Procyon Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I read some years ago a book (I can't remember the title!!!) on a FBI report studying the effects of alcohol on crime. Making a long story short, teenagers who are introduced to beer soon will probably start smoking cigarretes (while all those who started smoking first will eventually drink something very strong), a high percentage will then start drinking more frequently, and inside this number of smokers/chain drinkers, another high percentage will start making use of either marijuana or even stronger substances, depending on the geographics. At this point those who are "dysfunctional" will commit their first crime, usually pet theft. From there in a span of a few years, they will commit their first serious crime: robbery, rape, dealing, etc...And at this point, if the MO is associated with some brain dysfunction, is where a high percentage of "serial killers" will start appearing in FBI profiles related to brutal crimes (involving blood bath or cyber robberis, there's a huge spectrum of what is considered a "brutal crime" to FBI and other agencies). This continuos chain of legal/illegal drugs illustrates how an "innocent" drug, such as pot can be a door to a crime in later part of life. Of course, this is not the rule, but the exception. From a legal point of view, it's the parameter from which most laws are created (that's why a small quantity of pot can put someone behind bars in some states). I mentioned heroin, but any other drug could be mentioned. Here in Brazil people are smoking Colombian or Bolivian crack at parties along with taking X. I don't know how it makes in US and Europe. But Brazilian Police reckons that the vast majority of reported crimes nowadays are related to crack dealers and users, to the point that the federal administration is now creating a program to deal with specifically with crack alone. I have experienced this recently: last year a 20-yo man broke into our lounge and stole some valuables, when he was caught he had crack stones in his possession. Have you ever seen those movies about Detroit neighboorhods where you can't walk streets anymore? That is how some rich Brazilian cities are looking like. Police says that crack users are now starting using a even more potent drug called onyx, which causes even more dependence, they think it's a matter of time until heroin debuts here. As much as drugs are part of the electronic music scene, this is not an excuse to close your eyes to it and say it's OK. IMO. I don't doubt Ozora and Boom will eventually be closed down. Haven't this happened in England? The country whose creativity gave us acid house, trance, now can't have parties, or so I read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Just to make things clear a bit. Yeah, the current ruling party (FIDESZ) here is a right wing one but it is not a far-right or extreme one! They used to be a liberal, democratic party at the time of the regime change but now they are part of the national conservative branch. Yes, they are a populist party (which is one of the main reasons I despise them) and they have been widely criticized for the numerous laws they passed in order to gain more power and create a highly centralized government since they won the last election. To tell you the truth, I'm also worried about its anti-democratic tendencies as lots of fellow Hungarians do but I would not call them an extreme political power. It is true that we have a radical nationalist party (Jobbik) having the third largest following, which is a shame, I don't like it either. But they are not a governing party. At least not yet and I hope it stays like that. Unfortunatelly, our political powers seem to have the tendency to fuck up things majorly even to discredit themselves big time and FIDESZ is not an exception (as in most post-Soviet countries, corruption has always been a relevant issue here). This year I chose not to attend the festival (the main reason being: I didn' t like the line-up the new organizers had come up with). I had a wonderful time last year, and I'm very glad that, as things seem right now, I was part of the last Ozora experience. According to the last news: there is a chance that the local authorities may cancel the festival. Of course I don't know anything sure about the future of the festival, all I know is that the raid got a pretty nice mainstream media coverage. At this point the news is that the raid was because of a right-wing television station's denouncement, a TV channel which is considered to be the mouthpiece of Fidesz. There is not much optimism here about the party scene in general. There were a tragedy at a party lately (three young girls died in a mass-panic), which was blown-up by the media (and led to generalizations of course) and served as a great excuse to come at parties with full force of the law. So we'll se what will happen... Thanks for clearing that up. But it is really sad to see what happens in Hungary (no matter if the party is extreme right or not) with a democratic party trying to turn power to them,self and away from the people who voted for them (and everybody else)... as we have seen it in Russia (a horrific example btw) and now see it in a EU member state... makes me sad! And those kind of populist manipulating parties thrive on events like the drug-raids and what not... and for that sole reason I don't like it to happen, not because I feel the drug-dealers should have any special treatment... and I seriously think that the organizers should do way more to control things and not let them come out of hand!!! @Monahium: don't get me wrong. Alcohool is as prejudicial as illegal drugs, more perhaps. Cannabis should be legallized, at least for medicinal use. Problem is that marijuana is the door to stronger drugs, heroin for instance, that cause no benefit at all. So, IMO: alcohool is a drug and should be treated as such. Cannabis