than many Goa tracks or how someone who grew up with the classic sounds (like me) must like the track you posted or why someone who was in the scene back then knows more about psytrance than someone who wasn't or or or let's just say that we agree to disagree. Let's get a few things straight: I didn't say you must like the track I posted, you just said that. I said that you grew up listening to different things or most likely missed out on a lot of things, music and parties that occoured before you started listening to this music...not that you are new to the scene, you just said that. I did not say that someone who was in the scene back then knows more about psytrance, but I agree and I will say it now, someone who has been in the scene and actively following it for decades, does know more about someone who hasn't, especially on the things that took place before we got here. The TS track is cheesy to me, because I grew up listening to music that was a lot deeper than this track, with dark ambiguous spaces, hypnotic drive without the cheesy, all chewed up and ready to digest leads, risers and vibe, hence why it is cheesy to me. I must point out that some people like cheese and that is fair enough. I like some very cheesy pop/funk/rock/hip-hop tunes for example. I just don't like cheese in psytrance as this music is not only a beat for me to dance to, but also a vessel to explore my mind. The only thing I want to explore when I hear cheesy music in trance parties, is the bar, or the forest if I am outdoors. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 "In psytrance, similar observations can be made; “dark”, “morning” and “suomisaundi” are all essentially variations of “full-on”." (from The Local scenes and Global culture of Psytrance, edited by Graham St John, 2010, page 116-117) Edit: Woops, wasn;t actually going to post this, must've posted it by accident. In present "optics" this statement doesn't make much sense, since full-on as well know it today was probably first born with Astrix first album or there about (2002) (funny to hear how little actually have chance since then!!!) and what I think Graham is referring to is the earlier form of full-on like . I guess this also shows there many definitions of "full-on"... on a second note, I really don't see suomisoundi as a evolution of old full-on.... if anything it is evolution of early psy-trance/goa-trance/"aussie-trance"... quite compelling to think when listing to old Shaolin Wooden Men or Psyko Disko anyways... Small example of the differences between psytrance and full on. "video" "video" If you can't spot the difference, you haven't been listening carefully. Peace out. I have to agree with Ormion on this on... both of these tracks are pretty much full-on (and I am not discussing taste). a better example to compare your two full on tracks with a psy-trance track is this one (imo): http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRpVp678zSE all of the tracks have some more clubby elements, but the difference is clear! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just to clarify. I didn't mean that the Master Blasters track is not psytrance. Since for me full on is part of psytrance then it is psytrance. But if I had to classify it in a subgenre I would call it full on. Yes it's different full on than Painkiller for sure, but it's still full on to me. Ok here is a quick sketch of how I see the scene. First it was goa then a branch of it evolved into a new tree* that has its own branches that eventually grow smaller ones and smaller ones, but at the end they all belong to the same tree and both trees have the same root. Don't bother with the subgenres I just put them there to give my example, everyone can make his own branches. * I know that they were artists that produce psytrance in the goa days, but for me the biggest part of psytrance evolved from Goa in 1998-2001 especially in 1999. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraydoG Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ormion - From your sketch there on the dark side, would you be able to give some artist/label examples of what matches twilight the closest please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaISM Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I always find it funny when people into Goa get into total lynch mode every time Full-On is mentioned. Do you know how cheesy most Techno fans think stuff like Astral Projection is? I hang with a few of the guys who used to release stuff on Richie Hawtin's Plus8 records. They burst out laughing whenever someone puts Goa on, and consider the genre genuinely bad taste. The point of no return after which Techno music went to shit. So why not just calm down a little, and realize that Trance as a form of music tends to focus on Melody and Atmosphere. Embrace that fact. No reason to write anything off just to prove a point. I'm sure there's good Full-On out there. Especially for people who can digest the cheese of Goa. Short version: You listen to cheesy music (Goa). Pretending to hate Full-On isn't going to change that fact. Get over it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I honestly can't see .. I believe you. You like different things and that is fair enough. You grew up listening to different things or most likely missed out on a lot of things, music and parties that occoured before you started listening to this music, hence your inability to tell the difference. [...] but if you were there when it was all happening (outside of Greece mostly...as Greece was infested with the Reload/Nitzo parties), you would understand. Peace out. That's one possibility. Another possibility is that