how do you bounce Master track in Ableton?

[ermize]

Hii!

 

I'm producing with Live 8 and I've some serious problems bouncing the Master Track...

I tried with two teks and the only difference is the input setting (step 2) :

 

1) Create an audio track

2a) Put the input as 'Master'

or

2b) Put the input as 'Resampling'

3) Turn off the track

4) Set Monitor to 'In'

5) Arm and record!

 

and with these 2 teks I get some weird issues:

- if I put Master as input, the bounced track will be lower in volume

- if I put Resampling as input, the bounce track will be a bit delayed

 

soooo

How do you bounce your Master Track?

[LuisBSF]

Recording the master can be problematic as you could create a feedback loop by accident and blow up that corner of your house. Resampling as input definitely should cover your needs. Can't say I ever noticed any delays but if you want to ensure perfect sync you could add an utility plugin on the recorded channel inverting both L and R phases. Then alter the start of that clip (or the track delay on that channel) until you get total cancellation . This might not work 100% if you have plugins running which vary randomly over time (you should at least be able to cancel out the kickdrum though). Once you get them aligned just turn off the utility plugin.

 

One thing with resampling: you will need to boost the recording by the same amount of negative decibels you have on the master at the moment of recording to reach the same level.

 

Or you can just export the tune? That might be a lot quicker than recording.

 

What are you trying to do?

[ermize]

 

Or you can just export the tune? That might be a lot quicker than recording.

 

 

ouch!you are right! I can simply export the tracks

 

I'm trying to bounce the master track just to apply some effects at the end of phrase.

And I made a mistake because is not the master track but a Group Track made of Kick-Bass-HiHats-Percussion and some more synths.

 

Till now I grouped all these tracks and routed them to a return channel as 'Send Only', so I could have a channel with only the Base Tracks and there I can apply filter, grain delay and all the crazy stuff.

 

Thanks a lot for your advice LuisBSF!

 

and just for curiosity.. how do you apply effects on the Base track?

[LuisBSF]

Sure, but could you elaborate on what you mean by "base" track? You mean "bass" instead, as in kick+bass, or something different?

[ermize]

I mean Kick + Bass + Hi-Hats + Percussion (maybe backbone is a more appropriate term )

[LuisBSF]

Aah I get ya. No, there's no term as far as I'm aware - the backbone of a tune is what you consider it to be, no more and no less

 

I organise my channels in a different manner, via groups: kick and bass the first one, percussion, leads, pads, FX and another for anything not fitting on the other groups.

 

The only group in which I apply any processing as a whole is the kick and bass group in which I place a compressor to gel both instruments together in punch and level. Slow attack (15ms+) and quick release should take care of this allowing the transients to come through unscathed. Perhaps a tube emulator such as twisthead afterwards with very mild settings to thicken up things, depending on the sounds used, but not so strong as to cause bad distortion.

 

What version of Ableton are you using? From version 8 you have channel groups available, which in effect is what you're emulating by sending all that audio on to the same return channel. You can group channels by selecting one or more, then CTRL+G.

 

A group is essentially an audio channel of its own. When you group channels, Ableton changes the routing of those channels to dump audio on to the group instead of the master (the group then sends summed audio to the master after any FX).

 

Edit: just re-read your original post and yeah you're using Ableton 8 so groups are available

[ermize]

Yes! I use Groups! an probably it's better to say: I abuse of groups

I work in IT and I tend to group whatever and in Ableton I follow the same path.. group group group...

I used to have 8 groups (for APC40 purpose)

 

and with your advice you made me realize a weird thing I do:

- Group Kick+Bass+HiHat

- Route the group o a send channel as a sends only..

It simply has no sense...the effects can be applied directly on the group

Thanks a lot for your advice and the compressor trick! I'm going to make some cleaning in my projects..

 

But what I'd like to know if you bounce your 'Backbone' group...and if yes, how do you make it?

Some friends of mine used to bounce the Backbone and then apply effects and whatever...

Bouncing this group of track let you more freedom to make crazy stuff, for example you can pass the bounce through effectrix and then bounce again and effectrix again..

[LuisBSF]

I can think of three ways of doing so. It depends whether you want to record any FX from return channels or not:

• create a new audio track, set its input to your "backbone" group, hit record and play. This won't pick up any return channel output.
• on the menu to export to audio, one of the first options is a drop down with a choice of master, groups and channels - allows you to render to file whatever you select in there. I'm not 100% certain but I think this won't pick up return channel output when you select anything other than the master. Worth experimenting though, as I seldom use this feature and I might very well be wrong. Make sure you export into 32 bit audio so that you can apply gain changes on the resulting file without loss of audio resolution.
• what you were doing already: audio track on resampling, record and play. This will definitely pick up return channels, for as long as they aren't silenced. I use this a lot whenever I'm readying a new tune for the live set and works well. Just keep in mind to increase the gain on the recorded clip by the same amount of negative decibels on the master when you recorded it to bring it up to the same level as the rest of the tune.

There's a fourth option which is adding your FX on the master then use automation, but you're probably tried this already and found it to be inflexible and fiddly, or otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

Hope this helps

[ermize]

Sure!it helps

 

I just tried the 3 ways recording a small clip..and I found a weird thing.

Here is the Rendered clip (it's 1Mb):

http://depositfiles....files/2dkv1fjf5

 

I grouped Kick and Bass and then I tried the three way:

- Recording the group in an audio track setting the input to the Backbone group

- Rendering the Backbone group @ 32bit

- Resampling the Backbone group

 

and the 3 waves starts at different points...is it a bit strange?

 

 

[ermize]

After trying, tweaking and listening, I found the better way is exporting audio @ 32 bit

and googling about Ableton I found that this DAW has a timing problem with resampling.

 

Thanks again Luis for your help!..

 

and I know this is offtopic but it's really funny.. we are going to play at the same party in Spain [MIGTUOSITY] in a few weeks

[LuisBSF]

Just having a look at those waveforms and by the looks of them all 3 of them seem perfectly in phase with a slightly different attack time - more than a timing problem I'd say the differences in attack between the three of them could be related to a plugin on whatever you're recording which has a random component on its behavior, hence the waveform is slightly different on each take. I wouldn't worry too much and in any case you know the timing issue could present itself, so you can be vigilant to it

 

 

we are going to play at the same party in Spain [MIGTUOSITY] in a few weeks

Looks that way! Looking forward to meeting you

[ermize]

Just having a look at those waveforms and by the looks of them all 3 of them seem perfectly in phase with a slightly different attack time - more than a timing problem I'd say the differences in attack between the three of them could be related to a plugin on whatever you're recording which has a random component on its behavior, hence the waveform is slightly different on each take. I wouldn't worry too much and in any case you know the timing issue could present itself, so you can be vigilant to it

 

you are right ..it's not a timing problem..

and yesterday I had a lot of fun exporting the backbone, putting some effects, glitch, exporting again and so on...crazy!!

thanks Luis! see you soon