should be legallized. Though I don't know what is worse, a drunk guy or a stoned guy. This augment is very popular, but as I see it totally pointless. The only thing that links cannabis with other drugs (now excluding alcohol) is the illegality of it... It's the human nature/culture of escaping everyday routings (or what ever reasons) that make people drink, smoke and what not. And for most drug addicts its connected to their childhoods (in some way or another) and not the fact that drugs exist that makes them addicts to drugs and for others food ect. as Rotwang also discussed. So I think if you want to make that argument it has to relate to intoxication in general (of any kind of substance) and then you have to think if the problem is the drugs or the society?! I thinks it a very complicated matter that is very often (well basically always) simplified to non-sense in the general media and of course politics (more worryingly), and the basic question of why do people in the first place chance from being drug users to drug-addicts will never be answered and addressed in this way, hence nothing will change for the better! And something like this also goes for your FBI study... do you think they would consider the social backgrounds or parental relations as a confounder in such a study?! These kind of studies are very difficult to understand even for the people who make them, the underlaying factors are many and intertwined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathmandu Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 and meanwhile in ozora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drosophila Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Ahhh hahaha!! Awesome!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 @procyon according to your logic (or rather the FBI's logic), beer is the gateway to serious crimes and herion addiction. consequently it should be outlawed, right? i hate alcohol and have never found a beverage to be as foul tasting as beer, but i'd stand up for the right to drink beer. freedom is not something to just give up, it's something we have to fight for. btw: crack is pretty much nonexistent here in central europe. illegalisation has never solved any problems, it only ruins the lives of users, puts loads of money into the hand of the criminals controlling the drug trade. it creates violence and crime by making fights over territorry/supply routes profitable and by making addicts have to resort to crime to support their habit. ozora has always been a place of peace, love and freedom, completely free from the oppression we experience almost the whole rest of the year. if we let them take the freedom to take drugs (regardless if you would take drugs yourself or if you despise them), i'm sure they'll move on to the next thing. in a few years it wouldn't be different than any other huge commercial festival: limits on loudness, limits on how many consecutive hours there can be music on the mainstage, metal gates and mandatory searches every few hundred meters, a huge army of agressive security personnel to enforce this, rise in prices and advertising all over the place to finance the whole festival security, .... i think that's not what we want — at least that's not what i want when i think of a good psy festival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prog4all Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 This is the latest news: "Four foreigners attending a festival near Ozora, SW Hungary, were arrested for suspected drug abuse during a police raid on Thursday, national police spokesman Laszlo Garamvolgyi told a press conference on Friday. Another 39 festival-goers were taken into temporary custody and a large amount of drug-like substances as well as plenty of tools required for dosing, distributing and consuming drugs were confiscated, he said. There was a special "drug street" with inscriptions indicating on the caravans what drugs were offered for sale inside, the spokesman said. The national police chief has withdrawn the mandate of the police chief of nearby Sarbogard without giving any reason for the decision, said Garamvolgyi. The festival is mostly attended by foreigners." http://www.caboodle.hu/nc/news Btw, I would like to make it clear that with this thread my intentions are not to stereotype the psytrance community, or give a bad name to it. I'm sure most of you understand this, it can't hurt saying it though. The reason I made this thread is because if I wanted to go to Ozora next year, I would of liked to be informed of what could take place. That's all. The psytrance community is the kindest most positive minded community's I have ever been involved in. And don't forget, at Techno, House, Hardcore parties of whatever, has it's main drug issues also. I just don't get why only psytrance seems to be associated with drugs. If someone thinks that drug users are only at psy parties, you should visit some different genres also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 @padmapani: The paper I read wasn't about the legalization. It only dealt with the psycho and social aspects of drugs. I see this way: people tend to recur to philosophy, agencies recur to pragmatism, about drugs. In between philosophy and pragmatism there's an imperfect, real world, where neither laws nor freedom are used in the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 In the end, the 500 police officers were a fantasy of a crazy brain - people are saying there were only a couple of POs just like every year, they busted some really heavy drug dealers that had placards with prices, how-to-get-there maps and what not. Not a smart market strategy, in a strict country like Hungary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Drugs will always be part of certain type of festivals, events or shows. This includes psy-trance, of course. I have been doing drugs at festivals since the 80s