you grew up listening to a certain style of music and are consequently unable to separate the music itself from the emotions you experienced during a formative time of your life when that kind of thing was new, whereas a person who started listening psytrance more recently has no particular attachment to or association of happier times with any one style or period and can compare music objectively without his or her critical faculties being impaired by emotions. Still, don't feel too bad - it's not your fault that you're very, very old and probably looking at history through rose-tinted specs that are only made all the more potent by the advanced stages of senile dementia. Peace out. (Yes, I realise that my post is intensely patronising. There's a reason for that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaISM Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 He had it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ormion - From your sketch there on the dark side, would you be able to give some artist/label examples of what matches twilight the closest please? For labels I have to say Timecode, Nexus Media, MMD, Hypergate, Yabai (althought the latest release are a bit cheesy), Digital Psionics (most of their releases). For artists I guess they are dozens of them. Here is a mini list I wrote some time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The more I listened to this stuff that is commonly referred to as psytrance, the more I was realizing that "the" psytrance actually doesn't exist. I don't know if you feel alike, but to me psytrance is a genre (to which also Goatrance does belong to in my opinion ... I was always naming them besides each other as a genre such as "Goa/Psy"). And once you are starting to check out the scene you see that there's a lot of subgenres and sub-sub genres... And with me it was like that the more I dug into it, the more I got immersed in all these sub-genres and was not percieving it as psytrance anymore, but as darkpsy, full on, oldskool, progressive... It might be "psytrance" from a distance, but the closer you come the more detailed the sub-genres get and the less you see the whole picture. "Psytrance" is the tree, the subgenres and sub-subgenres are the branches that get ever more seperated and then the leaves are the songs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 That's one possibility. Another possibility is that you grew up listening to a certain style of music and are consequently unable to separate the music itself from the emotions you experienced during a formative time of your life when that kind of thing was new, whereas a person who started listening psytrance more recently has no particular attachment to or association of happier times with any one style or period and can compare music objectively without his or her critical faculties being impaired by emotions. Still, don't feel too bad - it's not your fault that you're very, very old and probably looking at history through rose-tinted specs that are only made all the more potent by the advanced stages of senile dementia. Peace out. (Yes, I realise that my post is intensely patronising. There's a reason for that.) It could be, if I was living in the past, striving to make the music that was made back then... but I am not living in the past and I am actually living the present, and I do look at the present through rose-tinted specs because it is the first time in my life I get to make the music I've always wanted to hear today, even tho I am inspired by the very happy times of my life back then. So if you're going to be patronising, go ahead and do it properly...saves your time posting a half arsed job at it and me reading it Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 In case you still don't get it, the point is that telling someone that your opinions about music must be right because you've been around longer than he has makes you look rather silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veracohr Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I always find it funny when people into Goa get into total lynch mode every time Full-On is mentioned. Do you know how cheesy most Techno fans think stuff like Astral Projection is? I hang with a few of the guys who used to release stuff on Richie Hawtin's Plus8 records. They burst out laughing whenever someone puts Goa on, and consider the genre genuinely bad taste. The point of no return after which Techno music went to shit. So why not just calm down a little, and realize that Trance as a form of music tends to focus on Melody and Atmosphere. Embrace that fact. No reason to write anything off just to prove a point. I'm sure there's good Full-On out there. Especially for people who can digest the cheese of Goa. Short version: You listen to cheesy music (Goa). Pretending to hate Full-On isn't going to change that fact. Get over it. And step outside the electronic music scene, and you get the people who think all of it, including techno, is cheesey as hell and laughable. In this day and age with so many different styles of music and the ability to share with people all over the world, it's kind of silly to be elitest about it. There's nothing that is 'cool' that isn't 'uncool' to someone else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 In case you still don't get it, the point is that telling someone that your opinions about music must be right because you've been around longer than he has makes you look rather silly. First hand experience of the past, is not rather silly. Throwing your weight around because of such experience is silly. Can you tell the difference?...or do you have some kind of inferiority complex