and they make it a lot, and I mean a lot, more interesting. To expect thousands of people to come to a psy-trance and to have no drug dealing or drug use going on, is like going to a church service and expect to see no praying. How much authorities choose to crack down on this behaviour and on these festivals in general is contingent on and affected by all sorts of factors. But if they want to really crack down, there is plenty of scope to do so. And not only at festivals. There is a lot that could still be done, and which is not. For example, police could easily put drug dogs at the doors of major nightclubs. In fact, London police already do drug dog stop points outside certain tube stations on some weekends - lovely! We are lucky that on average, the festivals are fairly easy going. But at the same time, a little bit more care from some of us would be helpful. Being too obvious about the drugs does not make festival promoters' lives any easier. It seems to me that the Hungarian police's hand was forced due to the TV report. They had to do something and this has nothing to do with the Fidiesz party in power, even if its leader is a real nutcase. According to friends who were there, the whole police action, although unpleasant and unwelcome, wasn't completely over the top. Inevitably, there were some unfortunate victims, the police could not go back empty-handed. What does bother me is the thought (hopefully untrue) that perhaps some of the people who left the Ozora organisation during the bust-up ahead of this year's party, may have had something to do with it. Pedro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Yep, I've been there and seen it happen with my own eyes... First of all, people were actually putting big signs with "We sell drugs" on their cars, I mean how stupid could you be, OF COURSE the cops are gonna come if you do this!!! This is an actual pic that I took at the party: Second of all, they didn't arrest small dealers but memebers of a big international drug cartel that already escaped arrest once... Believe me, after the cops were gone there were still plenty of drugs around, just that people were (FINALLY) more discreet about it. So for me, those people bought it on themselves, I'm not gonna comment on drugs at festivals cause after all as long as you'll have parties you'll also have plenty of illegal substances going around but how stupid can you be to put a big "we sell drugs" sign, especially when you know that the cops are after you and not expect to get arrested??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 @pedro: nice post. Ditto Lemmi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ion1zed Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 What does bother me is the thought (hopefully untrue) that perhaps some of the people who left the Ozora organisation during the bust-up ahead of this year's party, may have had something to do with it. Pedro Uh, really? I never heard of such rumors before...I thought the whole "split-up" happened on friendly terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prog4all Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 I agree with you guys, it is definitely something to be discreet about. But I read a short story on the Ozora festival website and someone was basically saying that the police used unnecessary action against them. He was talking about getting kicked in the balls and slapped in the face by police officers, for only having 0,6 g weed. You guys should take a look at think link, don't know if it's true but if it is, it's a shame. http://www.ozorafestival.eu/index.php?Category_id=4&pageid=12&mywbForumFrontCtrlAction=Topic&mywbForumTopic_id=252&mywbForumTopicFrontCtrlAction=Item Anyway, the picture of the drugs sign is definitely not a good thing. I think people at parties should be able to discus things with each other, when it comes to drugs. It should be more open and friendly. These days, if you would ask someone to put there sign away, you wouldn't know what to expect. In my country there are many drug dealers at parties (this goes for just about all music). It wouldn't be a good idea to just tell them to stop what there doing because there to open with it, not all of them would appreciate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Uh, really? I never heard of such rumors before...I thought the whole "split-up" happened on friendly terms. This is not a rumour and it is certainly not my intention to start one. Nor am I suggesting that this was due to the disenchanted people who left the organisation. I am saying is that I do hope it was not, and by that I do mean that this is a worrisome possibility that has crossed my mind. At the same time (and for the avoidance of doubt), if I was going to hazard a guess, I would say that it is probably more likely that it was NOT due to the organisational differences ahead of the festival. Hope this clears up any confusion. Pedro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I agree with you guys, it is definitely something to be discreet about. But I read a short story on the Ozora festival website and someone was basically saying that the police used unnecessary action against them. He was talking about getting kicked in the balls and slapped in the face by police officers, for only having 0,6 g weed. You guys should take a look at think link, don't know if it's true but if it is, it's a shame. http://www.ozorafest...CtrlAction=Item hmm somehow I doubt that, of course there was open hostility towards the police, people would openly whistle and give them the finger, not to mention all the "fuck the police" signs written on the dust-covered cars, given the reaction of the crowd, the police action was actually very tame IMO. Since the cops were in full riot gear, they looked intimidating indeed but they could've gone MUCH further like have some cops dressed in civilians ask around for drugs and later arresting the drug sellers, I suppose like half the Ozora participants could've gotten arrested that way. They didn't even use sniffer dogs... This way, only the really big (and stupid) dealers got busted so IMO we shouldn't complain too much. I think many more people got problems crossing the border out of Hungary than at the festival itself... The boarder police asked me "Are you coming from Ozora?" and I'm like "Huh, Ozora, what's that?", I had half a gram of K on me and he just let me pass hehehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prog4all Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 hmm somehow I doubt that, of course there was open hostility towards the police, people would openly whistle and give them the finger, not to mention all the "fuck the police" signs written on the dust-covered cars, given the reaction of the crowd, the police action was actually very tame IMO. Since the cops were in full riot gear, they looked intimidating indeed but they could've gone MUCH further like have some cops dressed in civilians ask around for drugs and later arresting the drug sellers, I suppose like half the Ozora participants could've gotten arrested that way. They didn't even use sniffer dogs... This way, only the really big (and stupid) dealers got busted so IMO we shouldn't complain too much. I think many more people got problems crossing the border out of Hungary than at the festival itself... The boarder police asked me "Are you coming from Ozora?" and I'm like "Huh, Ozora, what's that?", I had half a gram of K on me and he just let me pass hehehehe Yes, I see what you mean. I know it's not a good thing to just believe everything they put up on the internet, but perhaps some people experienced situations that weren't exactly like the police in there own country. With 1000's of people and 100's of cops, there is always a incident somewhere I bet. And undercover police is indeed the worse, you don't know what to expect at that stage. Glad to hear from you that it didn't go as far as it could. And I'll remember never to tell border cops I'm coming from Ozora, if I still ever decide to go there that is hehe. Maybe just see how it goes the coming 2 years with the festival. As far as the police goes no matter how the situation was there, I think for a lot of people who would usually go to Ozora the next time, have found the choice to go to a different psytrance festival to be more easy. This does scare away people, which is still a shame. But I agree, it could of been worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I am glad to hear something like this. PS. I don't care if someone want do drugs but as you say they should do at home. Total bullshit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoptes Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I agree. You should be able to partake as long as you are not causing a ruckus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amithaba_buddha Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Concerning drugs (chemical compounds most of them found in nature or scientifically altered and forbidden by the governments) it's all a matter of how you see it. It's a very personal aspect , so each one on his/her own. A pharmacy sells drugs. People drink alcohol . Anything can become a gateway to another or not. Don't think that matters much if you start drinking and then jumping to another things (unless there's proof) , someone could go straight for some heavy drug and probably not even smoking tobacco (an example). It's always a personal choice and view and should be taken in mind what it is , the risks and taken with responsibility. I'm neutral in this aspect , people are free to do whatever they want (except hurting themselves and others). Regarding the Law , people know the risks involved , so each one on it's own. Sorry to hear that about Ozora , certainly the festival should not end because the police found some people with drugs , but seems that unfortunately that's how they work , some people end up losing the festival because of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyphreak Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 that is a ridiculous thing to say, is like saying that you ended up drinking alcohol because you started with milk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyphreak Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Problem is that marijuana is the door to stronger drugs, heroin for instance, that cause no benefit at all. that is a ridiculous thing to say, is like saying that you ended up drinking alcohol because you started with milk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Must we resurrect this thread? I thought it had run its course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 If I want to do drugs on my own risk without selling or giving to another that's my choice, nothing to do with music imo... If I want to get high (has been a while, but still) I'll get high!!!!!!!! Where I want, how I want to and how many I want, as long a I don't disturb anyone, Not a thousand cops will stop that!!!!!, Not in this life or another... I've got caught several times by the cops in the past doing drugs, and paid the fine without complaining, but that will never stop me doing it... And I don't even care about other opinions, It's my body and my mind. That's my last freedom! Good luck with that @Monahium: don't get me wrong. Alcohool is as prejudicial as illegal drugs, more perhaps. Cannabis should be legallized, at least for medicinal use. Problem is that marijuana is the door to stronger drugs, heroin for instance, that cause no benefit at all. If the so called step stone theories were true I should have at my age (30) more then 25 friends on heroin... None of them are, didn't even try it, and dislike it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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