mate? Do you feel threatened or annoyed that some people have been going to parties longer than you have? Does it cramp your style that I have an opinion of my own? Did I tell you or Ormion what you guys should like or not like? I didn't, yet you are making up your own conclusions on what I am saying, without actually reading what I am saying. I am missing the point? That is not an argument, that's a distraction. Relax and try actually reading my posts. By the way if you are you presenting this award to me you are correct having a dick signed on left Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaISM Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 And step outside the electronic music scene, and you get the people who think all of it, including techno, is cheesey as hell and laughable. In this day and age with so many different styles of music and the ability to share with people all over the world, it's kind of silly to be elitest about it. There's nothing that is 'cool' that isn't 'uncool' to someone else. And that is exactly my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 First hand experience of the past, is not rather silly. Right. Throwing your weight around because of such experience is silly. Right. Can you tell the difference? Yes. You've been doing the latter. ...or do you have some kind of inferiority complex mate? Do you feel threatened or annoyed that some people have been going to parties longer than you have? No, I don't care in the slightest. You're the one who brought it up in the first place despite it being completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, so apparently you're the one with some kind of complex about it. Does it cramp your style that I have an opinion of my own? No, why would it? Does it cramp your style that Ormion has an opinion of his own? Apparently it cramps it enough that you feel the need to start bragging about how old you are. Did I tell you or Ormion what you guys should like or not like? No. Instead you told Ormion that he's unable to properly understand music because he hasn't been around as long as you. That made you look like a twat. I didn't, yet you are making up your own conclusions on what I am saying, without actually reading what I am saying. I have read everything you've written ITT. I am missing the point? That is not an argument, that's a distraction. Look, while we're on the subject of things that are not arguments, "you just can't understand music as well as I can because I've been listening to it for longer than you so ner ner ner" is not an argument. I like arguments. If you have some arguments to support your opinion then go ahead and post them. But telling someone that their perception of music is wrong and yours right because you've been listening to it for longer than they have isn't an argument, it's being an elitist jerk. Relax and try actually reading my posts. How about you try reading your posts instead? In particular, read this one. If you really can't tell how badly you come across in that post then that's because you most likely missed out on a lot of things, arguments that occoured before you started reading this website, hence your inability to tell the difference. People would get a plastik bottle in the head for posting such a cheesy post like that in the '00s. But if you were there when it was all happening, you would understand. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCrow Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It would be interesting to see this same discussion in a face-to-face scenario. Eye contact, body-language, facial expressions, smiling, handing over of penis certificates etc. I doubt it would be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 No, why would it? Does it cramp your style that Ormion has an opinion of his own? Apparently it cramps it enough that you feel the need to start bragging about how old you are. Does it look like it cramps my style when I say: I believe you. You like different things and that is fair enough. No. Instead you told Ormion that he's unable to properly understand music because he hasn't been around as long as you. That made you look like a twat.It makes me look like a twat if Ormion can't tell the difference between the tracks I posted? Check your self before you wreck your self mate. And I look like a twat because I have been around long enough? Do you think I expect people to like only what I like? Look, while we're on the subject of things that are not arguments, "you just can't understand music as well as I can because I've been listening to it for longer than you so ner ner ner" is not an argument. I like arguments. If you have some arguments to support your opinion then go ahead and post them. But telling someone that their perception of music is wrong and yours right because you've been listening to it for longer than they have isn't an argument, it's being an elitist jerk. You're repeating your self. Its getting tiring now. How about you try reading your posts instead? In particular, read this one. If you really can't tell how badly you come across in that post then that's because you most likely missed out on a lot of things, arguments that occoured before you started reading this website, hence your inability to tell the difference. People would get a plastik bottle in the head for posting such a cheesy post like that in the '00s. But if you were there when it was all happening, you would understand. Peace out. I come across badly because I said Ormoin would understand better if he didn't miss out on a lot of things and by the way I don't even know the guy or what he has witnessed, I did say that the difference is obvious and its not because I am elitist, cause in that case everyone I know that have shared the ride along the years, would also get bottled on psynews (lol) because they can tell how different the music is, in order to like/dislike the new full on that is out there...not because my definition of psytrance is superior, but because it is very different, if that makes me come across bad, then it is your problem. By the way I am not that old, I am 34 years young...although answering to your bubbling makes me feel a lot younger...like 10 years old...so I will stop bothering with your ill reading skills. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Look man the whole debate started when you wrote one specific phrase. This one You grew up listening to different things or most likely missed out on a lot of things, music and parties that occoured before you started listening to this music, hence your inability to tell the difference. First you assumed that I'm new in the scene and missed many of the old stuff. I never said such thing. I may be older in the scene than you (I'm not, but you didn't know it). But the most important was the hence your inability to tell the difference. I don't have any inability. And what's most important is that even if I had discovered psytrance the last year I would still be able to tell the difference. What your post pretty much says is that if someone is new to the scene is unable to tell the difference between full on or psytrance and only someone who was in the scene back in '94 can. Which is ridiculous. For many reasons. One of them is that back in 94 there wasn't any full on...or psytrance. Anyway. Then you said something even more ridiculous like a Twisted System track is so cheesy that ppl back then would throw a bottle at the dj playing this track, but let's say that taste is taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ormion, which part of "You grew up listening to different things or most likely missed out on a lot of things" didn't you understand? And I have seen DJs getting a platik bottle in the head. I know of people got stones thrown towards the DJ booth in Goa for playing cheesy music. It is ridiculous to say what took place somewhere at some point? Did I not say that I do not approve of such behaviour? Stop twisting my words and/or taking them out of context. I have said that different people like different things and that it is fair enough that you like what you like, more than once...So you like a certain style of music yet some people think the music you like, is shit, so what? ...anyway, this has just got boring. Good night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Does it look like it cramps my style when I say: I believe you. You like different things and that is fair enough. No. It looks like it cramps your style when you say: You grew up listening to different things or most likely missed out on a lot of things, music and parties that occoured before you started listening to this music, hence your inability to tell the difference. People would get a plastik bottle in the head (without mandy in the water ) for playing such a cheesy tune like that (not that I approved of such behaviour) in the '90s. Times have changed obviously, and a lot of poeple who started going to parties in the new millenium, are the generation that bothers going to parties nowdays and they are mainly people that started listening to this music, in the last decade....but if you were there when it was all happening (outside of Greece mostly...as Greece was infested with the Reload/Nitzo parties), you would understand. No. Instead you told Ormion that he's unable to properly understand music because he hasn't been around as long as you. That made you look like a twat.It makes me look like a twat if Ormion can't tell the difference between the tracks I posted? No, that isn't what I said at all. It makes you look like a twat when you tell Ormion that he's unable to properly understand music because he hasn't been around as long as you, as I said. Can you tell the difference? And I look like a twat because I have been around long enough? Again, no. That isn't what I said at all. You're repeating your self. If you insist on ignoring what I wrote and pretending I wrote something completely different then it's necessary for me to repeat what I actually wrote. If you don't like repetition then try reading what I write the first time I write it. I come across badly because I said Ormoin would understand better if he didn't miss out on a lot of things and by the way I don't even know the guy or what he has witnessed, And yet you wrote as if you did. By the way I am not that old, I am 34 years young... I don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaISM Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Seems like nectarios attained his communication skills at his local Scientology church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 lol You insist on believing that I told Ormoin that he does not undersand music because he hasn't been around as long as I have when I said (and for the last time) "You grew up listening to different things or most likely missed out on a lot of things" Rotwang and Gagaism, knock your selfs out back to kindergarden if it makes you feel any better. I have more important things to do that geek my self out of my tits on internet forum fights when I quote my self, yet you answer back in denial. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathmandu Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 For me and I know for many others, even Ultimae records, OTT, Shulman etc is psytrance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.